The Legion Of Super Heroes: Classic Or Dud?

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Good question. I read them as exceedingly well-executed continuity porn, but I can sort of imagine somebody who'd never heard of the Legion coming to them and pretending this was the first time we'd seen any of these characters. But I don't know, because I'm so used to all the stuff he's playing with. (Every character's first appearance does have a little breakout box explaining their name, powers, etc.)

In other words: I can't answer that.

Douglas, Monday, 12 May 2008 18:41 (eleven years ago) link

Three yays for justifying confusion aesthetically! (I.E. I THINK I WILL HAVE A GO, DONCHA KNOW?)

R Baez, Monday, 12 May 2008 19:13 (eleven years ago) link

It's fun. I'm not a Legion nerd at all -- I've read a couple of the 5YL issues, and the first year or so of the Waid/Kitson Legion -- but it's pretty easy to follow. The continuity-wank aspects seem largely incidental, and it's a nice, done-in-six story without too many loose ends. As usual, all the non-Braniac characters are largely indistinguishable, but it doesn't really matter as far as the story goes.

Also, in what might be a rare moment of sentimentality for Geoff Johns, no one gets their arms ripped off. Or any other appendages, if I remember right.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 12 May 2008 20:25 (eleven years ago) link

I think you could read that Action comics storyline with no prior knowledge to the older Legion stories. I think the way Johns wrote that story is partially to try to introduce people to the Legion. The book does a pretty good job dropping a box to tell you who is who in the beginning of the book and puts some back ground into the actual storyline.

To me, I think the fact that the Legion takes place 1000 years in the future should give whoever is doing the book free reign to go where you want. I kind of like the idea that there have been many different versions of the Legion, some with evolved beginnings and even ends.

Some of the fans of the older series don't seem to like the Waid newer Legion, but from my reading (through issue #14), I think it is pretty good.

I don't understand DC's reprint strategy, but it seems to me if they had the Levitz/Giffen stuff in a big phone book reprint they would sell very well. Take mind, there is a bunch of stuff I think that should be in print like that. I can see wanting to print stuff 'in order' or in fancy nice trades, but there are lots of stuff that still ties into current books that people can only read if they want to dive into the back issue bins.

earlnash, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 02:53 (eleven years ago) link

The showcases are pretty much gold.

forksclovetofu, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 04:47 (eleven years ago) link

What Earl said re: Action/Legion. Especially for a Johns comic, it's not that mired in any Legion continuity...if anything, it seems to be a whole new thing (inasmuch as any LOSH story can be whole and new). The 1-issue epilogue, despite VERY SHITTY art, is really good too.

Dr. Superman, Tuesday, 13 May 2008 22:41 (eleven years ago) link

one year passes...

Worth getting Waid's fifth (last?) volume?

Leee, Sunday, 5 July 2009 17:52 (ten years ago) link

Not at all anticipating Lee-Johns of Superheroes.

nine years pass...

As we're talking about this on the other thread...

a) Tell me why I should keep reading the Great Darkness Saga when it's so goddamn confusing and slow

b) GM's Green Lantern comic was the most SPACE FUN thing I've seen from DC in a while

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 26 November 2018 15:35 (one year ago) link

Incidentally, I ordered a copy of Great Darkness Saga based on discussion in the other thread, having not read any of the Giffen-era stuff that everyone raves about.

I bought the five b&w Showcase books as they were released, thinking I might finally have the opportunity to collect and read this stuff from the beginning, but then DC in typical DC fashion decided to start a new line of HCs that leapfrogged over like 30 issues (which, tbf, were previously collected...in Archive editions that are now long out of print and selling for hundreds of dollars). But the discussion here made me decide to get over my ire and push on with whatever I'm able to get my hands on.

Fantasy Eyelid (Old Lunch), Monday, 26 November 2018 15:45 (one year ago) link

I have a definite soft spot for the LSH's sprawling unmanageable mess of a cast and its inherently goofy Silver Age roots and yet oddly I have never read the Great Darkness saga.

