With all this talk about prog and epics maybe it's time there was a GENTLE GIANT ALBUMS POLL

Probably Octopus or In a Glass House

I need to hear more GG, maybe I'll take the results of this poll as a buyer's guide. Guess that could be a bad idea.

Oops! I didn't see Free Hand; that's another strong contender.

Gentle Giant is to me the Lord-God-King of Progressive Rock bands; guys with beards who look like trolls singing poncily and playing as elaborately as can be played. I always picture them prancing around the village countryside on imaginary horseback crying "Tallybont! Tallybont!" while banging coconut shells together. (And I say this with love). :-)

I've only ever heard the two I own: 3 Friends and Live. Tho I loved lots of similar stuff back in the day, neither thrilled me to any great extent and I'm unlikely to go back for a reappraisal now.

So, um, Playing The Fool, because it showed they could play that crazy contapuntal stuff outside of the studio.

Contrapuntal.

I mean c'mon:

http://mitkadem3.homestead.com/files/gg_live.jpg

Nullis Feminae (No Female Potential)

>> need to hear more GG, maybe I'll take the results of this poll as a >>buyer's guide. Guess that could be a bad idea.

Yep.

They've been commented on for ILM but it's diffuse. I'd say go for the Jap remaster of Octopus or an original vinyl version from the UK with the Dean cover. The US edition isn't worth having. GG always went from really twee to baroque and crashing within the space of an album. The trick is to find the records which minimize the twee. Playing the Fool, because it's live is a safe bet. A later live album, recorded just before they broke up from a show on the Sunset Strip, is not. Three Friends is twee to the max and I hardly ever listen to it.

In a Glass House has its moments and it was issued for the first time in the US a couple years ago in good form. First album was produced by Tony Visconte and has one of their cult fan classics -- Alucard -- Dracula spelled backwards. As a kid, a late Friday night rock show aired them doing "Knots" from Octopus which was definitely totall different than anything you could see and hear at the time in prog rock. This was when ELP was at the very top of the charts in the US.

Their music doesn't seem as epic as other prog contenders. I voted for The Power and the Glory because of Proclamation and Valedictory. But Octopus might have deserved the vote. The first two songs on Octopus are awesome. I need to give Free Hand and In a Glass House another listen. Their best albums are right next to eachother in chronological time. cool.

I'm trying to talk my kid's chorus teacher to whip up an arrangement of "On Reflection" from Free Hand for the high school chorus to do. "Knots" would be pretty rocking too.

It probably stands to reason that this thread hasn't done very well.

Wait till I do the Gryphon poll.

IT'S THE GOBLIN EPICS POLL

...

...

The results of this poll are in.

I've held off doing a VdGG poll for much the same reason. Plus it wd basically be a poll of 90 percent of their songs.

Just do it Jim, I been waiting on it!

Mind you, has there been a VDGG best album poll? If not that has to be done 1st.

I was going to procrastinate about this but what the hell.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

There's your buyer's guide, Matt 2.

I should listen to Octopus from start to finish one day.

I was going to vote for Octopus, but only the basis that it's the only one I've ever heard. I do like, though.

I always see Gentle Giant namechecked alongside the likes of Genesis, Yes and Camel, although personally I think they have more in common with Sparks, Roxy Music, Cockney Rebel etc.

Never heard this band until today, listening to a double LP comp called Pretentious For The Sake Of It, and it's pretty good so far! It's all very all over the place but nothing has bored me with noodliness, a new part/phrase/whatever will start going before that can happen.

Nothing At All
Why Not?
Edge Of Twilight
Schooldays
Pantagruel's Nativity
The Advent Of Panurge
Raconteur Troubadour
Knots
The Runaway
An Inmates Lullaby
Proclamation
So Sincere
Cogs in Cogs
Valedictory

Damn fine collection imo. The songs represent their respective albums pretty well.

I've only heard the first GG album and it's good but I'm not very impressed. I got the impression that they were trying to "prog up" their music just for the sake of it, like, "well, Crimson did this, so we should to", adding all sorts of musical passages that really make no sense in terms of the song, as though they just sat down and said, "okay, let's write some prog rock".

That said I liked "Why Not?" a lot. I've also heard "Raconteur Troubadour" and thought that was really cool.

I'm not the worlds hugeist prog fan but I love GG...probably the best bunch of musicians (not musos) this country ever produced, each one was pretty much a virtuoso and I think what set them apart was their funky/Zappa-esque stylings...also pretty soulful in a constipated English stylee...not sure if they stayed together they would of had the type of success Genesis had although I do think they had it in them to write a proggy type 3 minute pop nugget a al 'Turn It On Again'...check out 'I Lost My Head'...it procks...

