Caetano Veloso S and D

If you like Caetano, you may want to check out his son--granted, it doesn't quite have the depth, but it's definitely intriguing. And if you like the Norte album, you may like Arto Lindsay. He's part of the no-wavers and did a lot of skronking in downtown NYC in the early Eighties with Ambitious Lovers and DNA, but the last three albums he's made (two for Bar-none, one for Righteous Babe) have been bossa electronic records which are quite amazing. Especially the two earlier ones, Noon Chill and Mondo Civilizado--a great blend of traditional with some Bahia influences and kinky electronica. He does some of the translation for Veloso's last record.

Another couple of people that may intrigue you are Vinicius Cantuaria, Veloso's ex-guitarist, who is quite a songwriter in his own right, and Tom Ze, another exponent of the Tropicalia movement which Veloso is a part of. As always, Os Mutantes is a great band to start with, as it contains the genesis of the weird hybrid Brasilian music that we hear now.

Thanks for the tip, Michaelangelo, about Estrangeiro. I tend to avoid the compilations, though.

And thanks to Mickey Black Eyes - can I call you Mickey? - for recommending Livro.

Mickey mentioned Mutantes. They're being heavily namedropped at the mo. If you like that, then you have to try Secos e Molhados, a gently psychedelic band from a similar period (not sure exactly). Their singer, Ney Matogrosso, has a spectacular voice.

Arto Lindsay is indeed marvellous. I particularly like Prize, but that's more a question of circumstance than any great critical commentary.

Vinicius Cantuaria - thanks I'll have a look for his solo work.

Back to the Caetano question, did he do anything work seeking out in the sparkly spangly eighties? (those sleeves... I've never been brave enough)

Hey, this message board's good isn't it?

And I'm assuming that you're already familiar with Gilberto Gil and Milton Nascimento, not to mention Astrud and Joao Gilberto. Have you heard Bebel Gilberto's album? It's quite interesting as well-- production by Suba, Amon Tobin, Fila Brasilia, and Thievery Corporation. I'm kind of out of the loop as far as trends go, but I know there's a huge underground swell of Brasilian-influenced electronica--Nicola Conte, Tobin, Thievery, Fantastic Plastic Machine, Da Lata, et al... while it's certainly not traditional songcraft, some of their work is very cool. Reflecting some of that futurist instinct of much Brasilian work.

Cheers

Take a look at Brasilia! It's this very chic, ultra-contextless and yet historically relevant thing. Very hard to explain, but it's kind of the same way electronica is designed to be ironic and yet free of constraints--always future.

I suppose that could be a formalist construct, but I'm not sure how relevant it is to helping you decide what music to get. Not to turn this thread into a discussion of J-pop... but people like Shiina Ringo and Chara, all the way downtown to Kahimi Karie or Takako Minekawa, Cornelius, et al of the "Shibuya" sound. And all of their friends, and their friends' friends. Very much this arch, hip thing that is very Brasil too. Especially the Brasil that Westerners have stereotyped--take the album covers by Thievery Corporation and its downtempo brethren etc, it's all very cool and yet ironic, so that it's removed from ridicule.

Phew, now that I've managed to make this even more confusing, I'm going to stop. :)

In a way, our (this generation's) legacy might be much more attuned to collage works--the conflagration of different styles, melting attitudes. Hopefully our cultural references won't be ridiculed in a couple of decades, but who knows? Maybe we'll be hip again because we're so cheesy for trying to be so hip (about cheesy stuff.) I have faith, though, that some sincerity and longevity will come out of this, and not as a result of quoting and Rauschenbergin'.

p.s. I'm burning a couple of cds of Brasil/influenced songs for a DJ friend of mine--and it occurred to me to add some names of electronic and other artists that might be fun for you to check out.

old school: Marcos Valle, Baden Powell, Bola Sete, Vinicius DeMoraes, Gato Barbieri, Airto Moreira new school: Nicola Conte, Truby Trio, Suba, Smoke City, Da Lata, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Marisa Monte, Carlinhos Brown, Soulstance

And Daniel, you really shouldn't avoid A Arte de just because it's a compilation--it's one of the most perfect records ever made.

A lot more to say, but it's time I went to work and did some mundane crap.

Speaking of lovely, I am swooning over the new Finley Quaye. It's definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but every once in a blue moon, when it's on, it's ON! Damn!

