Literary Clusterfucks 2013

You guys should relax. Jon and I are both idiots posting on a message board. No one wants to read our posts. We are having a shitfit. If he or I decide that we don't like the thread we can derail it at any time.

― Mordy, Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:57 PM

Oh no, this poor thread being derailed.

True, and only the victim of this particular narrative could speak for herself in this. But I believe that being an abuser who keeps someone around as an emotional punching bag, who digs down for the things that are most foundational to that person's sense of self and then pressures them with digs and criticism sessions and withholding affection and giving affection but only for a price and all kinds of cruel manipulation, to deform them until they're willing to give up whatever they love either to win some kind of love from you or just to make you stop. And all of this effort on your part is just to see if you can make them do it, like as a TEST? That is fundamentally different than saying mean stuff about someone.

I agree completely but I don't think that's a perspective one is going to arrive at unprompted without having experienced that in a situation they felt they couldn't escape, such as a romantic relationship or sibling/parental abuse. It's one of the reasons why "sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me" is such a popular little saying.

Defining verbal abuse as saying mean things is sort of like...it's basically the same as defining rape as just wanting to have sex with someone? Or something. I don't know. But it leaves the POWER aspect out, and since power is the whole point, you can't accurately describe the abusive behavior without it.

I'm grateful that we can now have to a public conversation about rape that in general acknowledges that it's not a crime of sex but one of power/dominance. That is a more accurate direction to go in, better for identifying contributing factors, better for prevention, better for diagnosing the social ill, etc. Verbal and emotional abuse have exactly that same quality, and we should be having that kind of conversation about them as well.

Okay now my head is spinning a bit even more because NOW she's deleted the tweet (and FB post) explaining why she deleted the blogpost.

xp: Again, I agree; what I am trying to say is that it is easier for an external onlooker to disassociate the power aspect from verbal abuse than it is to disassociate it from physical or sexual abuse, largely because there is an overt, tangible expression of that power in the form of physical violence, and I believe that impacts the "seriousness" for lack of a better word that people in general impart to verbal abuse. It's part of why people get so cruel in comment sections or on messageboards, or why some people really don't believe some forms of bullying are a serious problem.

I know, we agree! :) But like I said, it is interesting to see who picks up on that aspect and who sticks RAPE right up at the top of the pile of problems with just everything about this situation.

I get the three different levels thing but to read about that level of sustained and premeditated emotional abuse going on for so long and then go "whoa we should totally not assume that any sexual abuse happened just because this woman said so" like the former was just fine (both for the guy to have done and for the reader to take at face value, if you really feel the latter claim must be protested) but it's some kind of crazy leap between the two... that seems weird and uncomfortable.

xps sorry, just wandering in late and agreeing with everyone while sounding like I disagree

I think it's pretty obvious right now that her publisher is putting mad pressure on her not to put out anything negative about this book.

the thing that was so chilling to me about her situation was his insistence on keeping her away from her family and her son --- that motivation comes from such an infuriatingly weak ego, and yet it creates a space for so much more power to be wielded once that's achieved. I mean, I've heard stories from friends over the years and when that is part of the narrative, you know that it's going to get really bad, really quickly from that point onwards. divide and conquer, etc.

What I am having most trouble with is the fact that she obviously has, at best, severe misgivings about both this relationship in particular and the type of relationship it represents more generally -- and yet she is still gamely going out promoting this book that presents this relationship and this type of relationship as something revelatory and fulfilling. From all the reviews it sounds like she's being prescriptive -- ladies, you need a cowboy! -- but she has acknowledged that what she's prescribing is unhealthy and maybe dangerous. That's not just dishonest, it's irresponsible.

^ OTM

My problem also, hence way way at ths start where I said I hated the idea of the book because of this whole 50 shades submissive bullshit. It has to stop, because its reality is what she's (purportedly) gone thru as a result!

tipsy, I would hazard a guess that her options right now are either continue to play along on some version of the publicity & promotion agreement or be prepared to break contract and deal with the consequences, possibly involving demands that she return all or part of the advance. I think the blog post from yesterday was her attempt to break with the viewpoint of the book, it certainly read like it was?