I always see Gentle Giant namechecked alongside the likes of Genesis, Yes and Camel, although personally I think they have more in common with Sparks, Roxy Music, Cockney Rebel etc.

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Thursday, October 7, 2010 6:09 PM (8 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^ Yeah, this, uh.... no.

they just sat down and said, "okay, let's write some prog rock" . . . more like, they were the krallice of their time, musical virtuosos who jammed their choppy hearts out. some of this stuff is really good, "the advent of panurge," for instance, and "knots."

and "funny ways"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzDCfnBhinw&feature=related

you can't do that shit with protools and autotune

I remember posting about GG a week (or two) ago on a few threads here. I like how peoples' music taste falls within the same seasons. It was just a month ago when my interest in early Roxy Music revived. I guess this does fit in well with that band judging by the time of revival.

What got my interested peaked in GG again was one night when 'Knots' inexplicably got stuck in my head. And now I've found out that the studio and live version of that song are very much two different beasts.

Judging GG's prog credentials by the first album is not fair given just how Crimson King it was, cover art and everything. They hadn't even got started back then. Octopus, Glass House, Power & the Glory and Interview are unlike anything else (and in some respects unlike one another).

yeah I'll have to give those a shot - i've been interested in picking up Octopus for a while, but never got around to it

Loving this today :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJYe9EFFeec

That song is incredible. Thank christ GG didn't feel the need to stretch it out to 17 minutes just for the sake of posturing.

despite being a huge 70's english prog fan I still don't know these albums very well at all. need to listen some more.

i think you guys are right. it wasn't fair to judge them by their first album. i really like this band called Echolyn now and apparently they sound a lot like Gentle Giant. I'll report back.

yep. GG are indeed a great band. I stand behind my comments on the first album, it's kind of awkwardly proggish and doesn't rock out as much as it should but compared to other awkward early prog like Time and a Word or Trespass it actually holds up quite well. Acquiring the Taste is a real gem, took me a while to really get it but it definitely grew on me. Side 2 of Three Friends is ace. And Octopus may be one of the coolest 70's prog albums I own, they just went completely into their odd hyper-complex-but-not-really-flashy aesthetic. I totally get why they never made it big but I find myself wanting to hear them more than any prog band outside of Van der Graaf Generator (and Echolyn, who totally rule)

I think "Raconteur Troubadour" might be the best song I've heard this year. I always find it annoying but ultimately funny that I often love things for the reason some people hate them; in this case on another GG thread, someone complained about his voice, but I think the way he raises and lowers his voice in that song is just genius and immensely satisfying. In fact I think that is the closest to Field Music I've found any older band (Field Music are always compared to 70s bands).

It taken me a very long time to get around to GG, only got Octopus so far.

ha, never thought of the Field Music comparison. it makes sense though. they're both very economical and keep the songs and albums short, both have more going on under the surface than meets the eye. currently "Three Friends" is blowing my head off, all those incredible interlocking bits, especially on "Peel the Paint" and "Mister Class & Quality?". very mathematical, and I mean that in a good way. And yes "Raconteur" is excellent. Nothing in my library is anything like it (other than maybe "Isn't it Quiet and Cold?" off the first LP). Maybe the song that convinced me to keep up with the guys in the first place.

Anyone got any advice about the box sets? I Lost My Head is a collection of their final albums but Memories Of Old Days, Under Construction and Scraping The Barrel all seem to be collections of unreleased tracks, live versions, demos, rehearsals and variants.
Are the latter 3 collections just for crazy fans and is there overlapping contents between them.

I still think "Raconteur Troubadour" is total genius.

Been listening to In A Glass House. "Experience" is wonderful when that loud part kicks in. Love that guy shouting "GO!" at the start of "Way Of Life"

Some people are saying Memories Of Old Days is mostly made of the previous live albums and rarities compilations. If this is a "best of" selection of those previous collections, I might want it, because Scraping The Barrel looks a bit too collectory extreme for me.

I hate to ask, because the answer may cost me money, but what was wrong with the CD releases of Free Hand and Octopus?

I don't know anything about that.

Further research on Scraping The Barrel tells me that the third disc is dedicated to old bands and obscure solo stuff and new tracks recorded for the collection called "Moog Fugue", "Home Again" and "Move Over".