Michaelangelo - maybe I shouldn't be snobbish about compilations such as a arte de, but I got exasperated in Brazil with record shops thinking that back catalogue meant putting loads of compilations on the shelves.

Interesting that you put Sakamoto on your Brazilian compilation?!!?

Mickey - thanks for all your recommendations and comments. Brasilia - bloody mad place and frankly not very likeable, but i know where you're coming from. I follow what you say about futurism/optimism, but so much Brazilian music is drenched in melancholia. They don't seem to care about people seeing their dirty washing!

I had 'Tropicalia 2' but I sold it fairly quickly - it sounded a bit clean to me.

Does he do his own whistling? Because the whistling is fantastic on 'o Leonzinho' or whatever it's called.

http://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/veloso_caet_todocaeta_101b.jpg

Um, I know it's been a few years, but Daniel are you done with the mundane crap yet? I find your's and Mickey Black Eyes' comments about the Brasil and Japan parellels really interesting, and I think France could also be added to these comparisons.

(I think i may have just made some connections about one of the reasons I like foreign or really cheesy styles so much)

I second Sister Disco's sideline.

Anyway, yeah I just recently purchased Bicho and Joia, and I quite frankly cannot believe how great they are!!!!!

Joia in particular is a fascinating record; a cycle of miniatures which are all really affecting and impeccably arranged. I've always been a fan of Caetano but it may very well be my discovery of this record which catapulted him into genius status. He has an amazing ear for pure sound - knows the way fundamentally simple instrumentation can create perfectly rich sound worlds. He knows what he's doing.

Bicho is totally cool! It's Caetano going funk and it's extremely great! I saw him live last year and He performed "Gente" from Bicho! It was great; he fuckin' rules!

"Gente" is a GREAT song

Caetano Veloso - Livro, Domingo, Cores Nomes, Joia, Eu Nao Peco Desculpa
( I've already got a few self-titled ones and cinema trans)

I stand by my call
that livro is the ninth best
album ever made

I've also acquired Livro and Joia. The revival of this thread has been great as I have omitted to seek out Cores e Nomes, but shall rectify that asap. I agree with your call, A Nairn, about French music being added to the list. The chanson was the first sentimental music I ever admitted to liking and it works by dint of its being French.

It's funny to re-read Mickey's post on futurism above, after all this time. I wonder if his Blue Eyes had been blinded by Brasilia (Niemeyer and his sexy pavilion?). I'm not sure if the Japanese model quite applies to Brazil, but there is such freshness infused in the Brazilian aesthetic. Certainly not sure if the Thievery Corp is necessarily the answer to all our prayers.

It hasn't been dispatcehd yet though - is this a good place to start?

Anyway - HELP ME I CAN"T STOP LISTENING TO CAETANO VELOSO

I MUST KNOW IF ANYONE BOUGHT THE BOXSET ???

"A terceira margem do rio" is a great song from Circulado, what a lovely melody and chord progression (and vocal).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F0lVCkynWY

His album last year, y'all

Listen to it.

"A terceira margem do rio" is a great song from Circulado, what a lovely melody and chord progression (and vocal).
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, February 14, 2022 9:33 PM (forty-nine minutes ago)

It's one of the greatest short stories ever from Brazil, if you ever have a chance to read it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Bank_of_the_River_(short_story). Guimarães Rosa is the greatest.

love the butch morris cornet & arto guitar on circulado

Todays dollar bin Caetano CD find was Omaggio A Federico E Giulietta, a live Fellini tribute from the 90s I had no prior knowledge of. Currently kicking my ass on this warm summer night.

Half a dozen times in the liner essay he laments having vocal troubles on the night of the recording. Maybe I have a tin ear idk, but he still sounds pretty fucking good to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKgnI1q48Rc

It's during a phase I think Caetano is really reconnecting with standards as a whole, songs from his childhood radio memories.

A really great one from the same era is Fina Estampa https://www.discogs.com/release/2199404-Caetano-Veloso-Fina-Estampa

These would all be played in the radio when he was young. He discuss this a bit in his bio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tbLX8pyNq4

^ Almost a hit from this record

Have been trawling through his early albums, the ones available on Tidal anyway, and wow Araçá Azul throws you for a curve! Should be mentioned more in discussions of artists making crazy experimental albums at the height of their success.

