is anybody else a recluse

Wow...I am incredibly frustrated with a couple of these messages. Not like aww, isn't that sad but more like ergh! I had a phase like that but thankfully it has passed.

Jean it seems to me that you are still using the common(?) world to justify (word choice?) your life. Introducing yourself by saying I have no ===, no ===, and no === is just as undesirable as talking about baseball games, gardens, or what kind of new haircut you want. Negative positive, positive negative. Truth is probably no one on the other side of society gives a damn, the same way you feel about them. I'm guilty of this too. I did all that "not for me" stuff without the hope of an afterlife or the benefit of having the Goth support group. I was angrier than I interpret you being and I still moved on, perhaps that was because I didn't have a support group of any sort. I just get pissed off at all these us-and-them mentalities from "weird kids" and "preppie kids"-whatever you want to call the groups. There is a game that can be played in this world and perhaps you should play it or just quit bitching. (Everyone bitches.) That probably sounds a little harsh but you can just disregard it. Whew, I feel better now but I'm also dreading any responses I might get.

Anyone who wants to seek help for any sort of undesirable behavior has my personal hoorahs.

good luck to sean.

Low self esteem has a lot do with it. As shitty as feeling lonely and miserable is, it's easier than putting yourself out there into some uncomfortable social situation. Going out, calling someone up, meeting people all require effort and carry the risk of rejection. The more you exercise those social muscles, the easier it gets. And more important, the effort you put in will come back to you. You just have to initiate, and keep initiating, until something clicks.

[I] do know that its only temporary I will die and the next chapter will begin.

But how do you know that? It might not begin. Or what if an afterlife exists, but it demands socializing with others to an even GREATER extent than is demanded in this world?

Surely it's better to face the challenges and enjoy as fully as possible the pleasures of THIS life (which may be all we get, after all), in the here and now...

Oh so now I'm a bitch(with bad punctuation) well you will never read another word from me I'm taking greenspun off of my list I see I don't belong here I'm sorry if I upset anybody I just wanted to reach out to other recluses I wish everybody (who poured their heart out on this thread) better days ahead.

With all due respect, Jean, no one called you a bitch. Being accused of "bitching" is not the same thing, and I think you know that. Though, if this is an indication of how sensitive you are, then leaving ILE might save you more pain.

I'm all for welcoming self-penned recluses in open arms (in this manner of protocol anyway), but if you're difficult to even welcome, what's the point?

I just wanted to reach out to other recluses

do you like being a recluse?

I think one thing with this thread is people don't like the idea that others might be self-sufficient and not need human contact for their own well-being, hence catty responses. Thinking of all the people who for whatever reason are denied human contact makes me wonder about people who deliberately choose to be alone. But hey, one thing about being human is being able to make choices about how to live your life, and what's good for most of us will not be good for all.

Caveat delivered in good faith - deciding to withdraw from the world is fine, provided you remember that re-entry becomes progressively more difficult, and when you come out of your shell the world will have moved on. That's the tough part.

FE FI FOE FUM I Smell A Wanker.....today is the day i fuck off from here so anymore messages to me will hit a brick wall.....THERES NO PLACE LIKE HOME (click click click)

I think one thing with this thread is people don't like the idea that others might be self-sufficient and not need human contact for their own well-being, hence catty responses.

Well, I can definitely relate to some of what Jean is saying, maybe from the opposite side of the fence. For me (I hope I don't come off as arrogant with any of what I'm saying), I consider myself to have a VERY active social life, to the point that it's actually overwhelming to me. Like when I move in two weeks, I am going to have to let about 30 or so 'real life' friends (with whom I keep regular contact individually) know where I'm moving to. But despite all this, I am an extremely shy, introverted person, the farthest thing from a social butterfly: "social, not exactly by choice" ;). I hate going to loud parties where I don't know a majority of the people; it really is like going to the dentist for me, and requires the same amount of energy and psychological preparation. And often I find a lot of the people you meet at these are so wrapped up in themselves, their families, their accomplishments, you soon feel like you are being forced to watch somebody's home movies just talking to them. The key to this is I am careful to calculate the I/ME:YOU/HE/SHE/IT ratio when I talk to someone for the first time. If they are too egocentric for my tastes, I'm outta there. I also don't really like talking on the phone for a prolonged period of time with anyone, had to get dragged kicking and screaming into purchasing a cellular phone :), and when I get home (which is my sacred sanctuary from the battering ocean of socialness of my 9-to-5 life), I cringe whenever I see the answering machine blinking. From that part, I can relate to some of what Jean is saying, as I think many of us would.

