Literary Clusterfucks 2013

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jesus

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:35 (eight years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FORoSB5JxCU

"Cowboy up."

jim, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:44 (eight years ago) link

none of these people are really writers

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, June 4, 2010 1:18 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:49 (eight years ago) link

wtf @ that whole story

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:50 (eight years ago) link

polo shirt under a jacket, tho

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:50 (eight years ago) link

I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy.
You see by my outfit that I'm a cowboy, too.
We see by these outfits that we are all cowboys.
If you buy a cowboy outfit, you can be a cowboy, too.

Aimless, Thursday, 10 January 2013 01:50 (eight years ago) link

damn nm I just actually read this shit how f'd up

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:07 (eight years ago) link

i keep reading her name as alida valli

difficult listening hour, Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:27 (eight years ago) link

jesus

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:37 (eight years ago) link

I don't know if we do this around here but there's some srs abuse and sexual assault triggers in Ned's second link

autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:47 (eight years ago) link

it's probably a good thing that she's posting a picture of her rapist on the internet, now we can watch out for him

autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:51 (eight years ago) link

man that's a tough read

goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 02:51 (eight years ago) link

cowboyfucks

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:11 (eight years ago) link

How much you wanna bet that Mr Cowboy is gonna be a MRA talking head

Theodora Celery, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:49 (eight years ago) link

In 2001, Valdes emailed a 3400-word resignation letter to her superiors at the Los Angeles Times. The letter was widely circulated on the Internet[ and reprinted in the St. Petersburg Times. In the letter she accused the newspaper of racism and discrimination, especially in its synonymous use of the word "latino" with "Spanish-speaker", a practice she equated to genocide.

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 03:54 (eight years ago) link

buzza are you suggesting that alisa valdes is hysterical or otherwise to be dismissed

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:32 (eight years ago) link

this is not the elizabeth wurtzel thread

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:35 (eight years ago) link

And so, even though I was 43 years old and have Lupus

WHY DO THESE FANFICCY CRAP ROMANCE NOVELISTS ALWAYS HAVE LUPUS OR FIBRO WTF.

Una Stubbs' Tears (Trayce), Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:36 (eight years ago) link

hm prob should have read the whole post of hers before making light. still, this shit brings the whole 50 shades bullshit into its awful, true light.

Una Stubbs' Tears (Trayce), Thursday, 10 January 2013 04:46 (eight years ago) link

Considering Valdes wrote one of the single most amazing demolitions of a horrible person ever, reading/seeing all this...yeah.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:43 (eight years ago) link

okay that was awesome. thanks for linking that Ned

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:48 (eight years ago) link

still cannot get over her story with the cowboy. so fucked up. I mean, just that it reads so familiarly, is so sad to me.

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:52 (eight years ago) link

this is not the elizabeth wurtzel thread

oh, okay then

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 05:55 (eight years ago) link

“An irresistible, post-feminist Taming of the Shrew. Don’t be scared by the premise. This is not a story about a woman relinquishing her identity. Quite the opposite. It is a riveting tale about how a brilliant, strong-minded woman liberated herself from a dreary, male-bashing, reality-denying feminism.”

– Christina Hoff Sommers, author of The War Against Boys; How Misguided Feminism is Harming Our Young Men

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:24 (eight years ago) link

a practice she equated to genocide

ugh fuck this, there is like a 100% chance she was referring to cultural genocide, a term used for decades and not meant to imply the actual murder of a group of people

#guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:25 (eight years ago) link

http://www.sptimes.com/News/110300/Floridian/The_language_of_genoc.shtml

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:37 (eight years ago) link

buzza idgi are you trying to damage the credibility of the woman who basically just announced she wrote a book about a man who raped her

autistic boy is surprisingly good at basketball (silby), Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:39 (eight years ago) link

apparently so?

it's tough when you can only speak in the form of revived threads

mookieproof, Thursday, 10 January 2013 07:53 (eight years ago) link

seemed like zachylon wanted the context of the wiki quote so i provided it?

buzza, Thursday, 10 January 2013 08:02 (eight years ago) link

thank you for posting it

she does make a clear distinction between the two types of genocide tho she doesn't mark it with "cultural" or something similar. she does 'equate' the two but that's sort of the idea, while the wiki editor left out any of that context and framed it like "she compared this one tiny linguistic choice with the holocaust", fuck wiki

#guy #guy fieri #poop #hallway (zachlyon), Thursday, 10 January 2013 08:56 (eight years ago) link

"literary"

Broken Clock Britain (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 10 January 2013 09:18 (eight years ago) link

I have a lot of thoughts about this whole thing and also some feelings but none are organized enough to share except for, Jesus, Lady--at least when I did that I didn't write a book about it.

grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 14:49 (eight years ago) link

considering that one of the major goals of feminism was to protect women from the power imbalances present in domestic relationships, it's not super surprising that valdes' paean to how feminism got romance wrong and how there's something special about a real man turned out to be about an abusive asshole. i don't mean to suggest that she deserves what happened in the least, but there is a sort of irony that the very political principles she decried in the context of this relationship turned out to be especially relevant to her needs.

