Why Vinyl Can't Survive

At the moment I buy alot of vinyl, some mp3s, and I download others, the cheaper way! When I play it's a combination of these 3, this is the case for lots of people I know.

Some use all mp3s yes, but not all, it's generally not a big deal, it makes NO DIFFERENCE.

There are quite a few fallacys in the article tho.

1. That buying MP3s is cheaper: it's quite expensive considering you get no physical product.

2. That the MP3 stores have the same stock as vinyl ones: plenty of times I can't find the track I want on beatport.

3. That John in Nova Scotia being able to buy a tune on MP3 actually has anything to do with the death of vinyl, dance music starts with Hans in Berlin and Fred in London, and filters down to these other places, John in Nova Scotia never could buy vinyl so how does this affect the sales?

4. Isn't the biggest threat to vinyl diminishing supplies of the materials used to create it?

I mean I can definitely see that vinyl is so much heavier and stuff, but as long as it keeps getting produced it will keep selling. Why do I feel the writer of the article is a US house purist or something and his friends think "CDs have no soul", so relatively he feels he is a modern day Eno.

hahahahahahahahahahaha .... yes, music was on the verge of being phased out of popular culture before the iPod came along.

And next week they're writing about why vinyl *will* survive ...

Every album released since has been creatively constrained to that same 75 minutes.

and thank god.

But speaking as someone who just lost 10,000 songs due to a hard disc failure, from now on if I really like a track, I'm going to spring for the vinyl. In the long run, vinyl will trump digital. If you want to make sure you still own that song when you're 90, best get it on record and store in a nice cool place.

And in the very long run, the musicians are out of luck. People in the year 4000 will be analyzing 20th century culture from pots and sculptures not info on circuit boards.

and if you want to listen to the track on the move it's still hassle to record and encode it from vinyl (i'm about to do a LOT of this over the next few weeks).

Get an iMic. They are cheap and good.

They look like this:

http://www.macfriends.com/productImages/adapters/13892.jpg

02 - Tiesto - "I've moved totally to CDs this year - vinyl is dead"
05 - Ferry Corsten - ...."I've pretty much switched to CDs"
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what you can do with mp3s and cds on the newst pioneers and suchlike makes the traditional vinyl deck look like a museum piece.

they're just moving to CDs because they're the next "dead format."

If we assume that our current global culture will be dead and buried with nothing left, not even a folk memory, what will people make of the material culture we have left behind and will they be able to extract the immaterial data on it?

A player piano roll, a cylinder, a vinyl record, a piece of magnetic tape or a CD, combined with evidence of what was originally used to play them, wouldn't present too much of a challenge, but say you found a mp3 CD. It's quite a leap to go from the laser-read pits to the data to the digital-analogue converter and so on and actually work out what on earth it was meant to be.

It reminds me of a Bruce Sterling novel, where all the criminals keep their data on long obsolete technology instead of encrypting it.

(Off the point, I know, but interesting, I reckon. Fwiw, I doubt there will be anything commercially available that will play an mp3 in 10 years time and that a lot of people will be re-buying an awful lot of music in some sort of loss-less format)

Anyway, the point of vinyl for us non-DJs is that we like the big pictures!

Isn't the biggest threat to vinyl diminishing supplies of the materials used to create it?

A few months ago a friend of mine told me that the company that actually makes one of the key chemicals or materials used in vinyl was planning to close all its factories because they'd ceased to be profitable. And no one else was making this stuff, ergo no more vinyl.

At the time, I dismissed this as bollocks and I'm still sure it is. Am I wrong?

ILM will be the new Rosetta Stone.

there is a fine answer to this. not now.

who gives a fuck if music lasts 2,000 years or not!!!??? not people 2,000 years hence, that's for sure.

It's a big debate as to whether to 'go digital'. Apart from retrievability, COST is obviously the issue. How long would it take them to turn everything they've got into a .wav or whatever?

(Anyway, I am derailing the thread. Lets talk about Ferry Corsten some more.)

Hahaha - the ultimate rockist criteria

the BL barely lets you look at stuff more than 200 years old without a gloves and a mask, let alone 2,000 year old music.

as a user, i can think of about a million other things they could concentrate on over this.

but i guess to keep all the wonderful undergrads they've started letting in interested, mp3s will be their main shit from now on.

Not at all. Remember that vinyl's not just for records. It's also for siding, car seats, clothes... All sorts of stuff.
It has become more expensive to dispose of polyvinyl chloride since people are finally wise to the fact that it causes wicked cancers.

From the perspective of a DJ working in a smaller dance market, MP3's are cheaper on a month-to-month basis once you get over the initial investment in computer gear and Serato or whatever. At $1-$2 per MP3 versus $7-$14 for a 12", I get a lot more music out of my budget every month if I download.

