Roger Clemens - Classic Or Dud?

What a goddamned freak

http://www.hotbiscuits.com/images/hot_balls-grey.gif

I'm amazed he didn't throw splitered bats more often while he was afire

this explains everything

i wonder if the linament attracted sac flys

lol

Keith Law: (1:58 PM ET ) I've covered a lot of this, but it's worth pointing out that Clemens' career path isn't that of a PED user; he became a command/control guy in the 2000s, rather than returning to form as a power guy. Perhaps he used something that kept him healthy, but I've never quite understood why people get so outraged over that. If something keeps you healthy, or helps you recover more quickly, isn't that a Good Thing? What's next - banning cortisone? ibuprofen? ice?

Growing up, Bonds was this stud athlete who kicked ass everywhere. Clemens was the opposite—fat, schlumpy, unimpressive. Very, very mediocre. In Little League, he split starts with Kelly Krzan—a girl. And she had better stuff. Also, the lies. If you look at Clemens' life, he has lied about major things throughout: He's not from Texas, he's from Ohio. He wasn't drafted by the Twins, wasn't offered a football scholarship from Georgia, didn't have a basketball tryout with the Sonics. Those are just a few of the things he's said over the years—none true. And the list is endless. It's odd-—he has spent a lifetime writing a narrative that doesn't ring true.

http://itsaboutthemoney.blogspot.com/2009/03/iiatms-exclusive-20-questions-with-jeff.html

It has been more than 10 years since Roger Clemens played for Cito Gaston with the Blue Jays but Gaston's smoldering resentment is as strong as ever. In his book The Rocket That Fell To Earth: Roger Clemens, author Jeff Pearlman contends that Clemens, who won back-to-back Cy Young Awards as a Blue Jay in 1997 and 1998, played a role in Gaston's dismissal as manager in September 1997 after nine years and two World Series. It's an allegation that Gaston clearly agrees with. "Well, I wouldn't doubt that," Gaston said. "He's an a------ himself. A complete a------. I will say that out loud, right in his face. It's all about him. Nobody else but him. I wouldn't doubt that at all." On the issue of hiring Gaston's replacement, Pearlman says Clemens vetoed qualified men such as Davey Johnson, Paul Molitor, Willie Randolph and Larry Bowa. Instead, he backed the hiring of Tim Johnson, who was fired after one season for lying about his fictional military service record.

<3 cito.

I guess it makes sense that pathological wannabe-alpha male liars would want to surround themselves with other pathological wannabe-alpha male liars.

While Roger Clemens was busy dominating teams on the mound, the so-called Rocket apparently wasn't as dominant in the sack, says his former mistress, country superstar Mindy McCready, according to the New York Daily News.

Porn giant Vivid Entertainment is apparently set to release a tape on Monday that has an interview with McCready discussing her affair with Clemens in-depth. She confirms that the two met in 1991 when she was 15 and he was a married pitcher for the Boston Red Sox in his late 20s. They apparently watched a Walter Matthau movie and then showered together. Awww.

McCready goes on to say that Clemens suffered some erectile dysfunction issue when they were together, according to the paper, but was good in bed "when he could get it up."

stay classy, country superstar mindy mccready!

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just remembered a quote from Gaston re: Clemens from that story velko posted a sample from upthread:

He also challenged Gaston's authority in front of the team, once questioning the manager's refusal to pull Pat Hentgen from a game. Gaston says Clemens never brought those criticisms to his face, and he regrets not confronting him over it.

"He wouldn't (confront me). One of us would have had an ass whuppin' that day," Gaston said. "It might have been me, but he still would have known I was there."

classically indicted

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/08/19/clemens.indictment/?hpt=T1

sweet.

sweet? i mean, i agree with the reasons for indicting him (the state has a strong interest in reinforcing the importance of telling the truth under oath), but i feel badly for him, tbh.

why?

He's kind of a classic villain.

He's kind of a total douche.

he was a big deal to me as a kid, and a red-sox fan.

I like the ad that automatically appeared here

he was a big deal to me as a kid, and a red-sox fan.

Most Red Sox fans I know hate him more than practically any player I can think of.

I've strongly disliked him for 20 years, but given the huge corporate financial crimes that are going completely unpunished in America I have a hard time cheering on this kind of prosecution.

