the nascent appeal of managerial competency

ringing.

She will come back. Believe.

I'm trying to upload a photo a photo of Karleigh Osborne's signed Brentford shirt. it's not going v well because I can't operate my phone v easily.

fantastic post

xxxp

i'm not declaring rodgers a certain failure i'm merely saying that the collegiately cosy insistence that there is unquestioned ~progress~ happening along some defined line towards 'success' is hardly a bedrock position.

No i've not read it yet fuck off

surely nakh is avoiding the concept of "progress" and saying that here is an example of the notion of non typical non fatalistic manager speak, admittedly as self-sustaining in its own way as the nugatory crypto-philosophical content of... and I can't remember the anti-Rodgers name I was going to use. totally arseoled tbqf.

I can't believe I'm not the only person on ILX with a signed Karleigh Osborne shirt. What do you have to do to carve out yr own niche, ffs.

Find Rodgers a bit creepy if I'm honest.

http://e1.365dm.com/12/11/660x350/Brendan_2859497.jpg

http://i2.wp.com/metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/rodgers.png?w=544

you're not going to condemn him for that, come on

I can't believe I'm not the only person on ILX with a signed Karleigh Osborne shirt. What do you have to do to carve out yr own niche, ffs.

― oppet, Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:13 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n601/gamalielratsey/2012-12-21192926_zps7d4b3cf6.jpg

only in the pub. speaking of which, apologies for sprawling all over this thread last night, bursting into conversation with blurred and noisy incoherence, while people look embarrassed into their pints.

you assholes don't post enough ffs

surely nakh is avoiding the concept of "progress" and saying that here is an example of the notion of non typical non fatalistic manager speak, admittedly as self-sustaining in its own way as the nugatory crypto-philosophical content of... and I can't remember the anti-Rodgers name I was going to use. totally arseoled tbqf.

I see where i went wrong. It was using the word 'crypto' after 'nugatory' - what i meant (hmmm) was 'admittedly as self-sustaining in its own way as the nugatory philosophical content of a.. well a more conventional manager' - I think the grinding poverty of Pulis's interviews meant he was foremost in what there was of my mind. That said of course, their to be fair at the end of the day 'common sense' formulations provide a good shield in interviews (articulating thought is open to analysis), while speaking in terms that are too dead to be seriously offensive to most people, unless they are particularly alert to the irritations of monotony and whingeing about refs. These formulations do not in themselves bespeak any meagreness of thought, but it can be hard to tell a hawk from a handsaw, or an Arry from a Pulis.

In different ways AVB and BR discard the shield and open themselves up with either Quixotic folly or inspired genius, depending on whether they're successful or not. The nature of the success probably also has to reflect their articulation of it, but then again, to a certain extent, if the nature of failure or lack conspicuous success reflects the manager's articulation of their vision, then it seems to me they're likely to be cut more slack than a more guarded manager.

The perception of managerial competency then has something to do with the age old problem of rhetoric as put forward by Quintilian - how you inescapably ensure good rhetoric is also good truth/morally good (so consequently the better it is, the truer/morally better it is).

Following that line suggests that despite the rather canny or prudent approach of the platonic ideal of a Scottish manager (say), in fact yer AVBs and yer BRs may, despite appearances, actually have a greater inherent strength/longevity - if they can get project their rhetoric (rhetoric in the strongest sense, as accurately reflective of thought) onto the team.

At the end of the day it's a results game tbqf tho and 'ah that man's reach shd exceed his grasp' is not an argument that will be tolerated for long.

hmm. now, i'll be thinking the alcohol hasn't quite worn off. I'm hieing me awae to the Natural HIstory Museum.

*if they can get project their rhetoric

breaking my curfew again (actually I'm thinking of breaking it for good but with a different username, only boards viewed ILB, ILM and ILF) to ask, are you Gamaliel Ratsey? just wondrin yknow. also your posts itt have been wonderful as usual

that's him and yeah, he has been appointed doyen of ILB (is that honorific or plenipotentiary idk?)

lmao at that photo of rodgers titsniffing

kind of imagine him spending a lot of time on away trips sitting in underlit corners of hotel bars

you might not speak english but with love, just like football, the language is international

oh, the girls of makhachkala
they're not called sue or carla
but to a lonely ulster boy, ohhh

yep, that's right, oawia - thank you!

charitable sinecure only, Nilmar.