Did they have b-sides and if so, are they collected? I'm not familiar enough with the track names.

All Chryshalis era b-sides collected with the studio albums on I Lost My Head. The only exclusive track from earlier singles is "Power And The Glory" which is only on some editions of the album of the same name.
This sounds crazy but Wikipedia said (the link for the source wasn't there) there was possibly going to be an animated film based on Power And The Glory!

Wow! Steve Wilson Power And The Glory mix coming out next month with animated videos disc!

Glad I waited to buy this.

I've never owned a 5.1 cd, do they sound fine on a regular CD player with headphones? I read that there is possible damage for incompatible speakers. Please help.

Still dipping my toes into their catalog. Some thoughts about what I've investigated lately:

The Power and The Glory - via Steven Wilson's remaster. I really like this one, right now its neck and neck with Octopus for my favorite GG record.
Free Hand - via Spotify. I liked this one a lot more than I thought I would, it's a nice and easy transition into the art-pop they'd become.
Giant for A Day - via used CD. This is, um, pretty bad. I can see why wiki notes it as the lowest point in the band's career. "It's Only Goodbye" perks things up at the end and shows a brief glimpse of the instrumental prowess they once had, but I found most of it to be really tepid pop. Is there any point in checking out Civilian after this?

"Northern Lights" by Renaissance is a really pretty pop song. The Camera Camera album, their ostensible new wave attempt, is dire.

I mean - they had great vocals, great sense of melody, and they've always been very keyboard-based. you'd they would've been able to cobble together a halfway decent New Wave album. and yeah I realize it doesn't always work that way.

I actually agree with all of that! in 1981 I was so into new wave, and I *wanted* Renaissance to make a modern sounding, Eurythmics-style record - I could even hear it in my head. But it wasn't to be.

There are a bunch of prog bands that lost the thread '75-'77

The irony is that this is when Rush was at its prog apex.

Acquiring The Taste... the front cover art looks like someone's ass is going to be licked until you unfold it, was this intentional?

Good album but I don't know where I'd rank it. I think "Black Cat would have been better as an instrumental because all the non-singing parts are fantastic.

Did Tony Visconti produce any other prog bands?

he worked on "shine on brightly" - assisted denny cordell, though, didn't take the lead on that

he produced bowie's the man who sold the world, an album prog as there is

I say the choirboy member is a great singer.

Here's a track I made about 10 years ago based off of samples from Advent of Panurge

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqj9sl59shuhf4x/Pan%20Urge.m4a?dl=0

Kerry Minnear...the coolest uncoolest MF ever...there was a video circulating a few years ago of him singing a song he’d written for his church...it was the sweetest thing...

I didn't know he was an actual church singer.

I don’t think he is...might be a warden or something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GjCuVGcnTQ

"I remember the good things, how can you forget?"

Free Hand is really good, fun bunch of songs. The Peel session of "On Reflection" is well worth hearing because it was substantially rewritten.

Despite some great songs on The Power And The Glory and an enjoyable overall construction, there's something a bit underwhelming about it for me.

would really love if there was an entire album full of music like the instrumental section of "Edge of Twilight"

Acquiring the Taste is the MOST Gentle Giant album. I would have voted for Free Hand.

the live acapella section they do on "Free Hand" (the song) is probably the single greatest moment in their catalogue

I would have voted for In A Glass House, which I think is their best record, though I can't call it "definitive" because it lacks an acapella showcase like that one you mentioned or "Knots" or "Design"

Any of the 1971-1975 records is a defensible choice, maybe Interview as well.

I do find this thread title funny, though, because there's not one GG song I would call an epic (unless you count live medleys).

maybe if you define "epic" by length. I know a lot of people consider "Buckingham Green" by Ween to be an epic even though it's only like 4 minutes long. GG have a lot of tunes like that - "Advent of Panruge" for example.

i've been spending a lot of time with this band lately. in one of the more wtf episodes of my concertgoing life, i once saw gentle giant and kiss on the same night in the same venue but under separate admissions.

http://ggconcerts.on-reflection.org/part5_files/image136.jpg

there are some awesome concert videos on YouTube, they're definitely a band you have to witness in action before you truly understand how damn awesome they really were

yup. and y'know, they were all grounded in r&b from before they went "prog." so when they put a funk beat behind all that progginess, that mother *moves*.

Yup, like "Runaway" is basically a procession of riffs and grooves that are super funky and natural-feeling despite the frequent time signature shifts

Interview is very underrated, every bit as good as Free Hand imo

Giant For A Day is the only real dog in their back catalogue, Civilian was a decent enough attempt by a noodly prog band to respond to new wave but it was too little too late by that point.