Yeah I'm still having a hard time with the fact that here is a 43-year-old educated liberal woman and longtime professional author who has even been married before (supposedly to a perfectly nice, non-abusive guy) who suddenly decided to buy into an absurd domineering cowboy fantasy, pitched a book about it, and then when the relationship turned out to be horribly abusive (which I am not doubting) did not feel any responsibility to pull the plug on the project or at least try to change its dimensions. The fact that she was victimized by this man (or that she has financial needs) doesn't absolve her of all responsibility whatsoever here.

As far as the advance, ok, well it's an advance. Why should she keep it?

To pay rent

my guess is she's spent it already and can't give it back

I'm still having a hard time with the fact that here is a 43-year-old educated liberal woman and longtime professional author who has even been married before (supposedly to a perfectly nice, non-abusive guy) who suddenly decided to buy into an absurd domineering cowboy fantasy, pitched a book about it, and then when the relationship turned out to be horribly abusive (which I am not doubting) did not feel any responsibility to pull the plug on the project or at least try to change its dimensions.

fucked up situations fuck people up

some of you guys seem to be ignoring that if she doesn't promote the book in some way, this will affect her ability to earn money. this isn't the (sexist imo) "this is about money!" trope that people sometimes push around controversies like these - it's "if I take the moral high road, it will have a material effect on me." people will do/say all sorts of things where their health and well-being are concerned - just renouncing the book and saying "don't buy or read it" would be an honest and moral decision, and would also be working tangibly against self-interest.

imo there's probably also pressures on her besides the economic/publishing ones, as evidenced by the backlash against her blog post (i.e. the same pressures faced by all survivors of rape/abuse)

Mordy I actually think you are cool poster on a lot of topics but please shut the fuck up maybe walk away from this thread

Hurting 2, have you ever been in an abusive relationship? Serious q, not meaning any condescension/card-pulling. Finding oneself in such a relationship and having all kinds of personal fallout as a result have literally nothing to do with one's intelligence, experience, etc. It is a very complex dynamic.

I have been advised not to discuss any of this publicly, to just accept this cold shoulder and lack of support as my penance for the crime of being openly broken up with the cowboy when I should have just pretended we were still together long enough to sell books. I have tried to be cooperative, but as the early reviews come rolling in for the book I feel compelled to come clean — totally clean — with my readers. I do this because I think it will help to make sense of a book that in many ways just doesn’t make sense to healthy people, and because I believe very firmly that the truth is the only currency a writer has, and that if there is any hope of redeeming this book and making it meaningful it lies in the full story of my relationship with the cowboy and not just in the candy-coated version that appears in the book.

I don't think there is a way of reconciling these words, that she said, with the consequent coverup. Apparently truth is not the ONLY currency this writer has.

ranger than fiction

I hope she has a lawyer at this point

Mordy you too could maybe benefit from thinking a little harder about the dynamics of abusive relationships and their many effects of the survivor

y'all are barred from ilf btw

on the survivor

I don't get the impression that anyone in this thread is angry. I'm certainly not angry.

― Mordy, Thursday, January 10, 2013 1:40 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also I am very angry! I am angry about a culture that makes excuses for rape and abuse and silences its victims.

I'm sorry silby, but this is - despite emily's assertion to the contrary - a serious issue for me. It goes to the heart of honesty in writing and journalism. I don't know that she is or isn't lying about the abuse but I do know that this is a writer with a memoir reviewed in major serious literary review outlets that has undermined the validity of her (on its own controversial) book w/out staying true to that assertion.

Xps, Penguin also publishes this:

http://www.penguin.co.uk/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9781405910644,00.html

It's what sells, though. Any agent coming along with the cowboy book and a pitch of Ree Drummond meets EL James would get their hand bitten off by most publishers.

The best course of action would be to cancel her engagements for a few days and work out a way forward everyone is comfortable with. It's not as though they can put the cat back in the bag.

I don't want to silence her! I want her to stand up for what she wrote on her blog. Not go on the radio and pretend that she had a great love affair with this cowboy!

my guess is she's spent it already and can't give it back

She probably got the advance like two years ago, how much do you think is left now? Probably not much.

