I put forward my thoughts on the other thread, where this conversation should be carried out, instead you decide to start a fresh thread and basically start again, jeez.
I won't be posting on any of these threads again that's for sure, especially when people such as yourselves with your thoughts on rails will just keep spurting out facts that you've read parrot fashion all the way through. Hope you're happy.
― chris (chris), Friday, 20 June 2003 07:50 (twenty years ago) link
I've provided 2, one of which is a culmination of various reports and studies (but that book is not available as an HTML document). I could provide more given more time, yet look what happens! I get called an asshole for providing any! The fact that cholesterol is linked to so many diseases alone is proof that meat eating is less healthy, so extensive meat-eating is much less healthy.
Yes eating meat exposes you to toxins that you would not otherwise expose yourself too if you didn't but you have failed to provide any evidence that the increased risks from these toxins exist let alone are significant (estrogens aside). You ahve made no mention of the fact that one would be exposed to a lot of these toxins in a similar way if you failed to wash your vegetables properly.
Ah, so I've failed to prove that toxins which last for decades and, in some cases, hundreds of years, accumulate and are therefore more concentrated in top-feeders? I've also failed to provide an HTML resource that proves these toxins are stored in fatty tissues, I guess. And I suppose I've failed to provide proof that organic vegetables are likely toxin-free, while organic meat is fed with sprayed grains and toxic fish. Well, give me some time and I'll have it for you, then.
All in all you have failed to provide a convincing well reasoned argument. It's very hard to respond properly when you are throwing unverified facts and figures about many of which hindewr rather than help your argument.
I will find sources for these issues for you then, as you seem to be interested. If you already know these things to be true, and this is a Jedi lesson in proper argumentation procedures, that's pretty dorky, but I'll take the bait.
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 07:58 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 08:04 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:05 (twenty years ago) link
― scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 08:05 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:06 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:07 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 08:10 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:10 (twenty years ago) link
If organic meat is fed with dprayed grains then it is not organic. I've never seen any evidence to suggest that this is the case.
that meat eating is less healthy, so extensive meat-eating is much less healthy.
cholesterol causes diseases yes but this is an argument for moderation not for abstinence, and an increase in omega-3 oils (which help to break down cholesterol) from walnuts oily fish, etc.
would you have a convincing argument with HTML documents lined up? Could you pull it out of your ass in 2 weekdays? Would you even realize you would be expected to at the start of it? I sure didn't think I would be hearing simultaneously,
I assumed that since you were so keen on this subject you would have a few references to back up your claims.
Keep in mind, if you were trying to prove, let's say, the opposite: that top-feeders were just as riddled with pesticides as your average salad, and that cholesterol was not linked to so many diseases
Again it does not follow that just because these toxins are present in meat we should stop eating meat, we shoul stop using the toxins to produce artifically cheap meat (and for that matter vegetables).
Cholesterol only becomes a major problem if you live a sendantry lifestyle. Exercise is much more important than diet in staying healthy. Moderation in everything.
― Ed (dali), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:13 (twenty years ago) link
* - "I am right, you are wrong" (it's a fact!)
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:15 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:20 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:22 (twenty years ago) link
Meanwhile, my opening argument was, "Do you have any idea how meat & dairy is produced? It is the root cause of most of western society's vast array of new sickness epidemics since WWII." That would be referring to nonorganic meat, obviously, for one thing. For another, in order to deal with the unnecessary cholesterol in your system, you need to limit the amount of meat you eat and exercise. Meanwhile, you can eat all the raw fruits and veggies you want all day long, with great big helpings of nuts and beans and you're never going to have dangerous levels of cholesterol. And you would have to eat A LOT to get fat on a diet like this. While you eat like this, you're also filling your body with fuel that actually makes you much less sedentary than a helping of meat, not to mention all the water, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and fiber you're getting.
Cultures can go entirely without meat, but you can't go entirely without fruits and vegetables for too long before you develop some serious deficiencies.
But, anyway, I'm in the process of searching for a few things for both you and Oops about different cultures and large groups of people who were on and off meat for different reasons and the correllation to numerous diseases and death rates... These events are actually what got people looking into vegetarianism... So, let me get back to that search.
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 08:32 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:35 (twenty years ago) link
Even if this is true, it's impossible to prove--no matter how many tables you paste for us.
― oops (Oops), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:38 (twenty years ago) link
This is crazy talk. You might as well say that the root cause of western society's vast array of new sickness epidemics since WWII is proseperity, progress, health care, or the fact that people are living longer. Just because two things correlate does not mean that they are dependant.
― Ed (dali), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 08:53 (twenty years ago) link
this is just the kind of wild claim that you need to provide strong evidence for.
― Ed (dali), Friday, 20 June 2003 08:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 12:04 (twenty years ago) link
Er..
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 June 2003 12:18 (twenty years ago) link
― NA. (Nick A.), Friday, 20 June 2003 12:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 12:26 (twenty years ago) link
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 12:31 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Friday, 20 June 2003 12:37 (twenty years ago) link
When I get a chance, I'll post some more stuff (stuff I've been looking for online for only a half-hour or so before I had to sleep, wake up and work).
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 14:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Sam (chirombo), Friday, 20 June 2003 14:21 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 June 2003 14:22 (twenty years ago) link
― NA. (Nick A.), Friday, 20 June 2003 14:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 June 2003 14:26 (twenty years ago) link
― NA. (Nick A.), Friday, 20 June 2003 14:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 June 2003 14:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 20 June 2003 15:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 June 2003 15:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 20 June 2003 15:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 June 2003 15:27 (twenty years ago) link
― NA. (Nick A.), Friday, 20 June 2003 15:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 June 2003 15:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Millar (Millar), Friday, 20 June 2003 19:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 19:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 20 June 2003 19:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 20 June 2003 19:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Millar (Millar), Friday, 20 June 2003 19:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Scaredy Cat, Friday, 20 June 2003 20:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:26 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 21 June 2003 08:23 (twenty years ago) link
― timmy tannin (pompous), Thursday, 12 October 2006 04:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 12 October 2006 04:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― am0n (am0n), Thursday, 12 October 2006 04:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― timmy tannin (pompous), Thursday, 12 October 2006 04:38 (seventeen years ago) link