Literary Clusterfucks 2013

I don't get the impression that anyone in this thread is angry. I'm certainly not angry.

You may be projecting a little bit.

Very interesting -- so that Atlantic article I linked? She's RT'd the announcement of it and replied:

Alisa Valdes ‏@MizAlisa

@hoodedu I find this piece very even-handed, compassionate, and spot-on, and suppose that will get me sued or something.

and a comment about her appearance

Alright, despite my disliking her highlights that was merely a lame attempt at levity and if she wants to call me a mincing, fasetto-voiced sheep fucker, I'll take it in good stride.

All I can say, is that if my guy called me a mouthy cunt, they would pretty much be the last two words I ever heard from him.

Addendum: Because Valdes wants us to accept her book as full of insight, beauty and wisdom about how women should think and act toward men, this obviously tortured clustefuck pretty well discredits any pretensions she had about that, which at the very least means the book is full of crap.

Man, what if goole's worst scenario is true?! *Sigh*

Final addendum, I would hope.

Perhaps, as several here have said, we ought not judge her, but it is fairly clear to me that she had no problem judging feminists and feminism and stating those judgements in clear, harsh, outspoken terms. So, if we choose not to repay her in kind, it is a courtesy she was disinclined to extend to others.

All I can say, is that if my guy called me a mouthy cunt, they would pretty much be the last two words I ever heard from him.

It's pretty easy to say what you would do in an abusive situation until you're in one. I'm not comfortable making judgements on what I would or wouldn't do.

I don't know this lady or know that she was someone I would have found convincing BEFORE the cowboy incident, but being abused changes you even if you thought you were done becoming yourself or defining yourself or w/e. Even if you like to think that who you are is done now, that you have a firm basic nature that can't be swayed...it can. And it takes a while to dig out afterwards. You're not, like, cured from the time you decide to walk away.

Oh boy the part of the ilx clusterfuck where make judgment call on other ilxors, awesome.

I blame Ned for invoking it in the thread title

(Aimless painstakingly divides a lump of blame into a myriad of tiny bits, so they can be correctly apportioned to the proper recipients)

I don't get the impression that anyone in this thread is angry. I'm certainly not angry.

― Mordy, Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:40 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm fucking furious, to be perfectly honest. The vast majority of you are making me feel pretty disgusted.

Sorry that post of mine wasn't particularly helpful and definitely not needed, just, get sick of when these threads turn into ilxors sniping at each other (no matter how obliquely). I think we can all just agree that this is incredibly fucked up and that I guess be grateful that, no matter where things go now, she's out of that relationship.

I'm trying to stay emotionally disengaged and I don't have the energy to get into this today, maybe try another crack about how I'm projecting tomorrow and see if I'm up for it then.

Why wait until tomorrow?

I just assume that her claims of abuse are true. What she went through with that guy was horrible.

Before she went through this, she told an LGBT publication, via email, that she was bisexual, made the claim in her blog and on Wikipedia that they got it wrong, impugning their credibility, implied they were bigoted against her because she was straight, claimed that the LGBT community was out to get her, and then in another blog post claimed that she *was* bisexual, but that she was in physical danger from right-wing Cubans who wanted to kill her because this LGBT publication published that she was bisexual. She subsequently deleted that post.

Then she wrote this anti-feminist book.

http://i.imgur.com/nPPgO.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im8Z34fUuuY

Mordy, do you even have a point here or are you just trying to be an ass?

For the record I don't need to try to be an ass. I need to try not to be an ass.

Seriously, though, maybe ppl who find this kind of thing triggering should walk away from the conversation rather than demand all the angry posters just stop talking about it.

welp

How dare we discuss the post that this author posted on her public blog and the book that this author published with a publishing house! Who the fuck do we think we are?

god forbid any restraint or tact be exercised

I think we can all agree that this has gone from literary to literal.

Hmm, lovely, now we've got John Podhoretz and James Taranto spreading the word among others.

As far as I'm aware, nobody has asked people to stop talking about it. I personally have said stop talking about it like a bunch of fucking poisonous cuntstains who I would happily see dangling from a tree by their frenulums, but I haven't told anyone to stop talking about it.

Maybe you should work harder on that trying not to be an ass thing.