The online stores still don't have an adequately broad selection, but this is changing *quickly*. There are at least a dozen DJ-oriented MP3 stores operating now, and I'm starting to regularly experience the phenomenon where I'll search for something in MP3 format unsuccessfully, buy it on vinyl, and then see it pop up on Beatport or Kompakt-MP3 a week or two later.

Now if someone would just convince Perlon to get with the program.

I find this statement HIGHLY dubious!

Pappa, you are the smoothest dude of the 1985 timewarp.

But Ian, what happens when Robert Pollard finally runs out of spending money?

x-post to ian who is making brooklyn sink into the mud with the weight of his fleetwood mac demo bootlegs.

Person #1: "Yay, I just downloaded the entire Trapez catalogue. All that hard work was totally worth it!"

Person #2: "Yay, I just found that elusive Perlon 12” I've been looking for. Now I have every release. All that hard work was totally worth it!"

I dunno about anybody else, but the *feeling* I get from looking at a crate of records in the corner of my bedroom knowing full well the time and money spent searching for some of them is quite a bit more satisfying than looking at my hard drive full of mp3s, awesome though they may be.

Personally I'd think, "Hey nice, now I can spend my time and money on stuff like, say, food. And travel. Etc." would trump said feeling several times over. At least that's how *I* feel!

get your tape deck fixed up and ready to go just in case

a friend of mine theorizes there's going to be a Great Tape Deck Shortage coming up and i'm inclined to agree with him. it's almost never cost effective to repair them when they eventually give out.

I can see that. Not too long ago, someone I know looked for a good, working VCR to borrow, and it became clear that nobody we knew had one. You can always find someone on ebay selling, but there's always the issue of price, condition (i.e. how long it'll last), etc.

xp Certainly no one's producing good mechanisms

I just realized I haven’t had a CD drive on anything in my house for about 6 years

generally best that CDs not get behind the wheel in general, least of all in your home

otm

I was starting to even get worried about CD players disappearing by the time I need a new one.. but optical disc players will survive because of cinephiles eh?

most high-end audio companies still sell CD players, but yeah... if you've got a good DAC any old DVD or Blu-Ray player will serve for playing CDs

i had to replace my dvd player recently and it came without line level out, or a display. was also half the size of the previous one. and they all looked like this, unless you wanted to spend twice as much.

my friend gifted me a 1970's BSR-style dansette for xmas... it's a sub-par turntable (though way better than any crosley junk) but the amp and speaker in it have these projecting forward mids and it just makes you wanna dance. i feel like fonzie punching the jukebox or something. it's been loads of fun to play 45s, 78s and older LPs, but it won't track a modern pressing for shit. i was excited to buy a cardigans LP but after months of tracking adjustments and a new stylus it just skips every song. i guess a lot of new pressings are very loud and weird... maybe something to do with horizontal grooves, too.

it's nice to not be so precious about vinyl and fret over perfect sound forever. i'm having fun just heading to the thrift store and picking up a couple of 45s every weekend. i guess i plan to augmenting my digital collection with records... there's no way i could replace everything in my library and navigating the crapshoot of modern pressings quality control is nothing short of a headache.

if you really really don't care to be precious, put a nickle on the head while you try that cardigans

weirdly i have found that relief of tracking force rather than applying more helped it to skip less... though i read lighter force is way worse for LPs than heavy. weird.

it's nice to not be so precious about vinyl and fret over perfect sound forever. i'm having fun just heading to the thrift store and picking up a couple of 45s every weekend.

I think you have the right idea. I have a pretty nice Rega and every time I pick up a cheap LP I have a crisis about whether I should play it or not and risk messing up the needle (which is an ordeal and a half to replace, by the way, unless you have the eyes and unshaking hands of a jeweler). I usually just say fuck it and play the record, but your current setup sounds less stressful

? I have a Rega for years and I just play whatever never even worried about it and have had no problems

you need to appreciate the zen of cartridge replacement (or get one where the stylus snaps in and out).

I have an Audio Technica VM540-ML, they have easily replaceable cartridges (amazing cart btw)

I'm assuming Paul has a moving coil (vs moving magnet) cartridge? Those are much harder to deal with....I still mourn by old Denon MC cart (now discontinued) that was broken by a certain small child who is near and dear to my heart

this is why I have two turntables, the nice MMF-5 for ripping vinyl and the Technics 1700 for playing whatever I want

Do records hurt a stylus? I've honestly never even thought about it

well styli are supposed to be good for about 1000 hours of play assuming you keep the records & stylus clean. i suppose if it hits something that knocks it out of alignment that would be bad. not sure if that can happen.

every time you play a record everything involved dies a little, the record, the stylus, you, etc.

mmmm entropy

conversely, every time you play a CD, your lifespan increases by .003549 seconds and the sun emits more heavy elements that can be used to manufacture 40th anniversary CD box set editions of all your 80s favorites

lmao. honestly. records are way hardier than people make them out to be. perhaps old ones more than new, though. i wood glued a couple the other week, after the gold rush, parsley sage rosemary... they came up great, and they've been treat like shit and ran through a blunt stylus a bunch and still sound fine. years ago, i remember waiting a few months for an LP to ship from US to UK to me - something i was so excited to hear on wax - and immediately after, i got a tiny nick in it and it skipped forever through track three from then.