Οὖτις, Monday, 26 November 2018 16:34 (one year ago) link

the legion is one of the few glaring blind-spots in my dc knowledge - their continuity has been fucked with so much i literally have no idea where to begin

sign up for my waterless urinals webinar (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 26 November 2018 16:53 (one year ago) link

the fact that their continuity is such a mess makes it more enjoyable in my experience, cuz you can pretty much start anywhere! I've read chunks of both the Silver and Bronze Age runs, plus a fair chunk of the Giffen/Levitz run in the 80s (my first exposure) up through the death of Lightning Lass. Haven't read anything after that though.

Οὖτις, Monday, 26 November 2018 17:02 (one year ago) link

ie, you can p much ignore continuity and still enjoy it. The relative non-descript characterizations make this easier as well - so many of the characters are interchangable or barely fleshed out. The ones with distinct personalities do tend to come to the fore (Bouncing Boy, Brainiac 5, Wildfire) as a matter of course, the rest are often window-dressing

Οὖτις, Monday, 26 November 2018 17:04 (one year ago) link

Waid's mid-00s reboot was good, I think

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 26 November 2018 17:11 (one year ago) link

a) Tell me why I should keep reading the Great Darkness Saga when it's so goddamn confusing and slow

If you're not feeling it at the beginning/middle, I can't say it'll all necessarily "come together" for you by the end -- it just gets even more complex, IIRC (the drawn-out climax involves things happening simultaneously in like 12 different settings).

my guitar friend wants his money (morrisp), Monday, 26 November 2018 18:16 (one year ago) link

a) Tell me why I should keep reading the Great Darkness Saga when it's so goddamn confusing and slow

it's only five issues long, and four of those issues are 23 pages! the confusion is deliberate, with mysterious buildup things happening all over the galaxy-or-whatever leading to a big blowout.

b) GM's Green Lantern comic was the most SPACE FUN thing I've seen from DC in a while

#iwanttobelieve

Incidentally, I ordered a copy of Great Darkness Saga based on discussion in the other thread, having not read any of the Giffen-era stuff that everyone raves about.

...the above said, the story works approx 18x better if you start reading another five or ten issues earlier than the Great Darkness Saga-labelled issues themselves, as the buildup is actually laced throughout them. Also, the collection spoils the ending on the front cover.

Bing The Mighty Seat (sic), Monday, 26 November 2018 18:52 (one year ago) link

plus what Morris said

Bing The Mighty Seat (sic), Monday, 26 November 2018 18:52 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

“*Ultra Boy can only use one power at a a time” — klassic kaption

Love the idea of new readers randomly picking up the thread with, say, Baxter Series #7 (the ish I’m currently reading).

underqualified backing vocalist (morrisp), Wednesday, 26 December 2018 05:00 (one year ago) link

When creating a decades-long–running franchise with 30+ core characters, it’s important to give them memorable names like Imra, Ayla, Tinya, and, er, Garth.

underqualified backing vocalist (morrisp), Wednesday, 26 December 2018 05:20 (one year ago) link

I’m Laurel Kent, scantily-clad descendent of Superman, and absolutely not a robot. No tie-in retcons in my future, honest. Now someone find me a strand of black thread, I need to get dressed.

underqualified backing vocalist (morrisp), Wednesday, 26 December 2018 05:26 (one year ago) link

Timberwolf receives a fax in this issue.

underqualified backing vocalist (morrisp), Wednesday, 26 December 2018 05:36 (one year ago) link

Lol - quality liveblogging!

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 26 December 2018 15:45 (one year ago) link

six months pass...