Welp, level "cuntstains" attained. Well done ilx.

Give me a break, emil.y. What was the most fucking poisonous cuntstain thing I said on this thread? That if it turned out he was an abusive rapist maybe she shouldn't be promoting this book in interviews as a love story?

As usual the self-righteous outrage eclipses anything that was actually said. Was it when Michael criticized the highlights in her hair? Was that when everyone became poisonous cuntstains?

Mordy, dude, you obviously haven't read all the articles Ned has helpfully provided if that's your cursory take.

I read the article about her lying about her bisexuality and her bipolar disorders, threatening wiki w/ lawsuits, I read her blog post in full, I read the slate book review of her book, and a few other book reviews. Which link in particular do you feel I missed?

That if it turned out he was an abusive rapist maybe she shouldn't be promoting this book in interviews as a love story?

This part indicates that you're glossing over quite a bit about how she is choosing to promote this.

Like saying on the radio that the cowboy "tamed the shrew" for her new boyfriend?

So far they've agreed that cowboys are hot and alpha-male behavior is understandably attractive to women because evolution. So this is definitely a good use of my time.

― grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:36 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh okay now she's saying her new boyfriend wrote the cowboy a thank-you letter for having tamed the shrew. Verbatim, btw. We're done here.

― grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:40 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

brb, gonna go back my head against a wall now. more productive and fulfilling than trying to continue discussing this with you. also, to try to just extricate myself from this cluster.

hahaha you mean you missed that part of the thread. no worries dude, go start a race war somewhere.

is it possible for you to disagree with someone without making a needlessly provocative personal jab?

yes, obviously. 99% of my posts disagree w/ someone without making a needlessly provocative personal jab.

like that one ^

you might want to consider exercising that restraint here because right now you just look like a total dick

and, since I know you are NOT a total dick, it's disheartening

dangling from a tree by their frenulums

Colorful image. Thanks for injecting something very similar to what you say you deplore itt. Bye!

Mordy, your argument about how she is promoting this is really oversimplified and conveniently ignores a lot of levels here. But clearly given your last post direct towards me, I no longer need to respect you or take a single thing you ever type seriously again.

Hey jon, if you want to make an argument that anyone takes 'seriously' why don't you actually make your argument. What am I oversimplifying? What levels am I ignoring?

I understand. $400,000.00 is a lot of money to give back to your publisher, especially in the current publishing industry. Is that the subtlety I have failed to acknowledge?

It seems obvious to me that she was threatened by her publisher and that is drastically affecting the tack she is taking in promoting this book, let alone anything that got bent in her worldview as a result of going through this relationship.

So, it seems we are all talking about a woman who was most likely victimized and abused, who went on to say and do some pretty spectacularly foolish and inappropriate things in regard to her abuse and her abuser. Ilxors, to best of my reading, have mostly been saying that those spectacularly foolish and inappropriate things appear to be both foolish and inappropriate.

This is not to say the poor woman wasn't abused or she was not a victim, but only that it is highly inadvisable at this point to take all those foolish and inappropriate things at the face value that she placed upon them when she said them, wrote them, or did them. And it looks like she is continuing to sell her book based on the idea that it ought to be taken at face value. Which is wrongheaded at best.

imo, there is nothing wrong with saying this. even if it makes a few ilxors angry., because they think this is the same as taunting or ridiculing a victim of abuse for being a victim of abuse. it is more like trying to divide the wheat from the chaff. God knows there is enough chaff in all this to keep us well occupied.

DJP OTM

Fwiw I said I thought the interview sucked partly b/c of the interviewer, which I can expand on: I thought the intviewer/radio show host led Valdes to some of those unsavory places where she said those things...and all through it I thought Valdes was giggly and light and insubstantial-sounding, and seemed eager to please, that she could be led to agree and to tailor her story to meet with the approval of the host and/or her presumed listeners (being fans of the host's regular show). We know that she DID tailor it because, like I also already posted, she put a different slant on some objectionable things for the radio show than she had in her writing.

The eager to please and agreeable part, like I said I didn't know anything about her BEFORE this, but you don't just get over that when it's been your survival mechanism for some time. I'm okay with just calling this sad and wishing her a healthier life in the future.