But where I would largely not agree with Jean's (Jean, I am not meaning to sound aggressive or adversarial to you) view, would be that ultimately, despite the overwhelmingness, I am truly grateful and feel really lucky and blessed to have/know the friends and family I have/know, and would rather I had them than not have them, because they are all special people to me.

Also, what I would say to Jean is, sure, you see the people who kiss the worlds ass and are unhappy because they are so concerned that people like them. But do you also see the corresponding people who genuinely love their interactions in the world and are quite happy and secure in their dealings with others? Because whether you like it or not, the fact is they exist, and I would guess in equal numbers to those who kiss-ass. Also, sure, there are people who don't know anything beyond baseball, gardening, hair cuts, whatever. On the other hand, there are other people out there who might have more than this in their conversational repertoire (maybe you might find it's the very same person, once you talk to them more and more, beyond the invariable shallowness of opening small talk); and often, these people might not look or act anything like you on the surface. I'm willing to bet good money that I don't look anything like you at all (I would look to you like a 'preppie', I venture :) ), yet I still know something about goth bands and am open to learning more. Or perhaps the person really does have totally different likes than you (baseball, gardening, etc.)--but maybe you'll find their passions are more interesting or have more to them than you initially gave them credit for. I guess my point is not EVERYONE is boring, shallow, intolerant, etc. and the only way that you would find out who is and who isn't is by talking to them. You say you want someone who is just like you, to stay at home in your 'own little world'---how would you find them? If they are in accordance with your ideals, than right now wouldn't they be at home in their 'own little world', not desiring contact with anyone else? Again, I hope I don't sound aggressive or mean, Jean. It's just I think there's another side of the coin that you should consider...

OH LOOK MOMMY that girl won't play with us Come away from her child we don't like people like that.... GO SUCK YOUR MAMMAs TIT... leave us recluse alone you stupid cunts now here comes the blah blah blah

Perhaps some of us were mistaken in reading the initial question as something of a cry for help when it's now clear it was something more akin to a boast. Fair enough; she's made her decision.

Joe made some excellent points about making assumptions about people based on their appearance. It's a typical human trait to do this, but I know I've done it, without deliberately trying to be exclusive or mean, to the extent that I end up giving far too people a chance. I'm not just talking about clothes or haircuts here; I have more thoughts about this which I may post on a later thread.

Finally, thank you to everyone who wished me well, I really appreciate it. Hopefully yesterday's lengthy post wasn't too disturbing. I'm feeling fine today, albeit slammed with projects here at work, and am working on an appropriate course of action to prevent further disaster in my life.

Love you!

You can be self-sufficient and have a social life. One does not exclude the other.

it's now clear it was something more akin to a boast

No-one's immune to the need for attention seeking.

Jean, is this thread so that you can tell us all how happy you are living your reclusive lives, or are you looking for other recluses? If you want to get in touch with other recluses - why? doesn't that negate the point of the whole recluse thing? Or is it that you are seeking people who, like you, are different from the rest of society - your reclusiveness being driven by a sense of difference to the rest of us rather than a liking for the solitary life per se?

My mention of goth clubs wasn't facetious, they are full of people who see themselves as somehow removed from the rest of society.

"People are shit, I hate people, people hate me, I can live without people, people are shit, PLEASE TELL ME HOW GOOD AND BRAVE I AM FOR MANAGING TO BE ALONE."

It's a crock.

Nick is saying what I was thinking all along

its a crock alright. i hope so, i just can't handle the arrogance.

GoThIcBlUe ArE YoU ElViS

Post of the week.

OuCh ThOsE BrIcKs HuRt!

Where's your head at? Where's your head at? Wheres your head at? Don't let the walls cave in on you We can live on live on without you You get what you give that much is true Don't let the walls cave in on you You turn the world away from you Where's your head at? You have now found yourself trapped in the incomprehensible maze Where's your head at?