Yeah Giant For A Day is mostly lame, but it does have "Friends" which is pretty uncharacteristic for them but is such an adorable, uplifting song. Actually "wholesome" is the word I'm looking for. I feel like John Weathers could have made a nice folky children's album

Interview is very underrated, every bit as good as Free Hand imo

Outside of "Timing" I have never really been able to wrap my head around that one. I remember it being real prickly and short on actual hooks but maybe I should give it another go

agree that Civilian is pretty decent - some of it (like "Inside Out") is really quite good and I think you could argue that they might've actually been able to pull off a turn into Cars or Utopia-like territory. but alas it's just one of those albums with no conceivable audience. you could argue they should've just changed the band name entirely.

"I Lost My Head" was the key to Interview for me. One of their greatest not-epic epics I think, where they really show off their full range (pretty, baroque-ish Minnear-sung A section -> bombastic, hard-rocking D. Shulman-belted B section with funky extended outro)

John Weathers (as a drummer, not singing "Friends") was really the one who kept their rock records together. The early records are great, but they don't harness propulsion and power until Octopus.

yeah one funny thing about ATT is that they almost seem afraid to rock n' roll, as though they'd pigeonholed themselves as this medieval novelty group not unlike Gryphon. 3 Friends grooves a lot more and by Glass House they were doing full-on power riffs

Weathers is the real stand out in those live videos - not only is his ability to play these overly complex parts way more impressive when you can actually see it, he makes these crazy faces the entire time, like he is so ~~in the zone~~ that he almost seems unaware of anything else around him, just totally in outer space.

This is the best live recording I've heard on Youtube. Incredible energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRT5zYkoUqk

is it just me or might one of those violin counterpoint melodies in "Plain Truth" have been the inspiration for the main Super Mario Bros. melody? I'm talking about the bit that comes in at 1:07. always makes me think of Mario

likely just a coincidence...but Dr. Mario does rip off a chunk of Karn Evil 9 Second Impression. or maybe they both lifted it from the same place? check out 1:29 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlhp-Qbuk1k

It could have been some subconscious influence seeping through. I would not be surprised if Nintendo composers were/are major prog heads.

That melody is from "St. Thomas" by Sonny Rollins, which itself is based on traditional songs.

yeah...I assumed that was borrowed from somewhere, but I would imagine that the VGM composer (who was born in '57) lifted it from ELP, because ELP is, for some reason, super popular in Japan. Emerson was doing shows there regularly up until his suicide. the chirpiness of the melody in Dr. Mario certainly recalls him

ok I found a cheap copy of Interview so I'm giving it a proper listen. I dunno if it's "as good as Free Hand" but it's definitely the Draft 7.30 to FH's Confield

It's fine, but you can see that maybe they'd gone as far in their prog style as they could. It makes the change they made on The Missing Piece a little more comprehensible.

Interview and The Missing Piece are both on the same disc on the Chrysalis box set and I think the latter is the best of the two. "I'm Turning Around" and "As Old as You're Young" are both particularly great. Just love how "As Old as You're Young" builds in complexity, kind of just want it to keep growing.

imo Interview is "better" in that it pushes their style about as far as it could go, tunes be damned. by The Missing Piece it almost seemed like they were apologizing for going prog. but it's definitely a more listenable album, kind of underrated among the fanbase really. Giant for a Day is the one that really goes south.

But The Missing Piece is still plenty prog, again the complexity of "As Old as You're Young"

How many members stayed playing music because I suspect a band like this couldn't have a reunion because their skills can't just be picked up again to the same level if they stopped playing so long. Is there any examples of virtuosos quit playing then able to pick it up again after long years of absence? I would think that once you get to a certain level it becomes such a part of your identity that it's difficult to put down

the only relevant story I can think of is Phil Collins trying to fill in for the encore on a Musical Box performance and not really being able to do it. he wrote something about being in disbelief at how technical his pars were.

afaik none of the Gentle Giant guys did much after the band broke up. I think John Weathers got some session work but there's not much there. Derek and Phil Schulman don't appear to have a single credit that isn't GG or Simon Dupree. that's pretty remarkable given how great a band they were.

The Shulman brothers went into the business side of music business, of course.

I always wondered if they pitched themselves by saying "well we know a lot about what ~doesn't~ sell"

Lol. Also I think there was a partial reunion called Three Friends with new/session members who did live shows a few years ago.