going to HMV here is a laugh. ABBA reissues for like £30-40. what? the proper ones are all in your nan's sideboard!

maelin you've given the courage to try the wood glue thing finally

got a copy of dark side of the moon (really nice orig harvest pressing) from my gf's dad but it's so dirty, might as well try it

the wood glue trick looks like it would be an extremely satisfying meditative exercise

I have a Rega turntable but I am probably going to get something else at some point. Not a fan of Rega's "internal ground" that literally no other manufacturer uses. To many random hums and buzzes for my taste. Anyone else have issues?

to = too

I have a Rega turntable but I am probably going to get something else at some point. Not a fan of Rega's "internal ground" that literally no other manufacturer uses. To many random hums and buzzes for my taste. Anyone else have issues?

― Rocky Thee Stallion (PBKR), Thursday, 11 February 2021 16:47 (thirty-eight minutes ago) link

It is the only thing I don't like about my Rega (and is it all of them? I feel like it was only the P1s or P2s?) and sometimes it really annoys me but I've generally learned to live with it. Though a lot times I would try to point it out to people when we used be able to occupy the same physical space to listen to records and most people didn't notice unless I said something and sometimes not even then.

I've had the table for 15 yrs now and I'm unlikely to change it anytime soon.

just make sure you use unibond titebond II i think it's called, i have heard bad things about others.

i had problems a few years ago, but not for a while, i think it might be when i got a new cartridge, i think it might be related to the wires in the headshell

overall it seems like a solution in search of a problem and at odd with their really stripped down and functional design

Exactly, sort of a galaxy brain move.

My preamp is in the shop and it was buzzing as well so I am curious what I think when I get it back. I am hoping it resolves most of the issues and improves the sound as well.

posted on a different thread but I went on a fun journey from "hmmm, something's a bit off with the sound" to "you should get a decent cartridge" to "maybe yours is just not aligned properly" to "you actually *can't* properly align a cartridge on your turntable because it's a straight underhanging arm that's meant for scratching and not really for listening", so yup got a new one coming in the mail, this hobby is so fun

i ordered a pretty expensive record and the vinyl was sealed in this stuff called 'Last', a sort of protective coating. never seen it before and can't find any info about it online, (it's a french record from the 70s). does this negatively affect the value of the record at all? the vinyl is pristine and sounds amazing, so i personally have no problem with it, but vinyl fetishists can be very weird

xp What did you get?

I've got tubes in my amp and preamp, so there are hums and buzzes coming and going from time to time. I've gotten pretty good about diagnosing the source.

Last may be a record cleaning solution as there was a company with that name that had a CD cleaning solution.

whaaaat

https://thelastfactory.com/vinyl-record-care-preservation/

thanks! it was a tricky google search. looks like this, was defunct for a time and now produced again

https://thelastfactory.com/product/heritage-last-record-preservative-purpose-record-cleaner-kit/

The 30-second treatment affects the vinyl to a depth of about ten molecular layers and becomes part of the groove wall. There are no surface residues for the stylus to pick up. In fact, overuse is harmless.

not sure how legit this is tho

“overuse is harmless” was the name of my rave night in 1997 iirc

PBKR - I got the AT-LP120X with Bluetooth. figured it might be nice to have that so I can use headphones since I sit about 15 feet away. I've heard a lot of good things about that turntable, pretty much everyone says it's a great entry/midlevel one for those who don't want to break the bank

those cleaning products drive me crazy, there are just so fucking many of them. I have the D4+ discwasher system which doesn't do much (just kinda pushes the dirt around), plus one of those brushses that's pretty decent at removing debris. for cleaning the stylus I just do the Magic Eraser thing, though I'm kind of confused, do you just tap the surface or does it actually have to penetrate the surface? (I've seen YT videos showing both)

I use the Magic Eraser on my stylus too; I just drop the needle on the eraser for maybe a second once or twice, and then lift it off. Can't remember where I read about that method, but it seems to work, and a few times I've seen dirt from the stylus left on the Eraser.

I have one of those zerodust gel things from Japan, it’s pretty sweet

this is the best brush I’ve used for picking up dust:

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at6012

although I read somewhere last year that AT started to cheap out on materials so the new ones aren’t as good lol :-/

I got the AT-LP120X with Bluetooth.

AT turntables are supposed to be pretty good and totally classic.

https://www.business-live.co.uk/manufacturing/first-vinyl-record-plant-factory-20329690

the last piece of news i expected to be reading today was a new vinyl plant opening in my shithole of a hometown. this is most curious. i was under the assumption that there are very few plants left operating internationally. at any rate, wonderful news

that’s awesome