Hell Is Other People At Breakfast - Caring For Your Introvert

That's true, but I wonder if that's just normal self-effacement?

Ned: I think categories in this matter might being too easily codified by this fellow and by other writers.

Always an issue with these types of articles anyway.

I'd like to remind folks that introversion is not equivalent to shyness. Like the article said, shyness is anxiety in the presence of others. Most introverts i know, myself included to some degree, are perfectly capable of dealing with other humans, just that they don't goddamn feel like it a lot of the time. Root causes are different: misanthropy, disappointment, or just plain avoidance, but the external behavior comes out looking pretty much the same. Folks who are really shy _just can't deal_ with other humans without real difficulty. I think that when most people say they're really introverted, they're just plain mistaken. Most people aren't real introverts. Most people can go to huge parties with folks that they don't know and will do just fine. I'd be screaming and trying to rip out my eyeballs, most likely, or taking a very minimal approach to the human interaction required for me to find the door...

As for the gigantic, sweeping generalizations that the author went into late into the article (to which i think Ned was pointing) he sorta lost me there. Yeah, of course i feel like i'm different from everyone else, but i'm not sure that's the root cause of the mess that we're in now.

Interestingly, the author (a self-defined introvert) didn't even try to give the rest of us A FUCKING CLUE about how to deal with it. But then he probably figured that we couldn't be bothered to listen to him...

I'm unsure how to address the question of how introversion affects personal relationships. In terms of real introversion, i don't know that there's a cure other than finding someone who is comfortable and secure enough in their relationship to you that they can understand you might need more space than other folks. Of course, explaining/identifying that particular necessity is easier said than done.

I've been lucky in this respect, though i must admit that i'm somewhat starved for adult interaction by the end of a day of fathering my 2-year-old or sitting in front of the computer writing/amimating. I guess i'm not a dyed-in-the-wool introvert, but i'm certainly more intro than extro.

That said, i don't look at extroverts as frighteninly bubbly social butterflies; instead i recognize that they're just wired funny.

'Cause i'm okay. Right?

Right?

I'm still seeing the 'buggered' thing.

Odd, because I've developped such a big personality to overcompensate that many people believe me to be an extravert. Trust me, I'm not.

Filthmongering on ILX? I'm shocked! Shocked!

It's not that I hate people, it's that I don't like being around them very often. I'd prefer to live alone, in the mountains, and go to visit people when I want company. I don't want people calling me and coming to visit because they're worried 'cause they've not heard from me for a few days. I don't want people trying to "pull me out of my shell." I'm not in a shell, thank you very much; I am living as I like; I do not need to be "rescued" from the company of myself.
I can do the whole social scene and such, but I find it draining and dull - to be honest, I don't like most people enough to want to be around them for any length of time. It isn't that I think they're horrid or anything, just that they don't appeal to me, for whatever reason.
Given the choice, I'd prefer relationships with an emphasis on individual time alone to relationships where we're often together. Ugh. Living next-door to a lover would be fine - sharing a house is dificult, but can be managed so long as there are separate bedrooms and bathrooms and offices - but actually sharing a bedroom and bath and such, well, forget it. I can't do it. I need my *own* space - and I do not want to share it, with anyone.

Wow - I sound like a bitch, don't I? *laughing* Oh well, 'tis life. And I am happy with my current arrangement, and that is what counts to me.

That's not strange at all - I get those questions pretty often too, and not just when I'm in troglodyte programmer mode and have the Acid Mothers Temple turned up,

May I? --

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1) How to deal with an introvert:
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Back off for a while (without anger or accusation) when an introvert admits to a genuine need for space. Don't assume that "I need to be alone" automatically means "I hate you" ... more times than not, it just means "I need to be alone". As the famous country song once put it : "how can I miss you if you won't go away?" ... Go away for a while. When you come back a few hours/days later, not only will you find that the introvert is in a much better mood, you'll also find that the introvert missed you -- moreso than if you'd been there during that time, demanding attention and getting on that person's nerves. Try to tune into the introvert's signals : notice the changes in body language, attitude, etc that seem to preface every request for "Down Time". Learning these signals will make it easier for you to predict that person's moods.

