C/D ::: Tortoise's TNT

Thanks, Hurting! Ha, I don't think I could bring myself do that, but McEntire did just mix a record that the guitarist is on (Cougar), so there's some connection.

I thought "Standards" had a few really good tracks and some that were kind of meh. I still haven't picked up the last one and missed Tortoise on tour for the first time in a long time.

I was listening to Isis' "Oceanic" while driving at night this past Saturday and I couldn't help but notice how one selection reminded me a bit of Tortoise.

oh my god it took me way too long to figure out this album is amazing

oh yeah, killer album. I only own this and Standards but I pull this one out way more often

you ought to check out millions now living

this is a beautiful album and there are also autechre and derrick carter remixes

i bought a copy of millions now living when i was 14, i think trying to understand that record before i had any real context for it was... p influential on the kinds of music i was drawn to for years

my faves were always millions and standards, for some reason i found tnt too sleepy? but that’s why it’s so good

I've def heard Millions before, just never been lucky enough to find a thrift-store copy (which is the source of 99% of my CDs)

Millions and TNT both stone cold classics but nigh on incomparable imo. The latter is so warm and, indeed, sleepy and dreamlike. Millions more of a 'statement' record, albeit a truly remarkable one. It's funny how for quite an abstract track the the title song is etched into my memory, every twist and turn.

Also, I'm not a real vinyl stan but the lp version of TNT just fucking grooves like the cd doesn't?

Never managed to really get into Millions (too cold) and never cared much for Standards (too atonal), but TNT is probably amongst the ten most beautiful albums I know. Sometimes I'll pull it out to hear a specific riff or segue, just to end up listening to the whole damn thing.

This is still the one for me, it still has a lot of magic. And I always forget about some of the more heavily electronic sections near the end.

I think the self-titled is the cold one - cold to the bone (and it has Bundy Brown: truly, we are not worthy). Millions is more expansive and open. TNT even more so.

There was an ILM contingent that used to talk a lot of shit about Tortoise iirc, but I think we all tend to abandon certain musical prejudices as we age (unless we are just stuck-in-the-mud assholes). I love this album.

FWIW TNT was actually the one that was the way in for me -- when I first heard the s/t I thought the people repping it to me had lost their minds.

i like the s/t ok but it's mostly interesting bc of where they went afterward

The best way to hear the first 2 releases (Tortoise + Rhythms, Resolution & Clusters) is this nifty JP special edition that's like a seamless mix of the source material and some remixes and ephemera. Kinda renders the previous two moot:

https://www.discogs.com/Tortoise-A-Digest-Compendium-Of-The-Tortoises-World/master/3946

Relistening to TNT now, it's funny how people are Jeff Parker this/that, but Pajo is all over this, I guess people forgot he was still in the band at this point.

"The Suspension Bridge At Iguazu Falls" has a major section that is a pretty blatant rip-off of "The Theme From Endless Summer" from The Sandals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzh4i0u5Gto

Oh shit I was just at Iguazu Falls, I really missed an opportunity

I always found it slightly amusic/annoying that they "rip off" Steve Reich but basically just do repetitive marimba shit that sounds vaguely steve reichy without any of the interesting phase-shifting aspect that makes Steve Reich's music what it is. I forgive them for it though.

Lol, which reminds me of the time I saw them close the Bang on a Can festival and just look pathetically sloppy following the musicians that played the rest of it. Again, forgiven though, still love the boys.

iirc Pajo left the group partway through recording this - so some of it is him and some of it is Parker, right?

It's funny to think that one of their best albums is also their "transitional" album. i.e., they very much settled into a sound once Parker joined the group and their lineup finally solidified. You can hear inklings of their past and their future in this record, but it's also arguably better than everything that came after.

Could be a fun thread - "superior 'transitional' albums". (Though I can't think of any other examples.)

I am overall a bigger fan of Parker Tortoise than Pajo Tortoise, even though I love Pajo. They sound a little too clean in the Pajo era at times, and Parker's off-kilter melodies spice things up a bit.

I'm a fan of every era, to be clear. Though as much as I like Parker's playing I do feel like the group in general has settled into something over the last 2-3 albums. I wish they'd shake it up a little more.

I saw them play years back and everything was very good and very nice and then they closed with Djed and you could just feel the ambition of that track. They've never really felt *ambitious* in a long time.

Could be a fun thread - "superior 'transitional' albums". (Though I can't think of any other examples.)

― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Thursday, February 7, 2019 4:37 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

love this idea. i'm sure i love a few that qualify

I sometimes feel like music sort of "caught up" with them, and then they didn't really have a way to push things further.