How do you do, fellow kids? We’re the Bendis Legion, from the totally rad 32nd Century, where absolutely no one ever tries too hard to look cool:

https://static3.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/SUPER15-CVR.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=450&dpr=1.5

stan by me (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 14:17 (seven months ago) link

Rokk and Garth look like such a$$holes on that cover, I just can’t get over it.

stan by me (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:03 (seven months ago) link

Cool to see the resurgence of the alt-right undercut in the far future.

I Ate Those Food (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:11 (seven months ago) link

New team member: Pr0ud Boy

stan by me (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:13 (seven months ago) link

guess the reich lasting a thousand years was underestimating it huh

coroner criticises butt (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:13 (seven months ago) link

I mean...I know what company we're discussing here, but how could they possibly fail to be sensitive to those optics at this point in time? Particularly when another arm of the same company featured an alt-right dude with the same do as the big bad in the most recent season of Supergirl?

And: Why do I even ask these questions anymore?

I Ate Those Food (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:20 (seven months ago) link

no but u see there's a native american tracker character with 'spirit' powers so it's diverse

coroner criticises butt (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:23 (seven months ago) link

Plus other characters have, like, purple skin and stuff (here’s the cover of 2nd ish):

https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/LOSH-MILLENIUM-2-final-600.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=450&dpr=1.5

stan by me (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:59 (seven months ago) link

the legion doesn't care if you're black, white, purple

coroner criticises butt (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:00 (seven months ago) link

White, black, Winathian
Everybody just a-freakin’

stan by me (morrisp), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:03 (seven months ago) link

I know this reboot isn't for me, and yet ... I kinda wanna flip through ish #1 anyway

Lactose Shaolin Wanker (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:04 (seven months ago) link

I can’t think of anyone whose take on the LSH I’d be less interested in than Bendis’, but I also don’t know the names of anyone else who’s prepared to write for DC these days.

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:12 (seven months ago) link

I will for sure be checking it out, for better or worse.

stan by me (morrisp), Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:25 (seven months ago) link

one month passes...

Bendis interview.

What we’re getting to do, with all these seeds, it’s similar to what I did on Ultimate Spider-Man, which is cherry pick the best things about the characters and the world and put them in this beautiful stew of everything that’s great about the Legion and put it out in a modern story. That’s what my job on Ultimate Spider-Man was, and I realized, “Oh my God, the Legion doesn’t exist here; we can create the Ultimate Legion,” for lack of a better word. This is literally like every era of Legion, all the best parts put into ours.

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Sunday, 18 August 2019 03:26 (six months ago) link

Uh

Οὖτις, Sunday, 18 August 2019 15:12 (six months ago) link

I guess I should be glad its not being touted as grim n gritty

Οὖτις, Sunday, 18 August 2019 15:16 (six months ago) link

Like all Bendis stuff, it’ll probably be good without ever being great, but probably a bunch better than whatever usual C-lister would do (i.e. a Tony Bedard type)

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 18 August 2019 17:07 (six months ago) link

(I am not at all sentimentally attached to LOSH which prob helps)

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 18 August 2019 17:08 (six months ago) link

It probably goes without saying, but the other two major LSH reboots were also set in a universe where the Legion didn’t already exist; and their creators also put a “modern” spin on aspects of the previous Legion teams. I‘m sure Bendis has some tricks up his sleeve... but it feels like that cliché of doing the same thing over & over again, and expecting different results.

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Monday, 19 August 2019 05:30 (six months ago) link

But this time they're going to eat pizza!

Frederik B, Monday, 19 August 2019 07:54 (six months ago) link

You forgot the apostrophe in p'izza.

Amply Drizzled with Pure Luxury (Old Lunch), Monday, 19 August 2019 11:40 (six months ago) link

Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie would probably do something interesting with the Legion but...

Kieron Gillen @ Worldcon
‏Verified account @kierongillen

(Don't say Legion of Superheroes. Any LoS fan would hate what I would do with LoS.)
10:44 AM - 24 Jul 2019

earlnash, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 01:40 (six months ago) link

they would hate him calling it LoS

quelle sprocket damage (sic), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 02:11 (six months ago) link

I was gonna say...