Lots of good discussion in the early stages of this thread re: Brasil and Japan. One thing that attracts me about both the tropicalistas and the YMO crew is how they accept anglo-american influences as a fact of life but manage to integrate them in a way that still reflects their nationalities instead of seeming in thrall to them. Hardly anyone managed that in Portugal I think - even the greatest music we've produced is either in opposition to these influences or trying to imitate them. Maybe António Variações came closest to offering a synthesis...

and also in both examples it's not a simple case of "Brazilian or Japanese music with Anglo-American influences", more like a next step that incorporates those influences and also other international ones, at its best seeming to offer an aesthetic if not political way out of being the children of Marx and coca-cola

I think it all stems from this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_Antrop%C3%B3fago
It's such a big influence on everything artistic Brazil has done since, it's almost like a North Star in a way.

Araçá is awesome - Dominique Leone rightly called it almost a Faust record. Drumming on that record is <3 all time

That Manifesto link is interesting. Thanks

fpsa, are you brazilian / have you lived in brazil?

agree that Araçá Azul is great. my original pressing is one of my prized possessions -- one of a handful acquired at tropicalia in furs in NYC

gonna throw that on now, thanks thread

prob discussed earlier but his autobiography is great, recommended

yep, I'm brazilian! I'm from Pernambuco, northeast

but I'm living in NYC for the last 6 years.

Verdade tropical is all time. the prison chapter is just heartbreaking. but a lot of what makes it great is also in the chapters about his youth and formation, and his love of joão gilberto. it's such a great microcosmos on what his vision (and everybody else near him, to be honest) was like

agreed, and iirc it discusses that same manifesto?

yes, it does. the manisfesto is a huge thing here – it all relates to an idea of what constitutes modernism for Brazil, a few decades out of being under Portugal and being a nation, and facing industrialization and what constituted our identity.

macunaíma, the novel, is a clear manifestation of these ideas early on – it's pretty clear the connection here to Tropicália
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/07/books/mario-de-andrade-macunaima-apprentice-tourist.html There's also the movie from 69, recently restored https://mubi.com/films/macunaima https://www.bam.org/film/2023/macunaima

--

1973 was a great year for weirder, bold albums in general - here's a cool collection of them: https://musica.uol.com.br/noticias/redacao/2013/07/03/experimentalismo-censura-e-partes-intimas-artistas-revelam-segredos-de-5-capas-classicas-da-mpb.htm

joão donato - quem é quem. rip, just died today, a rã is brazil in less than 3 minutes. bossa nova heavyweight/pianist extraordinaire goes funky and moody. a lot of counterpoints, syncopation but so tight and breezy.
milton nascimento - milagre dos peixes. if you love rock bottom, r. wyatt, and the most floating/wordless stuff beach boys done such as surf's up or cabinessence, go for this asap.
gal costa - índia (<3 relance)
araçá azul
tom zé - todos os olhos (best(? sad really) song ever about torture and hopelessness, the title track here)
walter franco - ou não (nww list record, warped mpb/rock record)
paulinho da viola – nervos de aço (samba-canção from the greatest)
luiz melodia - "pérola negra" swinging/moody popsoulrock record, Rio de Janeiro at 3am, boozy melancholy vibe. amazing
joão gilberto - s/t (the white album)
tim maia - st (tim in front of a forest) party record all time
Novos Baianos - Novos Baianos F.C.
the satwa record (hometown shoutout!)

see also: Marconi Notaro!

true

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=336724227486111 <- caetano doing some of his araça tour on br tv (this program was Elizeth Cardoso's program. She was the first to record bossa nova https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQZrsKhSm-w)

Thanks for all the context fpsa. I'd heard about antropofagia within the tropicalia context but didn't know where the concept came from originally.

All I've heard about the movie Caetano Veloso directed is it's nigh on unwatchable, anyone caught it?

Hardly anyone managed that in Portugal I think

ummmm, have you heard quarteto 1111's "ode to the beatles" ?!

