polo shirt under a jacket, tho
― mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:50 (eleven years ago) link
I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy. You see by my outfit that I'm a cowboy, too. We see by these outfits that we are all cowboys. If you buy a cowboy outfit, you can be a cowboy, too.
― Aimless, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:50 (eleven years ago) link
damn nm I just actually read this shit how f'd up
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:07 (eleven years ago) link
i keep reading her name as alida valli
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:27 (eleven years ago) link
jesus
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:37 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know if we do this around here but there's some srs abuse and sexual assault triggers in Ned's second link
― autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
it's probably a good thing that she's posting a picture of her rapist on the internet, now we can watch out for him
― autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
man that's a tough read
― goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
cowboyfucks
― buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:11 (eleven years ago) link
How much you wanna bet that Mr Cowboy is gonna be a MRA talking head
― Theodora Celery, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:49 (eleven years ago) link
In 2001, Valdes emailed a 3400-word resignation letter to her superiors at the Los Angeles Times. The letter was widely circulated on the Internet[ and reprinted in the St. Petersburg Times. In the letter she accused the newspaper of racism and discrimination, especially in its synonymous use of the word "latino" with "Spanish-speaker", a practice she equated to genocide.
― buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:54 (eleven years ago) link
buzza are you suggesting that alisa valdes is hysterical or otherwise to be dismissed
― mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:32 (eleven years ago) link
this is not the elizabeth wurtzel thread
― buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:35 (eleven years ago) link
And so, even though I was 43 years old and have Lupus
WHY DO THESE FANFICCY CRAP ROMANCE NOVELISTS ALWAYS HAVE LUPUS OR FIBRO WTF.
― Una Stubbs' Tears (Trayce), Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:36 (eleven years ago) link
hm prob should have read the whole post of hers before making light. still, this shit brings the whole 50 shades bullshit into its awful, true light.
― Una Stubbs' Tears (Trayce), Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:46 (eleven years ago) link
Considering Valdes wrote one of the single most amazing demolitions of a horrible person ever, reading/seeing all this...yeah.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:43 (eleven years ago) link
okay that was awesome. thanks for linking that Ned
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:48 (eleven years ago) link
still cannot get over her story with the cowboy. so fucked up. I mean, just that it reads so familiarly, is so sad to me.
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:52 (eleven years ago) link
oh, okay then
― mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:55 (eleven years ago) link
“An irresistible, post-feminist Taming of the Shrew. Don’t be scared by the premise. This is not a story about a woman relinquishing her identity. Quite the opposite. It is a riveting tale about how a brilliant, strong-minded woman liberated herself from a dreary, male-bashing, reality-denying feminism.”
– Christina Hoff Sommers, author of The War Against Boys; How Misguided Feminism is Harming Our Young Men
― buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:24 (eleven years ago) link
a practice she equated to genocide
ugh fuck this, there is like a 100% chance she was referring to cultural genocide, a term used for decades and not meant to imply the actual murder of a group of people
― #guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:25 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.sptimes.com/News/110300/Floridian/The_language_of_genoc.shtml
― buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:37 (eleven years ago) link
buzza idgi are you trying to damage the credibility of the woman who basically just announced she wrote a book about a man who raped her
― autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:39 (eleven years ago) link
apparently so?
it's tough when you can only speak in the form of revived threads
― mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:53 (eleven years ago) link
seemed like zachylon wanted the context of the wiki quote so i provided it?
― buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 08:02 (eleven years ago) link
thank you for posting it
she does make a clear distinction between the two types of genocide tho she doesn't mark it with "cultural" or something similar. she does 'equate' the two but that's sort of the idea, while the wiki editor left out any of that context and framed it like "she compared this one tiny linguistic choice with the holocaust", fuck wiki
― #guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Thursday, 10 January 2013 08:56 (eleven years ago) link
"literary"
― Broken Clock Britain (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 10 January 2013 09:18 (eleven years ago) link
I have a lot of thoughts about this whole thing and also some feelings but none are organized enough to share except for, Jesus, Lady--at least when I did that I didn't write a book about it.
― grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 14:49 (eleven years ago) link
considering that one of the major goals of feminism was to protect women from the power imbalances present in domestic relationships, it's not super surprising that valdes' paean to how feminism got romance wrong and how there's something special about a real man turned out to be about an abusive asshole. i don't mean to suggest that she deserves what happened in the least, but there is a sort of irony that the very political principles she decried in the context of this relationship turned out to be especially relevant to her needs.
