pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

I haven't listened so I don't know, but i know you can be shy and put your soul into it.

it's not like she's laurel halo out there

― lex pretend, Monday, December 17, 2012 5:57 PM (1 hour ago)

I'm guessing that you are referring to the vocals on her album, the point of which was to sound exactly like that. Not saying you have to like it, but if you listen to her other records (King Felix EP and her vocals on that Games' EP), she obviously can sing well.

i like julia holter and saw her live and she's obviously a skilled musician and she's got singing chops. however that quote is soooooooooo stupid. man i hate this new band pavement they're not even trying, it's not art

yeah, stupid quote and weird that they'd cite it as being anything other than the flotsam of a new interviewee

i like that quote, ymmv but there have been a lot of p bad bands that are pretty well-described by "singing some shit into the microphone" the past few years and it is kind of bullshit. try to imagine how you would have reacted if that were a scott seward post and not a jh quote: you probably would have been like "OTM" and then went and listened to a sick chops prog album with renewed zeal. obv it's reductive and some bands have been good but in general as a trend i think people are a big too enabled right now

including it is not necessarily condoning it

flopson your post is so bad

try to imagine how you would have reacted if that were a scott seward post and not a jh quote: you probably would have been like "OTM" and then went and listened to a sick chops prog album with renewed zeal.

lol flopson

i don't think holter's statement holds up as, like, an unbreakable rule that's true across the board or anything, but it needed to be said and i'm basically all for the general sentiment behind it. lots of lazy, incompetent shit out there that needs to stop.

why

she is basically saying that people shouldn't fall for bad music. that's hardly a quote.

it's not a profound statement but unless the interviewer was mangling/manipulating her words to make her appear to be saying something she didn't intend to say, you can't really say "that's hardly a quote"

@ flops you're maybe not so off the mark, but it's different coming from the mouth of a musician

I felt that the quote's inclusion was actually a dig at Julia, seeing as afaic the only crit you could really level at her/her music is that she tries too hard, packing every moment with information.

it's not a profound statement but unless the interviewer was mangling/manipulating her words to make her appear to be saying something she didn't intend to say

that's how i feel.

i mean, that the interviewer mangled/manipulate her words more than anything.

My only issue with quotes like this - which is hardly a problem in isolation - is how people will take them on and go "yeah, bad music sux" and all think it's talking about something else other than the sucky music they personally like.

or readers will use the quote to condemn Pitchfork.

'Julia Holter is right, all i ever loved is bullshit'

it seems pretty clear she's not making a vague statement about "sucky music that sucks" but a more specific one about technical chops

The issue I have with quotes like this is that it punctures a balloon. At first listen, I feel that Julia is writing "Marienbad" out of a necessity to have this overstuffed, endless parade of ideas. That it's a natural expression, a pursuit of her muse. Then when she's recorded as "throwing shade" at LDR or whatever it loses the impression of being natural and gains instead some music school hangups and/or resentment of things that are, like, totally different

it's specifically about people haven't learned to really quite perform yet and been thrown in the spotlight way too fast. it's funny because pitchfork has been accused of mentoring those situations.

Anyway she's like new and young and thing, I just thought it was a strange quote to include and gave me the impression that it was deliberately chosen to reframe Julia in a negative light

if it was it worked!

I feel like she was talking about LDR for sure but didn't come right out and say it.

it's not like it's a zero sum game: if there are bands that sing lazy shit into a microphone and put effects on it and people like it, that doesn't mean that other artists who can easily modulate between keys and discuss music theory can't make music. there's room in music for both, and more.

and this is obvious so apologies in advance for mentioning it, but if people like the "lazy" music (i hate myself for adopting that as a description because it's wrong but whatever), why should julia holter or any other trained musician care? it reeks of mid-70s dinosaurs whining about the ramones, and it points to an assumption, even if it's unstated, that more complicated/grounded in theory = better. and also just a kind of jealousy - "some stupid kid in a room with pirated effects modules is landing ahead of me on year end lists, while i, classically trained julia holter, languish in obscurity." well, bullshit, who cares. it's not a zero sum game.

many xposts

flopson your post is so bad

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, December 17, 2012 2:42 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ftr i like lots of amateur music featuring dispassionate singing, but at the same time it's been a few years now and so much of it that's totally awful. not just on the internet or in the media, where it's easier to avoid, but also at shows. not that the existence of this glut negates any of the good stuff, but it's definitely something you might want to kick away from if you've sat through too many sets. i wouldn't put it in the words "putting your soul into it" but i definitely feel like bands that take their performances to a more potentially embarrassing place feel refreshing rn

LDR's not the only person she could have had in mind - it wouldn't fit the bedroom thing anyway, it actually feels like she's taking shots more at people like, idk...salem? there's so much music out there which sounds like being in your bedroom alone on the internet at 2am that she could have been talking about any number of artists. good for her tbh

xp @ some dude, no way man I <3 her forever

i think you're reading more into the quote zs. or at least, you're reading different things than i am into it. i don't imagine she gives a fuck about people's classical training, i think she means more just, like, actual effort and thought and time put into the music

also a weird conflation of technical chops with "putting your soul into it."

it's ok to have never performed before. you gotta start somewhere, if anything it's sound discouraging for new artists.

There's always that first year of interviews where musicians say the dumbest things, not realizing that "we're the best band in the world!" is a great attitude to have around your bandmates and label and family and your own work ethic but that it just doesn't translate into good press

Anyway that Julia quote felt like that to me,

Also "that first year" is a variable period of time for some people :/

I agree with that flopson but my stance on this is that there is no harm in doing anything so let people release as much similar sounding shit as they want and then maybe 20 years down the line there'll be a bunch of disposable bands from ages ago w/ one good idea on their release that can be sampled

xp @ some dude, no way man I <3 her forever

― you, your max is on fire (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, December 17, 2012 3:06 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah but the fact that this thread is about her now because of that quote and not in a "you go, girl" way suggests that if it was an attempt to reframe her in a negative light it was successful

also a weird conflation of technical chops with "putting your soul into it."

i.e. weird because technical ability and passion/soul are often framed as opposites in the rock/indie world (not saying i agree with this)

fact is like EVERY young musician believes they are going the grain of a music world that has lost its way, which is fine as a motivating force to get stuff done but should really really be kept in check when speaking in public

please don't dudesplain

can this discussion NOT be about pitchfork or julia holter

lol

i like to consider those topics "off limits" itt

how is my post 'splaining any more than your last couple posts (xp)

for the love of god, let's not talk about Pitchfork on the "Pitchfork is dumb" thread

surprised nobody mentionned anthony's 'should animal collective go to jail' quote.

ah fuck I was jk u idiot

well my feelings weren't hurt before but they definitely are now! :(

I mean if anything I am holding myself back from making a julia holter pussy tastes like joke

and I dont even know who julia holter is

some dude, I guess we're talking about Julia Holter for a moment, but I was making the shaky argument that the JH quote was included deliberately to cast her in a negative light, as opposed to, say, the John Maus one, where it was like "we have passed over all the famously dumb things this man has said to include this innocuous (but still idiomatic) opinion on cannibalism"

Like, "did Pitchfork curated these quotes with an agenda?" of course they did editorially, but it just seemed especially strange

xp "should animal collective go to jail"? really? i missed that one

wow pitchfork picked a quote from andrew wk about partying, how profound, how utterly worthy