I remember reading that TNT was their first album with Pro Tools, but in a small rehearsal space with minimal gear, so they had to laboriously record it one instrument at a time. Not a scenario they would want to repeat I'm sure, but it really worked.

ts: "la jetee" vs. "jetty"

wrong album but i'm listening to millions now living rn and "glass museum" whips a ton of ass, i nearly forgot

take it to the millions now living thread bub

I like me some TNT, but I'll go with "La Jetee" every time fwiw--that first Isotope record is so much fun.

I first heard that Isotope record in a store on the outskirts of Denver - one of those record store experiences that stay with you. It's great.

I like the 'sloppy' comment upthread. They *are* kinda sloppy. Whenever I've seen them live I'm always kind of stunned by how sloppy Herndon and McEntire are. None of which is a criticism.

It wasn’t something that had ever struck me seeing them live in the past, but watching them follow a bunch of conservatory trained musicians sort of brought it into relief.

I always recommend Gastr del Sol's Camoufleur as a twofer for those who dig TNT (and who doesn't). They came out around the same time and have a similar sound/vibe. They're somewhat inseparable in my mind from being in constant rotation during the spring/summer of '98.

If there's a criticism to be levelled at Tortoise it's that their a po-faced old bunch - even their playfulness seems studied and stiff. Which is to say, I think Gastr del Sol are too irreverent and whimsical to be Tortoise bedfellows.

I wouldn't say they're terribly similar outfits in general but McEntire played on and produced some of Camofleur so I don't think it's much of a stretch.

(I mean, more broadly I'd recommend the other 'McIntire sound' joints from that era e.g. Dots and Loops and the Spinanes' Arches and Aisles but this particular pairing feels more natural since they were released weeks apart, shared personnel, both had covers featuring abstract sketches on a stark white field, etc.)

That sounded grumpier than I meant it to! Both fab just hadn't really considered them together before.

Nah, didn't take it as grumpy at all, no worries.

Also Tortoise's self-titled debut album doesn't seem to get a ton of praise but I think it's very good and not too distant from their best stuff.

Maaaan, that period of Thrill Jockey/Drag City releases was like a womb within which my musical self gestated. So you have them to blame, I guess.

TNT, Arches and Aisles and Camoufleur (and the first two Isotope records) all very much belong to the same particular time and place for me. Also the first few Sea and Cake records and the Sam Prekop s/t.

Tortoise literally sprang from the original Gastr del Sol lineup so it’s fair to call them bedfellows I think. Obviously they took different paths and added important members later but they are both rooted from the same place.

Yeah, I was thinking sonically, and specifically about Camoufleur, which has led me realise I don't really know early Gastr all that well. Something for the weekend...

A detailed playlist of all the inter-related Chicago stuff from this period would be the thing.

I forgot the first Pullman album was from '98, as well. Again with that same soporific vibe. Quite a neat little nexus at that particular moment.

yeah that's a lesser artifact of the era but still enjoyable

...except for McCombs on "The Suspension Bridge at Iguazu Falls"... oof. Brutal. Went into a deep flubberage mode and never really got out of it.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, March 20, 2019 9:21 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i didn't really notice

xp - thanks!

36:28 is when it starts (about 3 seconds of flubs... he immediately loses all looseness and starts playing stiffer)
then the arpeggiations at 37:35 are flubbed
when he comes back in at 38:07 he starts a series of flubs which sets off a total technical breakdown through the following 30 seconds (!), and while he's struggling to recover, thankfully the end of the song comes before soon.

i spotted doug mccombs at a voivod/yob show on wed night
that guy can't hide anywhere

also ilx tortoiseheads should know that he is also in a new trio called Black Duck with two other chicago people you should check out (MacKay/McCombs/Rumback)

Black Duck is an enigmatic & electric new outfit out of Chicago that features Douglas McCombs and Bill MacKay on guitars, and Charles Rumback on drums. The trio’s propulsive psych-inflected grooves and ethereal improvisations have found enthusiastic favor with fans of varied temperaments and motivations.

man, I've seen Doug McCombs at Whole Foods

I interviewed Doug McCombs back in the day - in a pub on the Grays Inn Road, one of only three interviews I ever did in a shit career move that never quite happened. He was easy company. We spent most of the time talking about ATP wankers and Arnold Odermatt.

That is my Doug McCombs story.

Got sent a link for this by a friend and during track one felt compelled to email them and say I was only watching more if he could assure me that McEntire survived until the end.

lol

"Suspension Bridge ..." is mesmerizing (to watch as well as listen to).

Got sent a link for this by a friend and during track one felt compelled to email them and say I was only watching more if he could assure me that McEntire survived until the end.

― djh, Wednesday, April 3, 2019 3:51 PM (fifty-three minutes ago)

hahaha, he's relaxed like Perry Como in that set compared to the times I've seen them live. Had his stare set to Maim, etc.

I visited that bridge this year, true story

(although I think it's been replaced since TNT came out)