Mordy, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:01 (eight years ago) link

xp On second thought that makes it sound like my experience was as extreme as hers: it was not. I also didn't put it in those terms of submission etc or posit that it revealed anything about how feminism has failed us. And I didn't have to jump out of a moving truck although after getting hit by an actual car frankly I'd take another one of those accidents over another of those relationships.

grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:03 (eight years ago) link

there is a sort of irony that the very political principles she decried in the context of this relationship turned out to be especially relevant to her needs.

It's not like that's a coincidence. She decried them because she was being told to.

grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:07 (eight years ago) link

really want some blogger to try to get a reaction out of christina hoff summers

goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:13 (eight years ago) link

I usually assume "How I did X and Changed My Life" memoirists are flighty, superficial and unrealistic people, because shit just doesn't work like that. This is a particularly egregious example.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:25 (eight years ago) link

This is a horrible horrible story.

emil.y, Thursday, 10 January 2013 15:40 (eight years ago) link

btw, I regret my above post, having apparently made it without really reading most of the story in her blog post.

However, the blog post is now gone.

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:44 (eight years ago) link

?!

goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:44 (eight years ago) link

this just got a little clusterfuckier

drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:46 (eight years ago) link

without the followup blog post this is kind of incoherent

she wrote a fluffy romance novel that seems to spend half its time scolding modern feminism, then revealed that the man she was writing about raped and abused her and (this is where things are fuzzy to me) the whole novel was a double-feint?

Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:52 (eight years ago) link

it's a memior!

goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:53 (eight years ago) link

ergh

so, replace "romance novel" with "memoir"; is the rest accurate?

Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:54 (eight years ago) link

Yup.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:54 (eight years ago) link

huh

Solange Knowles is my hero (DJP), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:55 (eight years ago) link

Given some of the things she was also saying about her publisher I wonder if that had something to do with it.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:55 (eight years ago) link

Was just wondering the same thing.

grossly incorrect register (in orbit), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:57 (eight years ago) link

not really a double feint in my reading; the now-gone blog post says the memior was written a couple years ago while still under the heavy influence of the guy and (i think?) before the most egregious instances of abuse had happened

goole, Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:57 (eight years ago) link

the memoir was finished 2 years ago and some shit has gone down since then.

an eagle named "small government" (call all destroyer), Thursday, 10 January 2013 16:57 (eight years ago) link

there doesn’t seem to be any consideration (on Twitter anyway) that this trauma could affect, say, how someone behaves when their work of several years becomes public

True, but who has time to research the lives of all the people who bumblefuck their way into your timeline and act like dickheads?

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Friday, 23 April 2021 05:04 (one month ago) link

Deborah Levygate

A blatantly racist short story by Deborah Levy.

I shared this on ig yesterday and it has left many of us deeply upset for obvious reasons (though not obvious enough apparently for Deborah or Ambit).

Please keep sharing. Thank you. https://t.co/Xgv4m0fPFq

— Jasmine Lo 羅暄兒 (@017Jasmine) April 25, 2021

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Monday, 26 April 2021 08:24 (one month ago) link

God that looks dire. Googling turns up a NYT review of a short story collection it was included in, which says:

'Proletarian Zen'' is a kind of extended and amusing dialect joke.

You don't say.

john p. coltrane in hot pursuit (Matt #2), Monday, 26 April 2021 10:13 (one month ago) link

A resolution of sorts:

1. There have been a series of tweets since yesterday about Proletarian Zen by Deborah Levy, a short story that Ambit published in 1986. It should not have been reprinted in 2019.

