frank kogan needs to know the diff between a pub and a bar

"let's call our pub the hackney!"
"why would that attract anyone? ppl who live here already know which pubs they want to go to, and ppl who don't are surely by defn not attracted to being in places with the name 'hackney' — or they WOULD live here"
"i know — the name isn't there to attract a clientele, bcz it's a pub and that's not what pub names do!!"
"aha i get it: the hackney it is"

bars usually have the obligatory australian/irish/student barman and they do not sell 4 pint carryouts.

- and don't get me started on giant fuckin jenga players..!

Have you invented a time machine? Can I come?

"wasn't this place called [xxx] last week?" = it is a bar

but then of course the grey area is way bigger than decided area, which is no good to frank bcz not a good guide to how we use the words deep into the grey area, as we clearly do

I was serious about my cider on draught thing. I don't think he can go far wrong with that criterion. Soon he will learn the difference at first sight. Go on, give me counterexamples to the cider rule that don't come from the disputed chain pub/bar area.

cider on draught is an interesting criterion bcz it clearly CAN'T be judged prior to arrival (ie it as an element of "content" rather than "packaging") => i deem it epiphenomenal but only by hunchwork

("content" vs "packaging" is hardly a cast-iron opposition of course, since the ppl attracted by the packaging of an establishment swiftly go on to make up its content)

In a bar, I can ask for a white Russian or some vodka/cranberry combo and get what I've asked for. In a pub, they will have to ask me how to make one or I will take one look around and see that there is no way it's gonna happen so choose something else (the amount of times I have had to tell some pub-ning how to build the perfect Bloody Mary...arrgh).

Also pub staff ask you if you want ice in your drink if it involves shorts and barstaff don't, it's part of the service.

AB1, S&L, P&P are all PUBS albeit 'feminised' pubs. I hate them ALL.

* Unless it's a whisky or brandy.

to me, pubs = where i buy pints (at least early in the evening - once drunk this can go out the window), bars = where i buy bottles of wine or cocktails. admittedly there are exceptions (although the only one springing to mind is the embassy bar, where i tend to buy pints but wd def say it is a bar).

Can anyone tell me why bar staff insist on putting a slice of lemon into every short I order with a coke or lemonade mixer? This is prevalent in both pubs and bars.

Still, generally, studenty bars excluded, bars have fewer pumps. They will *never* have more than four beers on tap, whereas a pub that didn't have at least six would be a poor pub indeed.

Like you say, though, if I see a lot of draught pumps I do think I'm in a pub. And generally speaking, Tavern Snacks are not available in bars.

As to the American = higher standards generally expected of bar staff, I disagree in my case as I have lived here for more than a decade. I remember when all I could drink from a pub was vodka and Britvic orange and going to buy cranberry juice for £4.50 in Fortnum's to give everyone in my flat sea breezes. Things have gotten much better here but there's no real tipping culture to bribe bartenders into making you a stiffer drink.

pubs and bars are both cool when they are doing what they are supposed to do. anything in the middle is ugh

like, early in the night, you want PUB. it should be local, it should have old people in, you should ddrink beer, the carpet should be stained and dirty. there should be geezers. there should be plenty seating room to spread out in. there should be no music.

assuming there is goign to be no club the bar comes later, the bar has got to be the complete opposite. there should be music, it should be dark and neon, hopefully there should be some sort of robot, electroclash airheads with asymetric fringes should be snorting coke in the toilets, juan maclean records should be playing, there must be beautiful people.

no inbetweens ok

they shouldnt be played, not in a bar, not anywhere

first pub
second bar
third club
end of night russian bar

Martin is also kind of right, though too didactic, about the building. As I said earlier, a pub cannot be tucked away upstairs or in the basement. It must dominate the ground floor of the building (inc. frontage). Though of course, many bars can also do this, and still not be pubs.

Irish pubs can be weird - the real ones in crappy little towns. They often don't fulfill the normal look of a pub from the outside, especially if they are in a modern building. That one where he gets beaten up in 'I Went Down', for example.

This points to the difference between U.S. usage and British. As brg30 says, it's a pub if it has "pub" in the title, otherwise not. The title is to connote "Britain," which is considered high-class but in a stolid way, so pubs are upscale in that they're clean and serve big burgers and designer beers, but they're glamourless. U.S. bars are carpetless to accommodate the spillage of blood and barf.

So, what's better, "pub rock" or "bar band"?

Roogalator vs. Blueshammer: FITE

A 'vibe' eh? Interesting. All Bar One is definitely ruled out then.

This is partly because it's not a "watch the football" pub, it just has a couple of screens which show (apparently) random sporting events. I really like it in there, haven't been in for ages.

Gabbneb are you calling some kind of FAP or did you decide not to?

(I'd be well up (?) for a FAP if persons wanted to go to the trouble, but don't really know my schedule yet. I think I'm going to be free on a sat night (the 25), and perhaps the tuesday or wednesday of that week, but need to hear back from a friend and make some decisions first. I may or may not be going to a quiz night on the Sunday. Don't know where and I'm guessing it's not music-related.)

Foundry remains stubbornly undesignatable for me - scuzzy - check, lots on draft - check, wouldn't order a white russian - check; yet the suspended bondage dolls and narrow demographic. I would just call it a "student pub" and be done with it except it's not right next to any school and everyone in there is about 30.

they fail to mention that its probably one of the cheapest bars in the area, which for me is a great incentive. for that i am uninterested in their opinions on this point.

i may also.....gotocamden

Where is this pub/bar exactly? ;-)