Would you join us for ILF book club, Fizzles? It'll be Fever Pitch and I've been meaning to schedule it for a while but've been busy. Middle of January is possible.

only a game? or gtfo

http://images.angusrobertson.com.au/images/ar/97805525/9780552562454/0/0/plain/tj-and-the-hat-trick.jpg

oof, Fever Pitch? go on then. I have read it years ago. I don't remember having a v high opinion of it, but it might be interesting to revisit. xpost

I've read some of that! Not sure it'd stand up to this more verbose turn that ILF has taken overnight.

Argh! I was talking about Theo's book there.

Isn't it enough that I read about Liverpool not winning the league every day on ILF? Now you want me to re-read an entire book about it?

If you want a book about Liverpool winning the league you'll have to check the sci-fi section. Heh heh

Whereas Utd winning the league ones are to be found in True Crime.

more like Art History. Or something

nicely done

read the article. vegan.

cryptic

mistranslated, maybe

vegan?

vegan

http://i.imgur.com/sOZYc.jpg

http://www.animalsuffering.com/resources/photos/images/Meat-Free-Zone-or-Vegan.jpg

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=301288.0

first line is pretty special

“I am a manager, a doctor, a nuclear physicist, a theoretical philosopher, but above all, I am a man. Just like you."

i am none of those things fwiw

tried to watch some of being liverpool tonight and couldn't make it past a line about 'liverpool will need to perform strongly if james carragher's father is to ever win a league medal' or soemthing. rodgers seemed alright- not v comfortable with cameras about, none of them were rly

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2307095/Paolo-Di-Canio-Sunderland-training-scenes.html

Interesting article on pdc's training style. Hands on showing players exactly what he wants is I suppose no less valid than the more old man impart wisdom from mountain top default setting.

everyone should re-read this thread every couple months imo

this probably a better place to extend my comparison of moyes and martinez and why the latter while more flawed has greater upside. it isn't just about the notional aesthetic comparison between maloney vs anichebe. rather it's because what martinez doing is really rather unusual, today he played a formation that confounded manchester city. the use of wingbacks, even converting a dmid to the position because all of his other options are injured, and two forwards attacking from the flanks caused regular overmatching. zabaleta is the best rb in the league but he couldn't contain it and got booked twice, leading to the late surge that brought the corner and the goal.

sacchi described the multiplier effect as the aim of all tactics, getting players to play beyond their skillset via formation/coaching etc. moyes' success depended to a greater extent on physicality and aggression, midtable sort of strategies which top teams seldom rely on as an end in themselves. they depend on the particularities of the players, like having a £15m 6'4 nuisance capable of outmatching an adjunct centreback (how everton won 1-0 at goodison last year). and as such they are more predictable and more easily neutralized, like by putting phil jones on fellaini in the next game. martinez isn't dependent on his players to the same degree, most of his squad are interchangeable journeymen who he has to deploy in innovative ways vs more talented teams.

it's like how 'natural goalscorers' in the afonso alves vein fail to transfer to higher leagues because their 'instinct' reflected the naivete of the opposition, whereas a player like thierry henry with an unremarkable scoring record can become great because his exceptional physical and technical skills were not contingent in the same way. martinez succeeds via tactical determinism in the manner of the greatest coaches, rather than the dogs of war spirit of most lower table success stories.

i still rate moyes pretty highly but i think his best achievement is buying midpriced defenders -- jagielka, distin, baines, coleman, lescott have all easily outperformed the for money spent on them. he is certainly better at it than martinez but the differences would probably be less apparent if they both had £60m to spend and finding undervalued prospects was less important. other than that i rate the way he plays 4-2-3-1 so well (if crudely) and the solidity of his attacking midfield, players like arteta osman pienaar are much better drilled defensively than a lot of amids. chelsea could learn from him.

Good posts.

Martinez's control of that game today was embarrassing.

didn't see the QF where wigan won 3-0 at goodison - apparently that was a total outplaying too

with all that said it is fairly amazing how wigan constantly seem to outplay a side (like swansea last week) and still lose

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/oct/08/english-coach-anthony-hudson-bahrain

I'm a bit pissed bit for some reason I found that quite moving. think it was the bit about watching the Chilean games. intense dedication to skill + professionalism rather than bogus notions of "heart".