ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

Just imagine what life would be like if you were supposed to have an ellipsis after that "C" instead...

FML were that the case, yes

Stupid grammar.

Just a trivial correction here. This sort of typographical convention is entirely detached from grammar. Grammar is intrinsic to a language, while typography is extrinsic.

This is why I defer to the grammar fiends :)

that is not a trivial correction!

I considered it trivial because the complaint it corrected was not seriously intended.

ah but the distinction itself -- not trivial!

Just imagine what life would be like if you were supposed to have an ellipsis after that "C" instead...

As someone who overuses ellipses, I've confronted this a few times--I always went with three dots instead of four.

I never liked this punctuation on the inside business, and I think if we all just agreed in secret to move it to the outside, in a few years time, it won't even be a thing anymore.

naw it looks silly on the outside imo. did the boys of 1776 die for nothing?

I wrote for one American magazine that, for stylistic reasons of its own, put punctuation outside quotation marks. Always looked goofy to me, but it was their call. I could never remember to write that way, though, so I just let them relocate the periods and commas.

well, which looks sillier?

Sheryl Crow wrote "Benny and the Jets", the best song in her career.
Sheryl Crow wrote "Benny and the Jets," the best song in her career.

Top one looks sillier, but it's hard to say why except habit and expectation.

Sheryl Crow writing a song like "Benny and the Jets" – the silliest of them all.

^^ But hey, by the inside rules, I should've written:

Sheryl Crow writing a song like "Benny and the Jets –" the silliest of them all.

I mean, punctuation is punctuation, right?

Sir, let us not be ridiculous!

How about:
Sheryl Crow wrote "Benny and the Jets", "Master of Puppets", and "Nothing Compares 2 U" while in an opium haze.
Sheryl Crow wrote "Benny and the Jets," "Master of Puppets," and "Nothing Compares 2 U" while in an opium haze.

we'll always have oxford (commas)

you would put 4 dots there if there was an ellipsis, if i recall correctly....

That's purely a stylistic question (as is your original question). I think what you were really asking was, "Does anyone here have the APA manual?"

Stupidly, the APA manual is not available online, or I would have purchased that fucker.

Associated Press Guide To Punctuation ©2003:

Well-known initials (my emphasis) don't have periods. FBI CIA FAA LBJ

Does KC & The Sunshine Band count? Does he qualify as well-known? And if so, does that translate to someone who isn't a 70s disco star, but also has the same name?

Periods and commas always go inside the quotation marks. Exclamation points, question marks, dashes and semi-colons do not always go inside.

Didn't Mark Anthony say, "I have not come to bury Caesar, but to praise him"?

Gertrude Stein once asked, "What is the question?"

But back to periods and commas: Always means always. Last night, I watched "The Cosby Show," "Family Ties," "Cheers," and "Night Court."

Again, I don't like that, but I didn't get to make up the rules.

...I have a couple of follow-up questions for which I would be grateful if you would answer at your liesure.

seems so wrong. help?

What's wrong with "which I would be grateful if you would answer..."?

The "for" is leading you astray, dear boy. Drop it.

I have a couple of follow-up questions,

... answers for which, if provided by you at your liesure, would inspire within me gratitude in your direction.

... for which I need answers, and if you provided me with same at your liesure, I would feel grateful.

... and if answers to these came from you, purely at your liesure of course, then that would be swellerific in my view and incidentally, I'd be grateful, not at my liesure, but at once, without let or hindrance.

... and if, at your liesure, you could answer them for me, then I would be most grateful.

I would lean toward the last of the above suggested variants.

I have a couple of follow-up questions for which, if you would answer at your liesure leisure, I would be grateful.

Depends really on your stomach for ending on a preposition, i.e. grateful for would be the clearest formulation, imo.

is liesure already a legit variant?

lie, sure

What's wrong with "I have a couple of follow-up questions for you to answer at your leisure"?!

Or, possibly: "I hv a cpl follw-up qs fr y to answr at yr liesur."

hit me up yo

Stop it, all of you. Well, not Lechera, she just made the whole thing simpler. Leee in particular is forcing me to repeat myself: LOSE THE "FOR." IT'S JUST WRONG.

yes, LL's formulation was easily the simplest, most direct and best way to say it.

it loses the gratitude but i guess that's these modern times for you.

just write the list and then express gratitude at the end in a separate sentence

i have a couple of follow up questions, but please don't feel rushed, i'm just happy you're doing this oh god oh god you hate me don't you, whatever, do it, or don't, i don't run your life, i mean it's obviously up to you, there aren't any rules where i'm the one who tells anybody what to do, it's your time to spend as you wish so anything you provide right now is seriously just a huge bonus and i don't expect it, but at the same time i am very interested in anything you might have to say, so.. wait sorry i've misplaced those questions, let me check my email

The gratitude was unnecessary imo.

went with tracer's

JUST ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTIONS.

Try that.

I'm cross posting this from the Chicago thread:

I need a quick refresher on helping verbs and the past perfect tense.

Plaintiff files a complaint against Defendant.
Defendant files a motion to dismiss part of the complaint.
Defendant must respond to the complaint, including the parts that it is trying to have dismissed.

Should the responses read: "Defendant filed a Motion to Dismiss" because it is a finite action that occurred in the past and is no longer occurring, or should the responses read "Defendant has filed a Motion to Dismiss" because filing the motion to dismiss by necessity occurred prior to the Defendant responding to the complaint?

that's the present perfect, btw

that's what i said

Okay.

q:

should the 'a' in "fuckin' a" be capitalized in a normal orthographical context?

i think not, but i don't have a chicago manual handy to try to figure out what sort of rule they would slot it under.

btw, this thread has lots of "fucking"s in it. most seem to be of scottish provenance if i am not mistaken. fuckin' a.

kinda feel like it should be capitalized

Just like someone would say he's fitted to a T, I too would think A is capitalized.

You could say, Fuckin' "A," but c'mon, that looks ridiculous.

I say capitalized.

The convention would be the same as that used for referencing the letter A within a sentence, so that I favor capitalizing it as well. I would also be certain to cite this phrase only within a direct quotation attributed to a person or a fictional character, rather than as an integral part of a body of unquoted text.