I keep telling myself "man, if someone gave me hundreds of thousands of dollars, I could make that stretch so far" but in the back of my head I know that I'd basically pay off all of my outstanding debts and then go on a wildly expensive gambling trip to Kuala Lampur

Abuse is not an excuse for perpetuating abuse, which is what pushing this book on her audience is doing.

If she doesn't stand by the abuse/rape charge, it's despicable that she made it.
― Canaille help you (Michael White), Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:09 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post

this is a while along in the thread but just so we're clear: this is a fucking inexcusable thing to say.

Maybe she claimed to be bisexual for attention; maybe, given that her 'i am not bisexual and you are lying, please take it down' phase seems to have happened during the cowboy relationship, it was important to her to deny it because of the relationship she was then in. We don't know! But "this woman has in the past claimed things about her identity and then retracted them" is not a solid reason to accuse her of lying about abuse.

I agree with you mordy but I think what aero is trying to point out is to understand what her motivations might be here, considering what she's been thru (as someone who has been myself, I know how it can fuck up how you deal with everything else)

xp to self - my two paragraphs are not related to each other btw

the timeline on that is very fuzzy to me; the relationship she mentions during that entire back-and-forth is her 12-year marriage, not her new relationship with the cowboy

this letter is sitting at the top of her personal blog right now:

Hello Miss. Valdes I’ve never written anyone famous before, especially a writer; so please be gentle with the way I write. On Wednesday my 14 year old daughter informs me at 7p.m. e.s.t. that she needs a book for school, so I take her to Books a Million. We find the book she needs and I tell her that I’d like to look around for a while. I move over to the new arrivals and start looking around and low and behold is your book. The title catches my eye and I begin to read the inside jacket. I’m a little stunned and unsure about the book, for one thing I thought it was Romance Novel and quickly find out it’s your memoir. I think I should tell you, that, yes I’m a conservative, but one who detest the Republican party. I’m also the only conservative, who is male, but loves to read Romance novels. It’s my guilty Pleasure. Anyways, unsure about what I’m reading, I start the first chapter and am immediately blown away. I bought it! I haven’t been able to put it down. I laughed, I cried, (that’s a little embarrassing, so be merciful) I shouted nooo, I cheered, and I fell in love with your writing. I don’t think I’ve connected with anyone like I have with you. You made me feel like we were old friends and I appreciate that. You gave me hope that people with different points of view, can bridge their differences and simply be nice to one another. I was so moved by this book that I wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed it. I was sorry to hear about your break up, but I am happy to read you’ve met someone new. I know how bad it hurts when you love someone so much and that love is lost. I pray that this new one works out for you. You deserve it. Miss. Valdes, what ever happens remember, you have a new friend, one of millions who love your writing and hope for the best for you. You brought joy to my heart with this story and I thank you for it. Your friend and fan, Sam

i'm so happy we can understand the motivations of someone who is proud to be shoveling this abusive crap to 14 year olds.

sorry, i misread that. i don't think the 14 year old read it.

I was about to say!

http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/577/002424_14.jpg

Finally, I’d like to thank my post-cowboy boyfriend, Michael D. Gandy, the man I am pretty sure I’m going to spend the rest of my life with, for being supportive of me as I embark upon a tour for this book. It can’t be easy watching the woman you love read from a book that was written as a love letter to a different man. It takes a very strong man indeed to handle a thing like this with grace, and that is exactly what Mike is doing. He even wrote a thank-you letter to the cowboy for making me a better woman, a woman who might have scared an incredible man like Michael off, had I never been “tamed”…

ftr there was basic unanimous agreement that everyone thinks that comment is gross

Yeah barf. and who writes to their partners ex? ffs.

ppl under the sway of charismatic and magnetic sociopaths probably

hopefully now that it's being covered by the atlantic the publishing company is going to give her free reign to discuss it - i don't think they can bury it at this point

tbh she should probably lawyer up, she can probably expect an adversarial relationship with her publisher at this point