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2) How to, as an introvert, deal:
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Communicate very clearly (without anger or accusation) that you need some space. Don't assume that an extrovert can guess this based on your actions and attitudes alone. [Ironically, the signals that an introvert uses to push people away (grouchiness, silence, brooding, sighing) are the very same signals that an extrovert uses to draw people in. This is the reason why introverts tend to react to other people's brooding by leaving the room, whereas extroverts tend to react to other people's brooding by asking "what's wrong?"]. Be careful that you don't abuse your 'right to remain silent' either. For instance, if you're in the middle of an important discussion with someone else, and he/she brings up an important, but unpleasant, topic, you can't suddenly say "I need to be alone now". That's not introversion, that's evasion. Talk through it, no matter how difficult it seems, reach some sort of conclusion -- then ask for some time alone immediately after. (Even Miss Manners won't begrudge you time alone after you'd made an honest effort at communicating, though the author of the article incorrectly assumes otherwise).

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the big theme :
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Communication.

Before you move in with someone, before you marry someone, before you date someone -- heck, before you do _anything_ with someone, try to figure out where that person stands on the spectrum of introversion and extroversion (nobody is 100% introvert or extrovert, I find). Once you think you know, then do your best to adapt, and expect the other person to do the same for you. You can't have a stable relationship without compromise, but you can't compromise too much without jeopardizing your relationship either.

Finding out if you're compatible at the very beginning saves a lot of pain and anger at the very end.

Hope that helps.

For my part, I took a Myers-Briggs test years ago for work. Upon receiving my results, my only surprise was that I wasn't completely off the chart for introversion.

Enough already; I know I'm an INTP at this point. I'm sick of these lame courses, but seeing as how it looks good on the old resume to take something like this once in a while I'm sure I'll be in for it again soon.

On the plus side, its an excuse to travel and I did get to go to Space Camp last year (too bad its in Alabama).

Of course, if folks could just skip down to tbe Big Theme, they'd be doing themselves a huge favor.

Good contributions all around here though. I see a lot of myself in the article, which is interesting as for the past two+ years, I've been working closely with salespeople, and of course you tend not to get introverts in sales. I think I've become passably good at
playing an extrovert in my job (at least the salespeople and I haven't killed each other yet), but on the other hand I still have the ability to close my door and let phone mail take the calls when I need (occasional) solitude.

I certainly lean more towards introverted, and find myself speaking out loud for the first time in days when I go to the market to respond to the "paper or plastic" question. Usually that same morning I'll have gone out to breakfast, alone with New York Times, looking around, wondering, "Christ, wouldn't you rather be eating alone?"

That said, there is more than one section of the paper.

I get told that I'm a rude cunt, that I have no social skills, because I can't chatter nicely and say "please" and "thank you" while I'm trying to wake up and get my "dealing with other people" head on. It's not that I'm being rude, it's just that I CANNOT DO IT. It takes energy to deal with other people, no matter how much I adore them, and I don't have that kind of energy before my first three cups of caffeine. Sigh.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200602u/introverts

that article was so otm for me when i read it in high school. i think college has somehow made me more extroverted, though. strange.

I dunno, it reads like one of those three-level jokes:

(a) "We're better than you."
(b) Hahahaha, just kidding.
(c) Hahahaha, I'm not kidding at all.

For example:

(from the original article) Sometimes, as we gasp for air amid the fog of their 98-percent-content-free talk, we wonder if extroverts even bother to listen to themselves.

(or, dave q's whole rant, above)

ha. i know this guy who i would always see at parties who would just sit at the bar alone or stand by the wall, just watching people having fun. we're acquaintances, so i'd always felt bad for him, like "oh he doesn't have any friends here, i'll go chit-chat with him". i'd go over, make small talk, but he wouldn't be that responsive, so i'd talk even more to get him to talk more and 'have fun". i thought i was helping, but i guess really he just wanted me to shut the fuck up, go away, and let him soak things up. oh well. next time, i'll just wave from across the room.

increasing trend towards neuro-diversity means = you will be classified in every particular so that the exact parameters of your inclusion can be determined.

or exclusion

xps abbott’s & vg’s living situations seem ideal to me

max's post about introversion sometimes being misused as a cover for depression also otm. (and something i've only recently recognized about myself.)