— Ambit Magazine (@ambitmagazine) April 26, 2021

This Literary Clusterfuck is now concluded, thanks for watching.

john p. coltrane in hot pursuit (Matt #2), Monday, 26 April 2021 12:24 (one month ago) link

there were a series of editorial mistakes for it being reprinted it in 2019 which we are exploring in house.

the story was laying next to a different story and we accidentally put it in the magazine while distracted by a particularly pleasant birdsong

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 26 April 2021 14:04 (one month ago) link

Not quite a clusterfuck though. It generated around 10 tweets + immediate apology

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 26 April 2021 15:31 (one month ago) link

perfunctory cluster makeout sesh at best

Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 26 April 2021 15:56 (one month ago) link

From Deborah Levy.

Proletarian Zen was a short story written in my early 20’s and published in 1986.
Context: I was asked to write a satire about stereotypes in fiction.
I totally understand it is offensive & I got this wrong & you are right to call it out.

— Ambit Magazine (@ambitmagazine) April 26, 2021

Joe Bombin (milo z), Monday, 26 April 2021 16:01 (one month ago) link

Can’t these apologies ever be along the lines of “Jesus Christ, what the fuck was wrong with me”?

Joe Bombin (milo z), Monday, 26 April 2021 16:01 (one month ago) link

preferably was/is actually

I don’t know, I just don’t get an actual sense of shame from “I hear you, I see you.”

Joe Bombin (milo z), Monday, 26 April 2021 16:02 (one month ago) link

"I did not give permission for this story to be reprinted in 2019" is a bit odd, although maybe she doesn't control the copyright for some published works? Anyway there'll surely be another fustercluck along soon, never fear, probably involving an old-timey SF writer and/or the Hugo Awards.

john p. coltrane in hot pursuit (Matt #2), Monday, 26 April 2021 16:06 (one month ago) link

no way url slugs

Canon in Deez (silby), Monday, 26 April 2021 20:02 (one month ago) link

lol

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Monday, 26 April 2021 20:09 (one month ago) link

Can’t these apologies ever be along the lines of “Jesus Christ, what the fuck was wrong with me”?

Ehhh not a comment on this particular infraction but the public apology has become such a cliché and punchline at this point that I doubt it can be pulled off in a way that won't read as insincere to most people. "Jesus Christ what the fuck was wrong with me?" could easily tip over into performative hand-wringing and making-it-all-about-yourself for instance.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 April 2021 09:03 (one month ago) link

Meanwhile it seems Philip Roth's biographer is a creep or worse

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 21 April 2021 18:16 (one week ago) link

I didn't think I cared about this story, but I ended up reading the two pieces on Slate (one first-person account, one investigative reporting) and they were both so powerfully written, I was just absolutely gutted by the end.

Mark E. Smith died this year. Or, maybe last year. (bernard snowy), Friday, 30 April 2021 23:07 (one month ago) link

Ugh, just glanced at that. I can't even. Did you ever read the one about the Horace Mann teacher?

A Stop at Quilloughby (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 30 April 2021 23:47 (one month ago) link

Does the Believer guy bathing in a mesh shirt on a Zoom call count as a clusterfuck?

Joe Bombin (milo z), Friday, 30 April 2021 23:54 (one month ago) link

clusterducky you’re the one

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Saturday, 1 May 2021 00:07 (one month ago) link

maybe there's more going on, but the believer guy seems more foolish and unfortunate than anything else

otoh maybe a guy who's in so much pain that he has to take work meetings in the tub yet doesn't consider wearing swim trunks shouldn't really be in charge of anything

mookieproof, Saturday, 1 May 2021 00:19 (one month ago) link

I don't understand how it makes sense to say both "the exposure on the Zoom call may not have been intentional" and "we view it as an act of sexual harassment".

JRN, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 05:45 (one month ago) link

JRN, sexual harassment does not depend on the intention of the harasser, but on whether the people consider the behavior unwelcome. However unintentional the bathtub incident may have been, it was behavior of a sexual nature that was unwelcome.

it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:00 (one month ago) link

Why was he in the bathtub while on a call?

treeship., Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:41 (one month ago) link

I think indecent exposure, accidentally, via Zoom is possible, and I don’t think it would be sexual harassment then. Like what if you forget you were in a waiting room and the host suddenly lets you into the meeting? Or you thought you signed off but didn’t. The app runs in the background, behind your other apps.

In this case he was already naked on the call which seems weird.

treeship., Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:44 (one month ago) link

His explanation is that he has fibromyalgia and was soaking in the tub to manage pain. I'm not sure that's being challenged, as such.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:52 (one month ago) link

Or rather it's being viewed sceptically but no alternate account of events has been publicised.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 11:53 (one month ago) link

I understand that you can harass without intending to--but can you harass via an action you didn't even intend to perform? If a boss accidentally tripped and fell into an employee's lap, could that count as sexual harassment? That seems to be the suggestion in the open letter. I don't get it, the response seems plenty strong without it.

