MANIC STREET PREACHERS Best Album Poll

... of the Holy Bible, I meant.

Holy Bible (never bothered with the redux reissue; didn't think I needed to) but Lifeblood is the most underrated.

res otm

Holy Bible is the only one I was ever into.

Not sure if res otm or not. I think the lyrics are absolutely sincere - it's just that they're only there to provide examples of the deeper idea - a howl for honesty and against tokenism. I don't think there's a deep commitment to capital punishment as an end to strive for, say, but there is a deep commitment to capital punishment as a logical end IF the purpose of the justice system is moral condemnation. But he takes no view on whether that is its right purpose or not, he just wants a proper facing up to the consequences. The PC stuff is absolutely of a piece, given that its whole purpose is a pretence to avoid consequences

These are pretty contradictory and difficult issues and about as out there as pop music is ever likely to get (it's pretty crazy stuff to try to address in three-minute lyrics - one of those slim Camus books would be a better format than your epic Russian novel I reckon) so it's hard to know what *I* think about it, let alone to work out whether I agree with you. In any case, it's hardly risible.

"Fuck the Brady Bill" is pretty risible. Their idea that gun control would "disenfranchise the black communities who don't have licences. The white rednecks in America do have licences" (Wire) is something of a minority reading.

And "a proper facing up to the consequences" is surely what the string 'em up brigade have always called for. Richey said "it isn't a right-wing song, but a lot of people don't like seeing a rapist get off with a £25 fine". That "but" seems to be doing the same work as in "I'm not a racist but..."

(it's pretty crazy stuff to try to address in three-minute lyrics - one of those slim Camus books would be a better format than your epic Russian novel I reckon)

OTM, the album always struck me as wildly over-ambitious lyrically, even as a moping teen, which is perhaps part of its power.

Sure these are difficult issues. To accept the straw man, no, a lot of people don't like seeing a rapist get off with a £25 fine. But I'm not sure how a song apparently advocating sterilisation, thus occupying the other extreme end of the spectrum which is already well covered in the mainstream media, contributes to the debate. OTOH "all I preach is extinction" is a great nihilistic howl so it succeeds at some level. xp.

I couldn't go at it quote-for-quote xp, but isn't that last bit exactly what I was getting at (taking 'face up to the consequences' to mean facing up to the consequences of your choice)? Namely either be tough on crime and punish properly, or take some other approach like rehabilitation and do that properly - don't say you're tough on crime and then fine rapists/release everyone early/plant bilingual signs around Bosnia

re: quoting, I just had the biog to hand :) But I still don't see how the song differs from a standard right-wing POV. Maybe I misunderstand, but it sounds like you're saying they're aiming for a kind of Modest Proposal - but if that's the case it's not outrageous enough, since their proposal would be deemed quite reasonable by a fair number of people.

I'd forgotten about the intro - it rather suggests the target is the contradiction between the seeking of capital punishment and condemnation of the killer for the same actions, with the nationalism theme suggesting that the distinction is an arbitrary one. Not what I'd had in mind, but maybe the modest proposal is an accurate reading of it

(NB the site I used for the lyrics offers an 'Archives of Pain' ringtone)

How in the hell could you ever think these lyrics, especially on the Holy Bible, are sincere? Was the part of your brain that detects irony cut out through your nose or something? The lyrics are so typically 90s "screw the world and system! humans are animals!" type shit.

It's like listening to Crass - Penis Envy and thinking they're all dowdy, uber-conservative traditionalist women.

Well that's me told

burt stanton straight to the point

burt stanton never suffered from teenage angst

Generation Terrorists is the only one I've ever heard, so I guess I'll vote for it.

Whatever else the Holy Bible's politics are — extreme, experimental, confused, sometimes nuts — they're not ironic. Remember it was in part inspired by visiting Auschwitz, so there's a sincere fascination with stark moral choices, retribution for hideous crimes, and the potential for anyone, under certain circumstances, to do repellent things. The band have talked about reaching the point where extreme left-wing ideas meet extreme right-wing ones. It's not meant to be comfortable or even entirely coherent but it sure as hell isn't ironic.

"Fuck the Brady Bill" is pretty risible.

again, misinterpreted I think. The full lyrics go

"Fuck the Brady Bill / Fuck the Brady Bill / If God made man they say / Sam Colt made him equal"

The "they say" is integral to understand that it's not his own opinion; he's criticizing the irony of America's puritanical values and its religious and moral high horse, and how it contradicts with the apparent attitudes of the people who supposedly espouse those beliefs.

"Yet your morals only run / as deep as the surface"

In other words, Americans talk about being high-minded and deeply religious, but ultimately those religious values are ones that people wear like clothing and wield like weapons. Ultimately, they do not 'trust' God and his plans like they claim to; instead, they believe in their own justice that they can administer themselves through their guns. Any attempt to curb that right to guns reverts American life to the unsettling world that God made, whereas the guns-- in their minds-- provides the equality and justice that their God never could.

Some of the tracks on Generation Terrorists were better in their earlier ep form

Yeah, to me it was all about their early 12" EP's. The album was kindof overblown and overdone, though it had a few good tracks. I quit paying attention to them after GT.