(just kidding)

lol I have but am surprised you have as well! I guess Quarteto 1111 might come across the radars of psych diggers? Certainly frontman José Cid never stops mentioning his prog album showing up on some Japanese best of list

Araçá Azul -- wow! Talk about a record with a sound that doesn't match the cover art.

haha yeah

does anybody know what the lyrics are to "Gilberto Misterioso"?

when i sing it to myself i normally go

gil hing gil hee gil ha jeenyo

lol I have but am surprised you have as well! I guess Quarteto 1111 might come across the radars of psych diggers? Certainly frontman José Cid never stops mentioning his prog album showing up on some Japanese best of list

― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, July 18, 2023 3:32 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

i can't really remember how i came across them but yeah it was probably on one of many "worldwide psych" benders. "os monstros sagrados" is a great track!

Sol ré /// It's a play on musical notes (G is Sol, and Sol is also Sun in pt-br) and Ré (D and also backwards)
Sol-ol /// Just aliteration on Sun again here

Gil engendra /// You prob know this is Gilberto Gil, but the rest is just a ref to a poem from Sousandrade, a wacky/weird modern poet – engendra means engender, to produce, spawn something. So, Gil produces...
Em Gil rouxinol /// ... In(inside?) Gil nightingale
Gil engendra
Em Gil rouxinol

Great song. Reminds me of Red Crayola in a way, but Caetano goes all the way on these micro/minimal songs with full wordplay on other poetry/folksongs. Transa has something kinda similar to this as well.

you can also go deep here! http://lendocancao.blogspot.com/2019/09/gil-engendra-em-gil-rouxinol-gilberto.html

My cats went batshit for that song. Not a real rouxinol, guys!

right, okay, it's coming back to me (?)

i'm guessing gilberto gil must've been nicknamed "rouxinol" at some point

https://i.discogs.com/r9cCGopnifM_TeraxlczLibNIlbXaVi7z3q5vLk_x7U/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:586/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTU2NDc1/OTgtMTM5ODg4NDU0/MS02NTg3LmpwZWc.jpeg

ok blogspot post leads to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt1yv-c8a54

<3

Seeing video clips of his current US tour and wishing I had been back in town to have seen him last night in dc area gig at Strathmore. They’re now saying this is his last US tour. Oh well, at least I have seen him a few times before .

When I saw that he was touring, I was bummed that he wasn't coming to Chicago. Or maybe he is and I somehow missed it?

the show is great, saw him at BAM. HOWEVER!!! Historical revisionism now makes brazillians sing along to "You don't know me" but when he plays fucking Cajuina almost no one does!!! I mean, I love Transa – but people, for the love of god, there are other Caetano records lol.

i like both of those songs but it's much easier for me to sing the songs that are in a language i know how to speak ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

although i will cop to yogurting quite a bit to caetano's music, lol

I don’t think you missed a Chicago gig Josh, looks like it was just an east coast and west coast Veloso tour

budo jeru, I have no qualms with english-speaking fans - but BAM was packed with Brazilians tho!!! And my larger point is – Transa became in the last 25 years something of a OK Computer for regular listeners, and becomes really boring to see people hyping it to the extreme while completely disregarding the rest of a huge catalog. And Cajuína is a hit! From a even bigger successful record, Cinema Transcendental (a hit about suicide and the loss of a son, but still, such a pretty song)

(the listeners who disregard everything but Transa in the post above are again, BRA listeners. most US/Europe/Japan fans love Caetano all around mostly)

it's a pet peeve of mine, sorry. it happens with other artists as well – people who only love Tábua de Esmeralda but not all Jorge Ben, or people who love Racional Vol1 but don't listen to Tim Maia. It's similar to someone saying they love Dub but can't listen to Reggae - gtfo!!!

right. i mean, i have basically never heard anyone talk about Transa so i don't even know what it would be like to have your experience. i have heard Cinema Transcendental many times and, while i like it, respectfully i don't think it comes close to Transa. but that's a bit like saying this or that painting doesn't come close to the Sistine Chapel or something (sorry if i'm inadvertently adding to the hype)

haha no worries. I love Transa, it's one of a kind, but it's just 1 part of Caetano

Cinema Transcendental punches above the weight for me in several songs – Cajuina, the title track, Lua de São Jorge. I heard this songs in the radio, it's not that fair, I do love them a lot. It's a poppier/breezier side to Caetano for sure. I associate it with a general type of light MPB tracks for the early 80s that, in a larger sense, became what people associate with MPB as a 'genre' for a long time

btw, he was touring recently a show playing Transa in full again – so there's some hope he does that show here as well (but with a diff band – you almost need a hardcore/grind drummer for a track like Neolithic Man! true freak folk <3)