JRN, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:19 (one month ago) link

That letter pretty clearly says "Sure, this one thing might have been accidental, but he's just the kind of asshole who'd do something like this on purpose, and you better believe we've got some stories we could tell."

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:26 (one month ago) link

^^^ that was my take, seems like employees he's treated like shit over the years are all too happy to put this incident into an overall pattern of behavior

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:28 (one month ago) link

the Open Letter is suggesting the harassment was because he had a pattern of being negligent and showing disregard for the staffers, suggesting that he cares little enough about the sensitivities of his co-workers that he wouldn't take precautions to prevent the possibility of something like that even happening (like, perhaps attending the call on audio only, or ....not being in the tub).

but with that being said, it is really fucking easy to fuck up web cam by accident. I had a new laptop once and hit a button in WebEx by mistake and it flipped my camera on while I was shirtless (I immediately ducked under the table and threw a shirt on and flipped camera off).

I teach classes regularly and yes, on days when I haven't been required to use web cam, I always make sure I'm attired for that reason. but I think "this was a freak accident" is probably likely.

Filibuster Poindexter (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:37 (one month ago) link

or what unperson and jon said. dammit, took too long to rewrite the message

Filibuster Poindexter (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:38 (one month ago) link

Having worked for a couple of years at a small lit magazine of Believer-y proportions, edited by a total asshole who made everyone's lives miserable, the open letter rings completely accurate to me.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:40 (one month ago) link

I guess the point is, some freak accidents are less freaky than others

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:41 (one month ago) link

Yeah one rather obvious reading would be "it may have been unintentional, but given our other experiences, we doubt it". So never mind what I said before.

JRN, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:44 (one month ago) link

I'm not sure it's even that - it seems close to 'it may have been unintentional but only someone who doesn't care about their staff's wellbeing could have put themselves in a position to make that mistake in the first place', which idk.

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 15:31 (one month ago) link

Yeah. "I forgot to be careful" is only a hair from "I couldn't be bothered to be careful".

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 16:28 (one month ago) link

Not having a shirt on and having one's camera come on by accident is very different from what this guy did, y'all. He literally was on a call, naked. Either he doesn't give a shit or shouldn't have been on the call because he was in too much pain.

it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 16:54 (one month ago) link

Wondering if there was any benefit to this meeting being a Zoom call instead of a conference call by phone. Dude could still have a job if he’d said that he had to be in the tub because of his medical condition and so maybe a call would be better, or else had kept the camera off for the call for the same reason.

too cool for zen talk (Eazy), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 17:40 (one month ago) link

Hmm x2

The article did not quote anyone else who had been present, and so there was little room for Shenk’s exposure to be interpreted as anything more than an unfortunate mistake. Staffers were incensed. “This article is all he needs to get himself another job where he can endanger people,” a colleague wrote to me. This was the first we were hearing about a bathtub, and several other details in the article seemed to be acting as convenient distractions; for instance, the “mesh shirt” Shenk was supposedly wearing had appeared on screen to be a normal-looking white t-shirt.

https://defector.com/whats-happening-at-the-believer-is-about-more-than-just-a-zoom-incident/

Mark E. Smith died this year. Or, maybe last year. (bernard snowy), Thursday, 6 May 2021 20:47 (one month ago) link

yeah I'm inclined to believe his employees' account, pretty fucked how many journalistic publications spiked the employee comments.

Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Thursday, 6 May 2021 21:16 (one month ago) link

Skyhorse Publishing has picked up the Philip Roth biography. Check out their website to see the other fine, fine books they publish...

http://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 17 May 2021 21:08 (four weeks ago) link

I think I've got one of their Robert F Jones books. Since when did they become associated with Night Shade Books? I love Night Shade.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 17 May 2021 21:23 (four weeks ago) link

They publish all sorts of stuff, literally no filter

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Tuesday, 18 May 2021 08:38 (four weeks ago) link

Skyhorse Publishing’s House of Horrors

Skyhorse Publishing, literary home to Michael Cohen, Woody Allen, and Alan Dershowitz, has struggled with bigger problems than a roster of political unsavories. Interviews suggest a history of workplace toxicity and inappropriate behavior.

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Tuesday, 18 May 2021 19:19 (four weeks ago) link

Wow shocking

Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Tuesday, 18 May 2021 19:45 (four weeks ago) link


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