Most Red Sox fans I know hate him more than practically any player I can think of.

maybe you know younger red-sox fans, who more strongly associate him as a (a) Yankee and (b) traitor?

They think he's a traitor + all of the other shit that happened after that.

i don't know of a sox fan who doesn't hate him/view him as a traitor.

He would be an excellent addition to Lebron, Wade, and Bosh though.

In Toronto, it's just weird that his whole career now seems to pivot on the two years he spent here. Or am I wrong? Is it the general feeling that he used after he left the Jays too, or just while he was here?

i think it's believed he used (w/mcnamee at least) in '98-'01, which covers his last season in toronto and first three w/the yankees.

I sort of agree with Morbius above, but I don't think James would; I recall something in one of the Abstracts where he adamantly argued that part of being a fan is that you expect a higher standard of behaviour from these guys. Mind you, he wrote that 20+ years ago; I suppose by now that ship has long since sailed.

He would be an excellent addition to Lebron, Wade, and Bosh though.

if clemens will take a vet min contract, we'll sign him up

Clemens wasn't all that good (by his standards) from '99 - '01, really during his whole Yankee period. He was much better with Toronto and later on with Houston. If he was using only from '98-'01 then it's not reflected in the numbers (which isn't to say that it should be obvious from his numbers).

anyone who thinks that steroids are so effective that they boost players' numbers by a big enough amount to be separable from the usual year to year variance is pretty delusional imo

extensive but probably incomplete list of reason to not like Roger Clemens:

• if he wasn't pitching he wasn't with the team, the guy would rather be in his personal gym than support his teammates
• picking up the end of a broken bat and whipping it at Piazza was pretty lame
• claiming afterwards that he thought it was the ball was pathetic
• intentionally hitting guys that had hit him well was flat out cowardly - although i don't seem to recall "the rocket" doing this with the Astros when he actually had to man up to the plate himself
• he cheated on his wife several times
• possibly with a minor at one point
• and the steroids
• also the lying about it

xp even brady anderson?

• selfish and stupid enough to give all of his kids names starting with the letter "K", because he's a strikeout pitcher ya see

ah yes! i knew his poor daughter had some retarded name because of him.

• once punched a baby in the face – he later claimed the thought he was punching a nun

i think "the ball was juiced as much as the players" is a pretty reasonable argument for '97-'04 or whatever. you look at a dude like tony gwynn and what he did (relatively speaking) power-wise post-'96 and it's a jump. and i still remember this tv show i worked on where they ran a shitload of tests on a baseball from '98 and another one from a few years prior (maybe it was '88?) and the '98 ball was going on average about 10% farther. lots of factors probably played into the stats, though, and steroids was maybe part of it.

xp even brady anderson?

that's a huge fluke season, even if he was juicing. there's no logical way a player could suddenly gain 40-50HR power for a season and then lose it again just as quickly.

davey johnson had about as ridiculous a spike in 1973. it happens.

I thought his first obv selfish moment was getting tossed from an LCS game ('90, right?) vs A's, telling the home plate ump "I'm not shaking my fucking head at you."

The ball argument doesn't make sense to me because aren't they still using that ball? But power numbers are way down since testing was ramped up, or am I wrong?

they're not way down at all! they're down a little bit but still way up compared to the 80s and early 90s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MLB_HR_and_SB_rates.png

the little spike in 1987 is attributed to a juiced ball iirc, but other than that year we're still way above the rest of pre-steroid-era history

I guess I'm just looking at the HR leaderboards and wondering where the 50 homer guys are.

Also isn't this the year of the pitcher? ;-)

That graph doesn't include 2010:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/bat.shtml

This year is the lowest HR/G since 1993. Also lowest TB since '93.

Probably a bit fluky though.

CLEMENS RULES SNITCHES

http://natnotes.com/wp-content/uploads/opposition/roger_clemens_wife.jpg

-- acted like a dick to management and fans on the way out of Boston
-- acted like a dick to management and fans on the way out of Toronto
-- "retired" more times than Brett Favre, made a big drama out of it every time
-- used his "retirements" an excuse to switch teams, and to come back on his terms, on his schedule