― Mordy, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:01 (eleven years ago) link
xp On second thought that makes it sound like my experience was as extreme as hers: it was not. I also didn't put it in those terms of submission etc or posit that it revealed anything about how feminism has failed us. And I didn't have to jump out of a moving truck although after getting hit by an actual car frankly I'd take another one of those accidents over another of those relationships.
― grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
there is a sort of irony that the very political principles she decried in the context of this relationship turned out to be especially relevant to her needs.
It's not like that's a coincidence. She decried them because she was being told to.
― grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
really want some blogger to try to get a reaction out of christina hoff summers
― goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:13 (eleven years ago) link
I usually assume "How I did X and Changed My Life" memoirists are flighty, superficial and unrealistic people, because shit just doesn't work like that. This is a particularly egregious example.
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
This is a horrible horrible story.
― emil.y, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
btw, I regret my above post, having apparently made it without really reading most of the story in her blog post.
However, the blog post is now gone.
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
?!
― goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
this just got a little clusterfuckier
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
without the followup blog post this is kind of incoherent
she wrote a fluffy romance novel that seems to spend half its time scolding modern feminism, then revealed that the man she was writing about raped and abused her and (this is where things are fuzzy to me) the whole novel was a double-feint?
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:52 (eleven years ago) link
it's a memior!
― goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:53 (eleven years ago) link
ergh
so, replace "romance novel" with "memoir"; is the rest accurate?
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
Yup.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
huh
― Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
Given some of the things she was also saying about her publisher I wonder if that had something to do with it.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
Was just wondering the same thing.
― grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
not really a double feint in my reading; the now-gone blog post says the memior was written a couple years ago while still under the heavy influence of the guy and (i think?) before the most egregious instances of abuse had happened
― goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
the memoir was finished 2 years ago and some shit has gone down since then.
― an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
she also previously blogged about her breakup with him without as far as I can tell mentioning abuse or rape, which of course doesn't mean it didn't happen. But she wrote things like,
I am grateful for this entire experience, and I do not view this breakup as in any way being counter to the message of my book. I still love Steve, and I am convinced that I always will. This breakup hurts more than my divorce, because the depth and intensity of the love was the most profound thing I have experienced, other than being a mother.
I probably should have seen it coming, given what little I knew of his dating/family/job/friendship history. I ignored the red flags, and I chose to live in a state of hope. That’s not a bad thing, really. It was a glorious 1.5 years. Best of my life. I would not trade them for anything. I have never felt more at peace, and more alive, and more on fire with wanting than I did at his little house in the middle of nowhere, lying next to him in the deathly quiet of night. I am a completely changed human being for having known this man, in every way, and so the basic message of the memoir remains true, and always will. This relationship changed me, and just because it has been taken from me does not mean I am no longer changed. I am forever changed, better, new, reborn, wiser. Should I someday ever get to that place again where I feel I’m able to have another relationship (seems unlikely right now) I’d like to think my future boyfriend will owe Steve a thank-you letter for the woman I became with him — a gentler, more compassionate, more thoughtful and womanly version of the person I’d always been.
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
when did the alleged abuse go down?
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
(blog post was October 2012)
The now-removed post also says that she sugar-coated things for her blog so that readers wouldn't know how bad it was.
― grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
Feel like I only ever hear about the Hugos because of blunders and controversies, maybe they should scrap them.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 17 February 2024 21:18 (one month ago) link
Was that the focus of the "sad puppies" dustup a few years ago?
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 17 February 2024 21:19 (one month ago) link
is she trying to say that his article was so similar to her book she should have been cited?I presume this, although there are lots of people writing about this sort of thing lately (the loneliness epidemic, the friendship recession, etc.) that it seems churlish to complain about this article just bc it uses the phrase "hanging out."That said, The Atlantic should pay her for that excerpt.
― jaymc, Saturday, 17 February 2024 22:13 (one month ago) link
Yikes...https://i.ibb.co/pPjgyP4/Screenshot-20240217-162149-Chrome.jpg
― jaymc, Saturday, 17 February 2024 22:24 (one month ago) link
lmao
― flopson, Saturday, 17 February 2024 22:34 (one month ago) link
the editors probably should have clued him in, but lol at her owning “hanging out”
― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Saturday, 17 February 2024 23:38 (one month ago) link
I teach a research methods class for nonfiction writers. Just let me know if you’d like to sit in and I’ll be happy to share the Zoom link! https://t.co/9I1NYKd8wo— Sheila Liming (@seeshespeak) February 15, 2024
I seriously can’t tell if she’s doing a bit
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 18 February 2024 02:00 (one month ago) link
She seems like a pretty typical high on their own supply tenured writing prof
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Sunday, 18 February 2024 02:02 (one month ago) link
pretty sure no one who started instructing or even got to associate prof since 1998 has ever gotten tenure but you’d know better!
― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Sunday, 18 February 2024 02:59 (one month ago) link
I think she probably views it as publicity
― jaymc, Sunday, 18 February 2024 03:38 (one month ago) link
twitter-beefing that is
― jaymc, Sunday, 18 February 2024 03:39 (one month ago) link
Honestly, I'm kind of on her side here -- she ran the piece in the Atlantic, she feels that Thompson, a staff writer there, probably read it there, forgot he read it, then borrowed her phrasing; it would be incredibly irritating to run a piece, not get paid, then feel like the guy who is getting paid is making use of your phrasing without even remembering where he got it from! I don't think that's churlish really.
That said, I think Thompson handled it as well as he could have.
Also I am not so convinced there's anything wrong with human life today and I think the ability to have low-key text conversations constantly with people far away is a feature of modern life that pushes the other way from diminished face-to-face interaction and for all I know even outweighs that diminishment.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 18 February 2024 03:56 (one month ago) link
isn’t associate prof typically tenured?
― flopson, Sunday, 18 February 2024 04:06 (one month ago) link
He claimed he hadn't read it in a tweet and she said he should have googled since he called it Hanging Out
― CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Sunday, 18 February 2024 04:33 (one month ago) link
The idea someone should have Googled a phrase that's been in common use for half a century or more is ridiculous.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, 18 February 2024 04:42 (one month ago) link
i’ve spent most of my life hanging out all the time and still manage to do it a fair bit, but i now have some friends who don’t hang out at all. it’s interesting. for them any social gathering must be a planned activity with a well-defined beginning and end, and almost always needs some intrinsic function to justify it. like i once met up with this guy for a movie and we met up outside the theatre 5 minutes before and then as soon as the movie was over he caught a cab home, didn’t even do the “so what did you think of the movie?” chat. another time my partner and i went to dinner with him and his wife on a saturday night, we met at the restaurant at 6 then they went home promptly at 7:30. not even a hint of a consideration that we’d grab a drink or walk around a bit. the restaurant was a block from their place; they could’ve invited us over. and they don’t have kids. for the longest time we thought they just didn’t like us, but then at one point he told my partner he considered me his best friend. he does text me a lot. it was really confusing, but i think for some people the idea of idly spending time with your friends because you enjoy their company is just not a concept they are aware of. so i could see Sheila Liming thinking she invented “hanging out” if she’d previously exclusively lived amongst these kinds of people. like to her she’d unearthed some kind of lost tradition. the subtitle of the book calls hanging out “radical” which is consistent with that
― flopson, Sunday, 18 February 2024 05:33 (one month ago) link
that’s kind of foreign to me, too. I guess the main difference between now and when I was younger is I’m just hanging out at a friend’s place less than I used to. part of that is the shared urge to get out of the house and we’ll bounce around a bit before going back to our respective homes. people in my sphere also have tighter schedules when you figure in kids, different work hours, etc. so things can seem time-boxedobviously most of humanity’s greatness comes from just chilling
― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Sunday, 18 February 2024 14:24 (one month ago) link
Man that is disappointing when people don’t want to engage in the post-movie stroll and chit-chat. Weather permitting of course.
― The Ginger Bakersfield Sound (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 18 February 2024 15:11 (one month ago) link
The whole idea of hanging out at a friend's house is dead for almost app my friends but two.
One of them now can't really have me over as much because he's promised not to drink in front of his kids anymore and most of the time we'd be drinking fancy whiskey or beer and watching football.
The other sometimes has me over or comes over but ALWAYS wants to go out while simultaneously saying she needs to save money.
But there is no activity more enjoyable to me than just hanging at a friend's pad or having them over mine. Don't gotta worry about "finding parking", or feeling overwhelmed in public which happens often to me lately.
And then more money to do more substantial things with these friends, like the road trip to see Snoop Dogg with this same friend and her boyfriend last year, which was an amazing two day trip
― CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Sunday, 18 February 2024 15:34 (one month ago) link
*all
yeah kids change the calculus. but my friend from the above post is childless and both he and his partners have jobs with very flexible schedules—so no excuse
― flopson, Sunday, 18 February 2024 15:35 (one month ago) link
Feel like I only ever hear about the Hugos because of blunders and controversies, maybe they should scrap them.Feel like I only hear about widespread efforts to remove books from libraries as the result of organised campaigns by a tiny coterie of right-wing creeps, maybe they should scrap libraries.Fuck sake.