"Everything Must Go" is the most consistent although "This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours" contains the best songs and is easily the most underrated one.

"The Holy Bible" is the worst, in spite of some great lyrics. "She Is Suffering" is great tho.

HB is the worst?? You're nuts! Every song on that is fucking amazing.

They lack the anthemic quality that Manics at their best have.

Geir Hongro is the resident controversial opinionist. Anyway, I think people are misinterpreting what irony means.

Yes Geir bringing the challops. Incorrect in this case though.

TIMTTMY is the worst Mondeo Pop album of all time

It's not that bad but it does have one of the worst songs ever made The Everlasting

That's not even the worst song on that album (hi dere SYMM)! I'd go for the Holy Bible as the closest they've made to a really good album, but I don't think they've ever made a wholly consistent one.

"The Everlasting" is the best song on the entire album, and possibly the best Manics song ever. A fantastic singalong anthem representing 90s Britpop at its very best!

"She Is Suffering" is, on the other hand, the only track on "The Holy Bible" with sufficient singalong qualities.

Yep, singalongability is exactly what I look for in my nihilistic songs about the holocaust, anorexia, etc too.

I don't look for nihilistic songs. Period.

LIFEBLOOD is 50 % amazing. there's a cult of people who think it's in their top 3 albums. i'm in that cult!

holy bible is great but the debut it is

gt is kind of a masterpiece -- a lot of it is awful, but its sheer ridiculousness stood out at the time (and really would prob stand out at any time). gats has a couple of good songs but aged pretty poorly. holy bible is still surprisingly gritty and exciting as music (james bradfield surely gave his best ever vocals here), and a lot of the lyrics ("yes," "die in the summertime") even stand up as poetry, or something closer to it than most pop lyrics. i never listen to EMG but most of it probably still holds up. liked know your enemy a lot at the time, haven't heard it in years.

Trust Geir to have as his fave manics song the one i hate most.

LIFEBLOOD is 50 % amazing.

can you list the songs you think this of?

It's not that bad but it does have one of the worst songs ever made The Everlasting

whoa, whoa, whoa.... that song's great! the first few times I thought it was forced, but now I find it to be among their best songs, and one of their most affecting.

IF YOU STAND UP LIKE A NAIL

fUCK YOU

God, I remember thinking "I've been too honest with myself, I should have lied like everybody else" was the greatest thing I'd ever heard. I was WAY old enough to know better at that point as well.

There are no bad tracks on the 1st three ablums, I'm gonna vote GT to balance out the contrarianism a bit.

I don't look for nihilistic songs. Period.

WHY THE HOLY FUCK ARE YOU LISTENING TO THE MANICS THEN?

Ailsa otm

I'm a bit amazed at how popular this band seem to be here

but you're delighted about it?

Couldn't be less delighted

These guys sell out arenas in Europe, right? Cause in America they're completely obscure.

I don't pay attention to their lyrics very much, and could care less about their politics. But Know Your Enemy is a great rock album, particularly Epicentre.

I don't pay attention to their lyrics very much, and could care less about their politics.

Yeah I feel this way about the Democrats.

Are they big in mainland Europe or just here in the UK? (stan m to thread?)

i like the way Sean looks in that photo. He looks like he's about 12 years old.

V big in Thailand apparently.

anyway Brad maintains the ability to anticipate how I hear things a few months in advance cause RIF now sounds like another strong album when I was sure it represented a step down. so I remain thinking their consistency is sort of ridiculous at this point.

oh, and for anyone out there still looking for hidden gems, the recent b-side "Mirror Gaze" should have been on the album proper, and not only because of its great opening lyric "I've made some sense of emptiness / I've learned to love me less and less" and its clear debt to "Blinded by the Light". (the Wire-sung "Concrete Fields" is surprisingly good too)

for some reason I keep forgetting Rewind the Film exists and then it knocks me out every year when the weather starts to cool

also "the endless parade of old Etonian scum line the front benches, so what is to be done?" is extra satisfying at the moment

https://i.imgur.com/CO4c4nE.jpg

I know it has...some detractors on here...but every year I like TIMTTMY more. it's their Up - overlong and eternally grey. which i love

nah, it's mostly crap.

I also quite like it. It's probably two songs too long but the sustained sullen mood it hits makes it stand out among the four Manics albums I've heard

been really digging the late records lately...mostly pretty sad/weary songs by aging dudes who know/sense that things are pretty unlikely to change drastically for the better in their lifetimes. I made a lil playlist of the best post-JFPL stuff for the curious

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4NZ4Po28IbM49eefsOIJAx?si=663f94e2bbf34c0e

Oh that's handy, i haven't heard the last one at all. Futurology was remarkable for a band so long in the tooth, can't think of any bands from that era who have pulled something that good off in the last ten years, i was properly amazed.

of the post-JFPL albums I'd go

Rewind the Film
Postcards From a Young Man
Futurology
Resistance is Futile

a couple decent b-sides in this period as well. they should pester underworld to produce their next one.

I am surprised Gold Against The Soul did as well as it did because it is my favorite Manics album and I thought my vast minority was more vast than that.