― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:35 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:37 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:38 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:40 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:41 (twenty years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:41 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:42 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:43 (twenty years ago) link
― buttch (Oops), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:44 (twenty years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:44 (twenty years ago) link
― buttch (Oops), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:46 (twenty years ago) link
Actually, along these lines I pulled out the Dif Juz Extractions album a couple months ago, and I think my motivation was exactly along the lines of trying to tease out any aesthetic connections with the nineties groups (atmospheric, instrumental music). But I really couldn't get into it, it seemed blander than the worst post-rock.
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:48 (twenty years ago) link
actually the two biggest influences on the brits are probably mbv and ar kane
― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:50 (twenty years ago) link
(Crossposting bitch!)
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:51 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:52 (twenty years ago) link
Also, were the RT bands specifically trying to distance themselves by name from punk w/use of "post punk"? I don't know enough about the specifics of that world to know whether that was the case, or if it was a term bestowed by confused critics. From the stuff I've now read about post-rock, it seems an epithet that bands try to play down or disclaim; was post-punk different as a term? (Not trying to argue about this; I genuinely don't know at all.)
― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:53 (twenty years ago) link
we must all not forget the influence of SAMPLING (i.e. the bomb squad) which perhaps ties back in with sasha's thread, hurrah!
― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:53 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:55 (twenty years ago) link
I like this. :-)
Sampling! Jess ist un genius.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:55 (twenty years ago) link
But my question is simpler -- is there a lot of sampling visible (ouch, audible, I guess) in this ostensible post-rock community/world/canon?
― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:01 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:12 (twenty years ago) link
But really, there is not much in common with jazz is there? (other than that blasted vibraphone, and the instrumental nature)
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:15 (twenty years ago) link
I'm not deriding the "post-rock" bands - I'm just trying to understand how much substance there is to that label and how much these bands really have in common. I can see why bands would have tried to disown this label: "post-rock" is much worse than "post-punk". "Post-punk" is straightforward enough, meaning bands that came after punk and drew on it. But "rock" is a much bigger target than "punk", and "post-rock" can't escape from its pretentious "rock is dead" implications. It also suggests that these bands are not making rock music, which is a dubious claim. "Rock" is a big umbrella - over the years it has accomodated bands as diverse as Faust, Can, Swell Maps, Captain Beefheart, Kraftwerk, and Supertramp - so to say that these recent bands are really sooo innovative and sooo different as to make them a new animal altogether seems unjustified, at least in many of the cases in which it's been applied.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:16 (twenty years ago) link
what comes after a rock show? the DJ!
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:20 (twenty years ago) link
I'm curious -- Weather Report:yes, others:no due to personal taste, or philosophical/aesthetic kinship?
― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:21 (twenty years ago) link
Yeah, htstencil, there's a similar broadening of music and influences in these two groups of music, but the Rough Trade-rs were still operating from the emotional and political perspective of punk, just giving it more sophisticated and diverse musical setting. The post-rockers seem to aspire to professional artists/muso status by comparison, the emotion and politics (if at all) are consiously very muted...
― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:27 (twenty years ago) link
(70's Miles Davis doesn't seem to, but I always think of this as somehow unclassifiable, or beyond labelling. I guess some of this is subjective, surely.)
― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:34 (twenty years ago) link
..."post-rock" can't escape from its pretentious "rock is dead" implications.
You might wanna blame the coiner of the phrase then (aka Mr. Simon Reynolds) and not the bands saddled with it.
The post-rockers seem to aspire to professional artists/muso status by comparison, the emotion and politics (if at all) are consiously very muted...
Uh, do you mean muted like a shredded American flag on the cover of Standards?
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:38 (twenty years ago) link
― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:41 (twenty years ago) link
― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:42 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:43 (twenty years ago) link
― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:48 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:50 (twenty years ago) link
I do! As I wrote before, I don't blame the bands for trying to disown the tag. I think you're right about this turning out to be as hard to pin down as "post-modernism". In fact, both terms suffer from the same weakness - an inherent lack of substance. Both terms are defined in terms of what they are NOT. But lots of things are NOT modernism, just as lots of things are NOT rock. Therefore, before too long you find the term can be applied to just about anything.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:50 (twenty years ago) link
oy, I meant "lame" in the literal sense of "ineffectual" or "weak", cause an (artfuly?) shredded american flag (particulary on an album cover) (of instrumental music) is an ambiguous symbol at best. I think it has as much political impact as the use of the american flag on the Black Crowe's "Amorica" album ;-)
And "valid" was not my word...
― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:57 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 17:58 (twenty years ago) link
― arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 18:09 (twenty years ago) link
This is Post RockLiving In A Post Rock NationPo 'StroXXX: VolumesIt's Only Post Rock To Me
― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 18:31 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 18:35 (twenty years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 18:39 (twenty years ago) link
(the term shoegazing alone annoys me)
― H (Heruy), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 21:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:50 (twenty years ago) link
well the comparison to post-modernism is completely valid, but I don't think that makes it useless. AT best, you could say that post-rock is a way to define a method or a mindframe rather than an actual recognizable signature sound. Maybe in that case the term cannot qualify as a "genre" but I'm happy with that. As with post-modernism, some guys reached the conclusion that there was really nowhere/nothing to look ahead and therefore started to look sideways (or in many cases looking behind). In other words, as with most other art forms, a general consensus emerged at some point in the 90s around the idea that linear musical "progress" was futile and that, to grow, rock had to incorporate approaches from other genres (and here i'm not talking about merely borrowing sounds or production tricks from other styles of popular western music, ie. "adding a dance element to your music")I guess the idea is not that new and that's why some of the post-rock stuff doesn't sound all that fresh (hello Can, jazz-rock, ...) but, hey, I still see a point in having a term for it.oder?
― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Thursday, 24 April 2003 09:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:12 (twenty years ago) link
fearless is a really great book. though I still think there is a complete division between the US stuff and the UK originated stuff to the point where I don't really think they are they same gentre; but I'm happy to read about all of these bands together I guess.
― akm, Friday, 25 August 2017 16:41 (six years ago) link
I still think there is a complete division between the US stuff and the UK originated stuff to the point where I don't really think they are they same gentre
yes to this, but without slint + gybe it would be hard to connect first wave uk stuff to the quiet/loud boreathons of latter day uk + global post rock
― plp will eat itself (NickB), Friday, 25 August 2017 17:15 (six years ago) link
― akm, Friday, August 25, 2017 9:41 AM (thirty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i sort of agree with this, other than the fact that mogwai - the biggest uk post-rock group? - are hugely influenced by slint (later stuff not so much)
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 25 August 2017 17:22 (six years ago) link
actually i was thinking that this would make a pretty good audio companion to the book and i guess the mix of uk and us wasn't especially jarring to me at the time:
https://image.ibb.co/iTVRrk/moon_men.jpg
https://www.discogs.com/Various-Monsters-Robots-Bug-Men-A-Users-Guide-To-The-Rock-Hinterland/release/178563
― plp will eat itself (NickB), Friday, 25 August 2017 17:23 (six years ago) link
I thought there wasa lot of interplay between bands across the Atlantic anyway. Not sure if results would be immediately recognisable but know taht a band like Bark Psychosis was heavily indebted to the Swans dynamics and both Graham Sutton and John ling hitched following Dinosaur Jr around in '89.
I know taht NYC nouise thing as well as bands like the Butthole Surfers were very popular among bands that went onto be significant in Post-Rock. Also Slint of course.Trying to think what fed back across the opposite direction.
Not got very far into the book, just reading about MBV being a jangle pop band which wasn't the way I remembered seeing them when i did before they became ghuge. I was thinking more noisey garagey stuff verging on psychobilly back in 1986. So was janglepop a transitive stage or was it a longer term thing somehwere between there and '88. Just trying to think when I followed teh first Silverfish tour which was as support for them and by which time i was thinking much more Sonic Youth.I keep coming across things in the book that I disagree with and clunky sentences. So I think she's not going to be one of my prefered writers. I found Seasons They Change far too listy too.
― Stevolende, Friday, 25 August 2017 18:34 (six years ago) link
Has Leech effectively excised all the bands who had ties in with the garage/psychobilly scene's pasts? I haven't seen any reference to the Wolfhounds or the early pre Debbie Googe days of MBV. Would have tghought it might be something taht she might at least refer to possibly as the primitive rock they were supposed to be post i.e. as a major contrast.
Did I hear that MBV actually first formed as ex-pat Irish in Berlin and already had some influence from Einsturzende Neubauten etc from formation or was that a revisionist history at the time.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 26 August 2017 11:14 (six years ago) link
Here to muddy the water further re: "what is post-rock?" how about post-rock 1979-1989:
'Post-Rock 1979-1989': https://t.co/XCJUpvI8J9Post-rock as a continuum of exploration... w/ Gigi Masin, Laughing Hands, Massacre, Michael Brook, @_thisheat_ Hraold Budd, Material, Spacemen 3, Dif Juz, Dome, The Cure, MBV, Glenn Branca, @DuruttiColumn Colin Newman, Talk Talk pic.twitter.com/zT2nMSNzHE— Musicophilia (@musicophiliamix) January 19, 2021
― Soundslike, Tuesday, 19 January 2021 02:24 (three years ago) link
it's when you play the guitar and post to ILX at the same time
― Looking for Cape Penis house (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 19 January 2021 02:25 (three years ago) link
Soundslike, this mix is wonderful! Thank you.
― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Thursday, 21 January 2021 04:25 (three years ago) link
Thank you, glad you're enjoying it!
― Soundslike, Thursday, 21 January 2021 15:40 (three years ago) link
I'd missed this until now: Bundy K Brown's band Directions (In Music, sometimes) released a single in 1997 that seems to have vanished out of sight. It was re-released last year and a couple of the remixes are wonderful. This could be on Underworld's Drift series or the Alabaster DePlume record we all lost our minds over during the first lockdown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUCO5J5E0QA
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Monday, 7 March 2022 12:19 (two years ago) link