― bae (sic), Sunday, 18 February 2024 16:55 (one month ago) link
tbf, removing books from libraries is done by external, (mostly) right-wing forces, and the Hugos shot themselves in the foot, thigh, and sternum during the 2023 awards, based on the details that have just come out
― CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Sunday, 18 February 2024 17:07 (one month ago) link
one thing im a bit confused by with the hugo stuff—isn’t babel by rf kuang quite widely acknowledged to be terrible? everyone i know who attempted reading it basically threw it across the room, and the excerpts ive read were awful
― flopson, Sunday, 18 February 2024 17:13 (one month ago) link
yes but that book throwing helped people increase muscle mass
― CEO Greedwagon (Neanderthal), Sunday, 18 February 2024 17:27 (one month ago) link
shot themselves has tipsy been hearing about the 2024 awards since 2013 or was it something else
― bae (sic), Sunday, 18 February 2024 17:32 (one month ago) link
xpost I haven’t read the book, but it won the Nebula so apparently not everyone agreed it was terrible
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 18 February 2024 18:01 (one month ago) link
With respect, this might be a you problem, it's kept on being one of the two big awards (which is why the Sad / Rabid Puppies went after it, though they never really got very far) - if you don't follow sci-fi awards, where would you expect to hear of it?
xp also the Blackwell's book of the year for fiction (also my wife loved it)
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 18 February 2024 18:55 (one month ago) link
lol my primary source on Hugos is Chuck Tingle. I don't really have an opinion about them.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 18 February 2024 19:52 (one month ago) link
Hugo winners are a good way to get new scifi reading in - well, they were on point with NK Jemisin anyway she's awesome.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 18 February 2024 21:32 (one month ago) link
Any awards that keep being given to Sean McGuire are deeply suspect awards. And they're popularly voted, so the literary equivalent of the Logies.
― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Sunday, 18 February 2024 21:46 (one month ago) link
Hmm, except that no one knows what the Logies are
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Sunday, 18 February 2024 22:07 (one month ago) link
xp I am assuming you're not deadnaming Seanan McGuire there?
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 18 February 2024 22:09 (one month ago) link
Just autocorrect kicking in, annoyingly
― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Monday, 19 February 2024 02:50 (one month ago) link
I actually wasn't aware she'd had any other name.
And the Logies thing was my point.
― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Monday, 19 February 2024 02:51 (one month ago) link
Logies have only been open voting for a decade or so, you used to have to spend $2.95 on the form and 37¢ on the stamp, at least (so they were rigged by publicists instead of the public)Any organisation’s membership giving awards, contrarily, is a completely normal and reasonable process for awards. And rarely results in a significantly more demented slate than one which has juried noms and attendee voting tbf.(I have no opinion about the recipients of any of them in the last 8 years except that two went to a friend and those ones are, unrelatedly, good and justified. if tipsy wants to call for the awards to be scrapped bcz he has now heard of them four times, not twice, in eleven years, go ahead tho)
― bae (sic), Monday, 19 February 2024 09:34 (one month ago) link
all awards are bad
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 19 February 2024 09:45 (one month ago) link
thread winner
― mark s, Monday, 19 February 2024 09:49 (one month ago) link
Historic Hugos (and Nebulas) award winners still a dece enough guide to the best in the genre for newbies.
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 19 February 2024 10:02 (one month ago) link
if tipsy wants to call for the awards to be scrapped bcz he has now heard of them four times, not twice, in eleven years, go ahead tho
I dived into the whole sad puppies thing when it was going on — which ran for like five years, didn't it? — and now obviously this whole China debacle. All of which suggest — to, yes, somebody who doesn't pay much attention or attach any particular significance to the Hugos — that there are some organizational/structural issues or vulnerabilities. I don't care if it gets scrapped or not, but it looks like they're going to have some work to do to re-establish whatever credibility they had.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 19 February 2024 15:12 (one month ago) link
There are probably 50 different awards for SF writing given out yearly, but the only ones most people know of or care about are the Nebulas and the Hugos. That's why the Sad Weirdos tried to hijack the awards in the first place. It makes more sense to replace whoever was making censorship decisions in this case than to get rid of a fan voted award entirely.
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Monday, 19 February 2024 15:21 (one month ago) link
― The Ginger Bakersfield Sound (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 20 February 2024 17:20 (one month ago) link