Roger Clemens - Classic Or Dud?

I wonder if Clemens thanks Dan Duquette for inadvertently putting the foot in his ass following his less-than-glorious departure from Fenway. And didn't Clemens break from his Blue Jay contract specifically to get traded / become a free agent?

Is it just me, or should the reps of Clemens and Bonds be swapped? If Bonds had 1/100th of Clemens' affability when it comes to schmoozing, he'd probably be just as oddly untarnished as the Model Rocket is, despite Clemens' list of wrongs putting Bonds' list to shame.

7 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 11 K

7-0

Astros record pre-6/24*: 38-34 (52.7% win percent)
Clemens stats pre-6/24*: 19 Starts, 10-2, 2.73 ERA

Astros record post-6/24*: 54-36 (60.0% win percent)
Clemens stats post-6/24*: 14 Starts, 8-2, 3.41 ERA

*date of Beltran 3-way trade between KC, OAK and HOU

haha I should be banned from posting on a baseball board.

2004 - (92-70) Attendance 3087872 --Their highest attendance ever and a big playoff appearance with their first playoff series win in franchise history.

2003 - (87-75) Attendance 2454241 --They finished a game out of first and yet their attendance was a half million tickets down.

The Astros got a great year out of Clemens last year for below what it should have cost for a pitcher of his stature. Take the money that he made last year and add it to what he is making this next season and it most likely evens out. Criminy if I could get a 13 million dollar raise at work, I sure would put in for one.

Kinda hard to argue now that he's not the best pitcher of the last 60 years.

-- gygax!

if only gygax! was still around to see how right he was in the end. ; (

Dude, as a Cubs fan you should remember that you have Wood/Prior/Zambrano/Clement... I'd take those 4

5.09 ERA
1.42 WHIP

But he took one for the team yesterday! On the road! That's veteran leadership! I'd love to see Captain Pistfump try that shit!

Also: lol @ his numbers before actually seeing an AL team.

5.32 ERA

no k vs. the orioles potent AND patient lineup.

yeah, the lineup w/ mel mora, jay gibbons and corey patterson.

HA!

HE MINIMIZED DAMAGE AND KEPT US IN THE GAME AND THAT IS ALL WE ASK OF HIM

HAHA

Andy, I didn't know you were stumping for Torre's job!

I still think Yanks will win 85-88 in spite of Rog.

They were on pace for that w/out Rajah, after their spurtable spurt against the lowest of the low in the AL & NL (and, um, Boston) (&, yeah, Clemens "helped" during that stretch, but minimally) - problem is, 88 wins will leave them at least 5 GB of the wildcard, & 10+ in back of the Red Sox.

(go O's!)

yes, this is the year Fistpump gets to be Fox playoff analyst.

They're gonna need to separate Jeter & McCarver w/ some Popemobile-strength bullet-proof plastic.

why would they need to do that? to stop mccarver from planting giant sloppy kisses on jeter?

Who in tarnation is captain pistfump?

http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/images/thumb/f/f1/Jeter.jpg/250px-Jeter.jpg

http://news.com.com/i/ne/p/2005/1312005jeter350x306.jpg
http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Derek-Jeter---2003-World-Series-Game-Action-Photofile-Photograph-C10114200.jpeg
http://enquirer.com/editions/2001/11/01/jeter_zoom.jpg

why would they need to do that? to stop mccarver from planting giant sloppy kisses on jeter?

well duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

giant, sloppy kisses if we're lucky!

wait, but what about his rodness, the rod?

As an analyst?

the rod doesn't analyze...i mean things besides his own awesomeness?

you just hate him because he's biracial

Not to mention good-looking.

Slappy & Pumpy broke up

roger and andy are still going strong

"I'll probably look at the history at another time. I hope this is something that my body is telling me I'm getting stronger." -- Clemens, who will turn 45 next month, on winning No. 350

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070703/thumb.65a884f91a4f412e93fd1445d58a3741.twins_yankees_baseball_nyy111.jpg

YOU SHOULD GET BACK IN THE GAME ROGER CLEMENS

THE END IS NEAR.

Someone get him his poultice.

i saw clemens pitch against the chisox at a spring training game in 1986. he signed my baseball. other people who signed that baseball that day: jim rice & johnny pesky. it's in a cardboard box, slowly dwindling in value.

I would think in terms of Boston baseball lore, that would be a pretty desirable baseball. (I don't know--is Clemens still a villain there, or has enough time passed?)

enough time has passed. no i think you're probably right. and it's That Team, too - Rich Gedman's on there. Steve Lyons. Marty fucking Barrett.

reading this thread for the first time and, damn, y'all are harsh.

I have no beef with the Rocket though to be fair I was not a baseball fan in the 80s-90s so maybe it was different then. He made a good chicken in the Simpsons.

A comment by Bill James today--"I think (Teddy Higuera) probably had as many really great games as anybody in our lifetime did in a five-year period, not including the 1960s where you have Gibson and Koufax and Drysdale and others"--prompted me to look him up. I remember him as good, but I don't get this at all:

In '86, Clemens' breakthrough season, Clemens threw more innings than Higuera, gave up fewer runs, fewer earned runs, 50 fewer hits, fewer walks, fewer HR, and struck out 30 more batters. Higuera led in bWAR, though, 9.4 to Clemens' 8.8. I find this baffling. I mean, Clemens had one more HBP, three more balks, and eight more wild pitches, but how much does that count for? And Clemens pitched in Fenway.

Sent this in (big surprise) as an "Ask Bill," which in turn ended up as a Tom Tango tweet.

So, @baseball_ref does an OUTSTANDING job in laying out WHY their WAR numbers are what they are. You may disagree as to the individual components, but they are extremely transparent about it.

cc: @billjamesonline

So, let's take it, step by step...https://t.co/ipZtAEsuaB pic.twitter.com/QA6Eqbh5l8

— Tangotiger (@tangotiger) November 21, 2022

"Tom Tango tweet"--will one day rival "toy boat" as a tongue twister.

Clemons will always have the headwind of being a total asshole.

*Clemens. Fuck.

Read “Clemons” in the voice of Cajun man