seconded. as depression-prone introvert it’s v difficult stimes to disentangle, discern (or decide) where one ends & other begins
and/or dangerously convenient stimes not to (self-rationalizing)

think introversion/depression combo is related (in part) to my <3 of photographing. it’s a way simultaneously to
be out in the world, in swim of things (often among humans, crowd of humans, interacting with humans, in way v attuned & connected to them: rarely feel misanthropy when photographing, more often overwhelmed with <3 )/
yet (nevertheless) alone, luxuriously alone/
yet out of myself (which is good for the depressive self-loathing; cf garry winogrand: “How do I say it? The way I would put it is that I get totally out of myself. It’s the closest I come to not existing, I think, which is the best--which is to me attractive.”)

btw will stick up for extroverts, some of my best friends are extroverts :)
(really)

that's a good insight about photography! i need more (semi-)healthy habits like that.

on the heels of my realization about my own introversion/depression, peter sloterdijk's essay "rules for the human zoo" really made me re-think my relationship to books in a totally dispiriting way (and seemed to mimic my own slow process of disillusionment).

Im looking forward to reading this thread. Im a lone wolf. I'm more eager to go on my computer than hang out with the last few friends I keep (kept?) up with. Yet I still find myself lying on my bed when the pc is 8 feet away.

Introverts can be dicks that snap at you like crab in a bad mood
Extroverts can be dicks when their ego goes to their head

I figure its time to do something about it but doing things seems like work and motivational speeches are effective for 10 minutes tops

http://introvertdear.com/

i feel like thought catalog must have a stake in this 'vertical'

What’s Up with the Name Introvert, Dear?

When Jenn named her blog Introvert, Dear, she imagined a wise, older woman inviting a troubled young introvert to sit down on her fancy chaise lounge for a therapy session. The therapist began her worldly advice by saying, “Now, introvert, dear…”

quincie's post upthread would make a good blog name, "Butthurt Introvert"

That's a good one. It's part of the introvert's lifelong journey, learning to quell the reactive butthurt.

this thread is insane

fuck people

oh well if you go back to before "man alive"'s posts it seems fine.

still... aklsfjqnwe89fq3kefnlkw;wf

get your nose out of that book and socialize

Introvertdear prompted to take Meyers-Briggs for maybe the 12th time. And I continue to get slightly different results, but certainly always Introvert. Does anyone have the latest stats re: percentage of people identifying intro vs extro? I want to say it was something like 25% vs 75%, which explains why these articles and websites for support, or clarification on why introversion is "ok" keep popping up.

A lot of this thread rings true to me, unfortunately, including the stuff about how introversion claims are covers for depression. Not because I think it's true, but because I know some other people do. To me, introversion is simply the concept that interacting w/other people is draining, and time alone is recharging. You still want to interract w/other people, but only until it gets to be too much. I don't think think it has anything to do w/depression at all. Anyone can be depressed.

For bipolar people depression can alternate with manic elation, which definitely has nothing to do with introversion.

I'm like textbook introvert in that 'extraverts draw energy from other people, other people draw energy from introverts' sense. I'm socially functional and I like people (and love the people who are part of my web) but intentionally very low-key (okay, maybe mostly withdrawn, even) on a social level because socialization exhausts me. And it's not just the immediate act of socializing but also all of the attendant scaffolding that needs to be erected around social obligations and expectations. I can do family and close close friends but anything beyond that...I've got like an hour tops before I'm spent.

I put off tasks which involve communicating with other people because all the dancing around trying to sound nice and helpful and reasonable, second-guess exactly what everyone wants, not upset anyone = so draining and daunting

this is not a way to be productive or feel good at work (or at home for that matter: feel bad about my total inability to stay in touch with anyone) and also has incurred a few financial costs and complications this year because I didn't want to query things/ask for refunds

I don't know what I'm asking rly, guess not "is this normal" because it isn't, maybe "does anyone else" or "can I fix this" or just a howl into the void

I also don't know to what extent it's some kind of social anxiety and to what extent just plain laziness, as def both are involved and play off each other

(I have failed to negotiate with another team at work, having put off writing that email for weeks and probably worsened my odds of getting a positive response in the process, and now have to ask my colleague to do some inconveniently timed extra tasks, which I am now also putting off as if hoping I'll die in the next hour or so instead of having to do it. this is an extreme example of a repeated pattern of avoidance)

it would help if work conversations could be had 1 on 1 so my awkward conversation could at least not be overheard by 10 other people, but that is not an option except via email, which has its own disadvantages e.g. no way to spot that your request is going down even worse than feared and improvise some concessions

It sounds like maybe some structure to limit the third-guessing and procrastination could help? Seems like that might be somewhere you can exert some control. I've no idea how to make interaction less fraught, sadly.