Stub yr toe on the yacht rock (morrisp), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 02:52 (six months ago) link

The New 52–era "Legion Lost" run was awful

#YABASIC (morrisp), Friday, 20 September 2019 19:35 (five months ago) link

you can tell the Adventure run is desperately spotty stuff by random writers who Weisinger hadn't terrorised away, when you compare to how consistent & psychologically curious the Siegel stories are

the Action run is v nothingy, and tbh most of the 70s apart from Levitz' shaky first sesh is hackwork. even Shooter's return was unnecessary, having lost what naive spark made the teenage Jim useful at writing teenage power fantasies.

Tom McCraw run worthless for sure.

Haven't read since then apart from the occasional Levitz/Giffen reunion and skimming early Waid issues in the shop.

now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Friday, 20 September 2019 19:39 (five months ago) link

Mmm the McCraw run wasn't mindblowing stuff, for sure, but I do remember it fondly. It was the first Legion reeboot, so watching the new continuity unfold and just seeing how they had tinkered with the past (Invisible Kid is alive again! Projectra is a giant snake! The Ferro Lad death is now a big crossover!) was intriguing and fun.

Shooter Mark 2 was unnecessary indeed, but I do have a soft spot for his "not that weird but not quite straight forward either" style of writing, and the art of Manapul made it passable.

I had totally forgotten about that new-52 series, though. Seeing Fabian Nicieza in his wikipedia entry waving that issue really sends shiver down my spine.

cpl593H, Friday, 20 September 2019 20:36 (five months ago) link

Shooter mk 1 was 60s, mk 2 was 70s, 21st century was mk 3

now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Friday, 20 September 2019 21:12 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

Picked up issue #1 of this. Tons of fragmentary, jokey Bendis dialogue; a storyline that hinges on an artifact from the present-day DCU; and a major plot twist that, surprisingly, hearkens back to the “5YL” era (I won’t spoil it). Guess the issue was fine as an introduction; hard to really evaluate it beyond those bullet-points.

quinn morgendorffer stan account (morrisp), Saturday, 9 November 2019 23:50 (three months ago) link

Well, these guys found a lot more to say about the issue than I did... Really good write-up (full of spoilers, fyi).

quinn morgendorffer stan account (morrisp), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 04:17 (three months ago) link

One other thing I’ll mention is that I feel like the artwork in the first few pages may be an homage to Stuart Immonen’s Legion work (especially since the style sort of changes later); but I’m not versed enough to say that for sure.

quinn morgendorffer stan account (morrisp), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 05:09 (three months ago) link

I'll take this opportunity to go on record to say that I am NOT a fan of several of the Legionnaire designs. Karate Kid in particular, as he is clearly wearing a (stereo)typical Chinese queue hair style. Please someone tell DC that "karate" is Japanese, not Chinese. If Val is now Chinese, shouldn't he be called Kung Fu Kid?

have we learned nothing from the jackie chan karate kid ffs

Titanic was cliched Marxist crap. (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 09:53 (three months ago) link

two months pass...

Pretty brutal takedown of issue #3 on that blog: http://legionofsuperbloggers.blogspot.com/2020/01/lsh-v8-3.html

stop creeping my instagram storiez (morrisp), Tuesday, 21 January 2020 04:21 (four weeks ago) link

tldr; art looked nice though

Nhex, Tuesday, 21 January 2020 14:59 (four weeks ago) link

I've basically come around to the opinion that, aside from his anomalous Avengers work, BMB should basically only write solo books. He is generally good-to-very good when he does that, and he is generally mediocre-to-awful when he writes teams of characters. BMB on LOSH seems...I don't want to say 'nightmarish' but somewhere in that ballpark.

Dr. Teeth and the Women (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 21 January 2020 15:04 (four weeks ago) link


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