The purpose built next generation interstellar Dawn Richard thread

I'm interested in whether this is something Dawn has thought about in strategic commercial terms as well as simply in terms of following her muse: it's possible that it really does make more sense to go in this direction and carve out a respected niche than to compete in a playing field where these days many more entrants fail than succeed.

― Tim F, Tuesday, December 4, 2012 2:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

iirc she said in an interview that when A Tell-Tale Heart came out, she specifically watched for reaction to "Bulletproof" because she thought if her fans would embrace that song, they'd be ready to take the next step with her

aw man I love bulletproof

presumably Whiteout was recorded after Goldenheart, right?

just listened to the armor on EP

it's really fucking great

i'm super hungover from the public enemy show last nite and the whole thing is pretty dreamy (also this whiteout one too) and i fell asleep at my desk for a minute (in a good way)

saw freshalina dissing dawn on twitter :(

honestly thats a contrived :( i havent listened to any of her post-diddy stuff either. what's the best way to check it out

that's sort of right in her wheelhouse tho as an ex-reality star/gossip figure slumming it on her own

honestly thats a contrived :( i havent listened to any of her post-diddy stuff either. what's the best way to check it out

Armor On and Whiteout are on Spotify

revisiting some kate bush by way of displaced research

think it's a minor but important distinction that i'd rather goldenheart sound more like 'hounds of love (alternative)' or 'running up that hill (12" mix)' than the album versions

At least one tune should sound like Propaganda's "Dream Within A Dream".

part of the melody on on 'wynter' reminds me so much of the chorus of crystal castles' 'not in love'

a really great winter album

listening to it now after our exchange and, yeah, it's wintry enough to force the thermometer to drop a couple degrees in South Florida.

sorry: r|t|c.

havent really been drawn back into the ep since

i could still be wrong though, just this once

it took a few listens to click--and hey it snowed today--but now I think it's as good as Armor On and couldn't be more excited for the album

"And The Bells" and "Wynter" are as good as Armor On; "Whiteout" and "Miles" are not (though not bad).

Hmm, tbh, I'm at the point right now where all the songs gel into a single suite--they could sort into categories later. One thing in Whiteout's favor is that I'm sometimes not in the mood for "Bombs" and "Automatic" (though I like those songs a lot when I'm up for them), whereas Whiteout has so far felt too short each listen.

yeah, whiteout is def a set it and forget it listen

yeah, whiteout is def a set it and forget it listen

― 乒乓, Tuesday, 18 December 2012 3:13 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is this really a point in its favour.

one of dawn's strengths is that she takes advantage of the album format, come on man tell tale heart was all about this

yeah but the songs themselves were very memorable which you could never say about "whiteout"; "miles" is memorable mainly because it sounds like it was beamed in from the wrong part of 1998.

wow, #rare that u are so wrong. do you also dislike Diddy/Brandy's even greater "Thought You Said"!?

To be clear it's not that I dislike "Whiteout" or "Miles" but Armor On is far and away my favourite album of the year and I don't think those two particular tunes match up to it, it's actually selling short the album to suggest otherwise IMO.

Like it's okay we can admit that not everything with based production from Dawn is going to be the best thing in the universe.

"Thought You Said" was great though.

I agree that the tunes aren't as sharp as on Armor On, but the new EP's atmosphere is amazing.

I agree re the atmosphere, and on the two stand-outs it's a win-win IMO.

I guess the thing for me is that it's never just atmospherics with Dawn. Her songs work b/c of their emotional intensity, and particularly what she does with her harmonies. One of the things that feels uniquely Dawn on Armor On but also on "Wild 'n' Young" (arguably "Pretty Wicked Things" but I don't think it feels as unique or distinctive there - great tune though) is this sense of inexorably climaxing intensity, the songs just build and build and build with this unstoppable force.

I think it's that quality, rather than strong songwriting per se, that is really Dawn's killer stroke. Inventive arrangements are necessary but not (by themselves) sufficient.