Thanks, El Tomboto. What kind of structure? Setting myself stricter deadlines for tasks involving communication? I fear I am too bad at ignoring self-imposed attempts at structure but of course it's a good skill to practise and I should do more of that.

I used to have a boss who I could call on for backup if anyone wouldn't take no for an answer, but the current one is hard to get hold of and I don't trust him to fight our corner

A colleague is leaving at the end of the month and is "giving a leaving lecture" because he finds that less awkward than going down the pub. This is not an academic colleague, btw.

APS, Yes, like do one uncomfortable thing every other day. Alternate home/personal with work tasks. Treat it like exercising.

Deadlines aren't useful but habits are.

Also "every other day" can be it's own reward mechanism, in that doing the thing means you get to not do it the day after

This is a thing I need to do in many respects, so, good idea to at least try out.

Also "every other day" can be it's own reward mechanism, in that doing the thing means you get to not do it the day after

I like this thinking!

Scik, what's the leaving lecture going to be about, do you know?

I have found my previous traditional leaving drinks/pub lunches kind of awkward and embarrassing, but public speaking is actively horrifying and having to prepare a talk is exactly the kind of thing I put off forever, so no way would I swap.

I can't believe I just fucked up the apostrophe its

gonna give a lecture when i move out of my apartment

it's gonna be about DOOR-SLAMMING and HALLWAY VOICES

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31901827_10157401265114148_6592763726934310912_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b7eaafd442efd1f183e4d6ed59a52494&oe=5B9C1D2E

Yes, thank you (although I would argue that most meetings could skip the call step and go straight to email).

That you have to have someone call you so you can adjust the ringer volume on your office phone is actually pretty funny.

lol had to do that today after getting a new headset...was used to being able to do test calls on Skype for Business but now we're on Teams who know

Usually experience holidays as a kind of a They Shoot Horses, Don’t They non-stop marathon of talking by the extroverts.

Every boring story is another you’ve gotta hear this! Dick’s Picks version of “Dark Star.”

Perhaps with this I have already alienated a good portion of the posters who have frequented this thread.

It is a choice one makes as an alternative to being alone. It could be fortunate to have a choice.
Family in particular ... why do we care what they say?

As someone who is often extremely extroverted but then has to recoup that energy later with some low-demand days, I'm balancing today between people I have to put a TON of energy into being around, ie people who I'm not on the same wavelength as, so I have to heavily moderate my behavior/reactions...and later, going to see people who are very low-effort ie we're on the same page on so many things that being around them is a pleasure.

More of the latter in my life, pls.

I mean idk if that's being extro OR intro-verted, I think it's just "being around people" but whatever.

amen to the latter

It's folks who talk about themselves at length but never once think to ask how I'm doing that I cannot be doing with anymore, which sadly is 90% of my wife's extended family.

Sorry. Feeling that one.

Seems to me some people just keep talking the way they would keep the engine running in their car so their battery won’t die.

when I used to hang out with people my favourites were those who talked about themselves without wanting or expecting any reciprocity

This is a interesting point. People talking about themselves at length is fine as long as they are picking up on the subtle or not-so-subtle cues of body language and such on whether you want to keep listening.

Which is similar to what MaresNest said.

I only learned “body language” is real a few years ago, I had thought it was made up for detective stories

i’m hyper-aware of body language & micro-expressions so my stories are like two sentences long bc i’ll cut it short at the slightest hint of boredom

but my inner self just constantly tells me to shut up even when ppl seem intetested so i’m a better listener than talker lol

I feel like I'm a pretty good listener and am genuinely interested in other people's lives.

I don't think I really require much reciprocal engagement, but when someone is sorta stuck on transmit all the while, I begin to get nervous and wonder why I'm even here.

Otm