I'm not looking for moral instruction or rectitude ANYWHERE! I just don't like seeing a major magazine throwing around the word "faggot."
― Jody Beth Rosen, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dave M. (rotten03), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
Whereas I find a lot of cheap-playground-diss music writing ignorant and ill-informed and I think it can do more harm than good considering we're living in a culture that discourages intellectualism and serious thought, and encourages hateful little soundbites.
― Jody Beth Rosen, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
geeta: is anyone saying they dislike vice becauze they're (ilxers) against smash-yr-idols articles? or is it because what they wrote about the fall is as close as you can get to the bad standup parody of standing around and saying, "dude, like, what is up with *that*?" (almost literally! read it again)?
― ch. (synkro), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
"Nerd culture is in ascendency and it's pretty cool.""The Powerpuff Girls movie is hilarious!""Bullies are desperately pathetic and stupid no matter how they cast themselves.""There is no point to this article beyond venting for comedic effect." (This is the reading I came away with, for what it's worth.)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
I agree on that count. :-)
― Jody Beth Rosen, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
(thx jess)
― ch. (synkro), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
Apples vs. Oranges: FITE!
― Jody Beth Rosen, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
I can criticize this editorial choice, though, can't I?
― Jody Beth Rosen, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
I don't think Vice is always funny, and as I did say upthread, I don't think they try hard enough. I think quite a few of their jokes do fall flat; if I was their editor I would probably recommend to them to lay off the coke and head for the beer.
― geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 21:57 (twenty-one years ago) link
― ch. (synkro), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
I don't read it regularly or anything, BTW.
PS I've always found The Onion to be total shit.
― sundar subramanian, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
The only tone I detect running through all of them is this phony transgression thing, where this big value is placed upon anything that stirs people up or gets them defensive or assaults their sensibilities -- apparently for the sole purpose of the text sort of lording it over you afterward and trying to make you feel like an uptight pussy for disapproving. I really don't like that whole thing, in that the underlying message is "You care about something? That's so fucking lame."
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
Weird thing is that I've always sensed that they do care, though in a specifically delineated way. Fashion? Definitely. Music? More than I think is being given credit for (the music review section at the back often has some sharp, scabrous and celebratory entries). Perhaps they're like the Onion in trying to have their cake and eat it too, except that their own version of the AV Club isn't specifically set apart from the main text.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
― sundar, who sometimes reads my housemate's Maxim when no one is looking, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
The Onion has been really lacking these days, sadly.
― geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
There was an article about Colombian art students that was sort of interesting, but then they had to go and fuck it up and spell the nationality "Columbian" in the title. Talk about not caring.
― Jody Beth Rosen, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
Dated, lame and deeply pretentious. (Putting it that way makes me see why Momus is so keen on it: you could say, without being mean, that rehabilating the pretentious in all its facets is one of his goals as a public figure.)
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
Well FUCK THAT SHIT. Getting 'tude for broadly "caring about things" from a magazine with fashion spreads is like being criticized by a doll collector for taking music "too seriously."
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:39 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 15 October 2002 22:41 (twenty-one years ago) link
Vice is a 'boundary-pusher' and a trend-setter. Its New Brutalism is a pastiche, a well-captured adolescent voice designed to alienate one generation and consequently attract a new, younger one and pass it on to the advertisers. We should save the derision we're currently pouring on Vice for the much less intelligent imitators coming even now in its wake. For if Vice is Ziggy, watch out, here comes Alvin Stardust!
― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 01:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 01:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
he is four years old = "faggot" is transgressive (and funny!)
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 02:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 02:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
DJ the Girl (Amy Kellner), DJ Soccer Star (Meredith Danluck), Boney M (Michal Jurewicz)
Is the Art Fag crew.
ART FAGs TUESDAYs is this Tuesday Night at Passerby, 436 W 15th (btw 9/10) (no cover). Every Tuesday except the first Tuesday of the month (which is Nico Mazet "Undertone")
Hear the music!
*********************
― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 03:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 03:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 04:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― daria gray (daria gray), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 04:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 04:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
Anyway I really wanted to post to note that I actually think Maxim and Vice are a different kettle of fish in a certain way. For one thing, Maxim can be pretty consistantly funny and veers from the "transgressive" aesthetit of vice for a more pc-backlash "we think sex an beer are cool so whatever you wanna think, fine" sorta way which can lead to scary places but hey -- I like sex and beer and cars and gadgets. They're not ALL I like, but I don't mind something which focuses on them since actually I don't tend to encounter much on them elsewhere, at least not like maxim does and in a way i can tolerate and maybe this is my limited subset of existance more than anything else but...
Also, I think some of the only smart pop-cult crit. Camille Pagillia has done in a long time has been her praise of the Maxim aesthetic in photography of hot chiXor.
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
(2) Jody writes, re the question "don't you guys have any sense that...that they are satirizing themselves and their readers and the conventions of music mags?": "Nah, I think they're just picking at their own scabs, and by doing so, they make themselves look even uglier." I think there's a degree to which it is satirical, but the more overt stupidity of it makes it untenable as such for a lot of people, including me a lot of the time: the joke that fell into itself, in a way. I also think people who compare Vice and Maxim have pretty obviously never read either.
― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:13 (twenty-one years ago) link
― boxcubed (boxcubed), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 05:39 (twenty-one years ago) link