Like m@tt I just recently listened to Armor On for the first time (Telltale Heart too) . Fantastic stuff.

I do think "Miles" is the new set's strongest tune tho.

whiteout is excellent and i have no complaints at all, but comparing it to armor on, which seems so obviously the more accomplished work, is odd to me. it's a freebie curio to make up for delaying the album, and dawn seems to have been mindful that these tracks weren't her strongest song-wise (either she wrote them quickly recently, or had them just lying around) and gone out of her way to nail the production and atmosphere to compensate. and she did nail it, it's a gorgeous little winter suite that's really engrossing in a certain mood or on headphones (and it works as a suite rather than a cherrypicking exercise - "whiteout" barely has a hook but it leads into the ep so well).

my 50 words of snow comparison was offhand but whiteout is pretty much fulfilling the exact same function in my life atm

lex otm

The idea that this is as good as Armor On was the only thing I was responding to, though.

Who said that?

Rob upthread

Tim, I think re: "Miles" in particular, having never been a dnb head or indeed, really lived through its original existence (I'm pretty sure the first time I heard of it was w/r/t "Bombs Over Baghdad", which was a bit misleading to say the least), I don't have the specific negative association with late-period dnb beats that you have. I can't really even tell the difference between those eras unless I stop to think about it, whereas any use of a dnb beat in an r&b tune is fairly novel to me. I don't even know what '98 era pop-dnb you'd be comparing this to.

i think it sounds a bit like when everything but the girl started using dnb beats

No it's not at all like late nineties d&b, more like late nineties pop electronica.

I don't really want to preempt my review too much but there's a big qualitative difference b/w the use of d&b on "Black Lipstick" and the use of d&b on "Miles".

No it's not at all like late nineties d&b, more like late nineties pop electronica.

― Tim F, Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:38 AM Bookmark

Sure, but I was pretty much ignorant of this stuff, too. Afaik, "Missing" is the only ETBTG song I've heard.

The breakbeat on Miles is just about the only thing I don't really care for on Whiteout. It just sounds wrong.

It's not the retroness that bothers me, more that the beat isn't really integrated - "Miles" feels like the work of someone who was impressed by d&b but didn't really get it (which is odd because "Black Lipstick" totally got it). That's why I flash on pop-electronica, that sense of people thinking that fast drum loops are impressive in and of themselves. (to be clear I still like the tune a fair bit)

I thought of Madonna's "Little Star" when I first heard it, but on re-examination that is actually way more bass-driven than I remembered (albeit in a Good Looking kind of way). EBTG's "Before Today" is probably a decent reference point though (let's leave alone "Walking Wounded" which is on another level):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYJPGQ9iCNc

more that the beat isn't really integrated

i'm relistening now and i don't hear what you mean by this?

It feels sellotaped over the top rather than a natural fit with the song.

Yeah.

The beat on "Black Lipstick" really drives the song, its propulsiveness and its hesitations are what Dawn pivots around.

On "Miles" the beat just loops prettily in the background.

Lack of bass an issue, in part. Which is understandable: "Miles" isn't a song that would work with strong bass, I think. But by the same token if that's the case then a straight sped-up breakbeat is probably gonna sound distracting.

If I was producing it I'd probably drag it closer to Janet Jackson's "Empty": if you're gonna use rippling percussion as unadulterated pretty soundstuff you may as well go all the way.

Of course it's deeply unfair to invoke "Empty" which is as close to perfection as music has ever gotten.

"black lipstick" just has a fuller arrangement to my ears - those ominous chimes are what drives it most of all, two separate drum patterns (i can hear how one of them drops in and out at pivotal points but the underlying one doesn't seem any more integrated than on "miles"?)

Could it just be a function of how the two records are mixed? In "Whiteout", the drums are all panned to one side, which has something of a distancing effect, whereas in "Black Lipstick" they have a more typical balance.

err "Whiteout" "Miles"