Chicago: Totally hands-free!!!

I was kidding about the quitting part. I love it here. I really do. They are TOTALLY not jerks at all. Some of the best employers I have had ever.

Still, I hate asking for things.

What bothers me most I know how emails tend to get skimmed and forgotten, so I am probably going to have to pester them about this, which I really don't want to do.

The main thing I'm thinking they'll balk at is the Outlook calendar thing. Either balk or forget to do. Esp. the guy. He is a MESS.

xpost Maybe. That wouldn't change the shoddy production, though.

Tell them in words they'll understand: "This is about YOUR MONEY."

John is going to hate the next FF album (assuming it sounds the way I want it to sound).

:(

Maybe it will be the album to change your mind.

Or the exception to your rule.

Of course, we aren't "signed" though.

There's no "rule," it's just that some stuff (like Times New Viking, Husker Du, early Ponys, etc.) is hard for me to listen to because I want it to sound "better." By which I usually mean more polished -- not as sloppy and tinny and thin and distant.

Like, there are good songs in there, do 'em justice!

sometimes people like fuzzy shit

Also sometimes people don't have money for shiny studios but they put their stuff out anyway.

Pandora is feeding me Smiths and Jesus and Mary Chain

Of course sometimes they're just really hungover and the sound engineer is still passed out on someone's bathroom floor but they put their stuff out anyway. Y'know, shit happens.

(Although I agree a little bit w/you jaymc, on band specific instances. Like sometimes on some songs on Let It Bloom by the Black Lips, I wish it wasn't so fuzzy-ish.)

John, you can't listen to that lofi stuff quietly. I think you have to blast it from your speakers to get the right effect.

I will probably regret this post but ANYWAY....

Appreciation of lofi/punk music (to me) includes, but is not limited to:
* Enjoying the basic elements of a song without fleshing it out completely... There's a comfortable simplicity to it.
* Similarly, enjoying individual elements, like the kind of distortion used on the guitar, that you might not normally pay attention to or hear in a more produced album/ polished act.
* Believing that anyone can express their creativity in the music medium and come up with great ideas even if they can not play at a professional level that would push product
* A certain class angst, tied in with the above (ie: anyone can do this), combined with the feeling of unity it can bring among common people

john, what's your position on VU?

I don't think people should make stuff sound bad on purpose, but sometimes things that sound "bad" actually sound better. Like I think the Times New Viking songs sound way better the way they are then if they were recorded really clean.

Dan and Mr. Que both make good points, but it doesn't make it any easier for me to like this stuff. I certainly don't begrudge bands for doing their thing, since there are obv. plenty of people who don't have the hang-ups I do.

Like I think the Times New Viking songs sound way better the way they are then if they were recorded really clean.

yes yes.

I like "fuzzy" a whole lot more than "tinny" or "thin".

(way xxxx-post dammit)

Sometimes it's like a trick, like if you record something so that it distorts a little, it tricks you into thinking it's more rocking, like "Aw yeah they rocked it so hard the recording equipment couldn't handle it!"

I make good points too! me me me!

Also there's the element of if you DIY, even though it might not sound perfect, you have total control over everything and can take your time and try different things and not have to worry about shelling out thousands of dollars in the studio and looking at the clock the whole time and getting really aggravated because every time you mess up you have to pay more money. It's a tradeoff.

Sarah, you do! Nicely put.

Sometimes good production just isn't appropriate.

xxpotm

I like the Velvet Underground. I'm not sure how it relates.

Sarah, your point about (DIY/"anyone can do this"/bringing people together) is why I sometimes like bands like this when I see them live. There's an infectious amateurish energy. On my iPod, though, I'd rather just listen to Steely Dan. You might be right about blasting it from speakers, too. I don't have stereo speakers.

I like "fuzzy" a whole lot more than "tinny" or "thin".

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with "fuzzy." I mean, I like indie rock. My problem with a lot of this stuff is that it just sounds weak, like there's no bottom, I have nothing to grab onto.

jaymc all kinds of OTM on this one, that's what bothered me about that Times New Viking album.

Nick, your point about studio time is good, but it's becoming less relevant in a world where everyone can make awesome-sounding songs with cheap recording software on their computer. Not always as awesome as if it were professionally engineered in a studio, but better than a mic-in-the-middle-of-the-room set-up.

Times New Viking is an extreme example, I think. That's why I mentioned VU -- the production can range from DIY to pretty shitty, but who would want it any other way?

sometimes people want to make fuzzy shit instead of clean shit.

IHM

I like fuzzy shit! I mean, I'm a Pollard fanboy ferchrissakes. But Pollard also likes the rawk, so he drops in that low end.

Ok, so John can not chizill tonight. Anyone else up for dinner & a movie? Maybe we could eat somewhere up north and then go to the big Evanston theater?

everyone can make awesome-sounding songs with cheap recording software on their computer

I don't agree with this.

Also I think maybe TNV doesn't have a bass player, which may be part of the reason for the reason for a perceived 'tinny' sound.

Yeah, this is ultimately kind of a stupid argument, people have different tastes, blah blah blah. Despite listening mostly to indie rock from about 1996-2002, a lot of what I gravitated toward was glossy-sounding bands like Stereolab and Tortoise. Pavement and Sonic Youth were the two most traditional indie bands I liked, but in both cases I didn't like their early lo-fi stuff nearly as much as their later material. Maybe it's because of all of the Top 40 I loved as a kid, I dunno.

That's fine, and I realize that my production tastes are really different from those of most people.

Sometimes it's like a trick, like if you record something so that it distorts a little, it tricks you into thinking it's more rocking

This is OTM. Like on all those old soul records where the vocals distort when the singer screams or does something really loud, and it's the best thing ever. This is also why some lo-fi bootlegs and radio rips I have of brass bands sound like the most intense thing ever, but you can't exactly put that out as a proper record.

I am probably going to a bar tonight sort of with Courtney I think. It's weird. I guess I could invite other people since it's a bar. It's sort of like a date....it's this guy's pre-vacation-fest at a bar and I'm sort of invited. Anyway, if that falls through, I would really like to join you fuckers in Evan's town.

hey photoshop/indesign pros: don't either of these programs have any stock things you can import as pictures? i'm specifically looking for some kind of border-y thing . . . thanks dudes!

people have different tastes, blah blah blah

Kels -- Adobe has a stock library, but it's not free. I use iStock more than anything. Also not free.

I don't know what point you're trying to make by italicizing that, Laurel, I've always believed in that! I'm a big subjectivist -- I dislike the pretense of objectivity that a lot of criticism falls into and sometimes find it hard to write music reviews without qualifiers like "for me" and "I think." But that doesn't mean it's not fun to argue and grandstand for your POV once in a while.

I guess to me the only really bad kind of production is the kind you hear on demos that bands recorded at some local small studio and/or on ProTools, and the sounds are all clean and audible but not very interesting and the hi-hat sounds really bright and the snare sounds really flat and the bass sound is like WHUMWHUMWHUM and since they are a democracy all the instruments are mixed equally except somehow the vocals seem too loud and when the album comes on your iPod it sounds a little quieter than everything else.

(well, it's not the only bad kind of production but it's the only broad category of bad production I can think of)

is it bad to be applying to jobs on monster.com while on a temp job?

i don't have much to contribute to the music discussion, except that i suspect my taste is closer to jaymc's than everyone elses. i like pop, i like shiny, glossy pop. one of my favorite things about london was that it was ok to like pop there, whereas here it seems incredibly uncool.

xp

John, you don't seem to realize it, but the way you state your opinions makes them sound like more than just personal opinions. There is no unspoken but understood "I think" or "For me" there.

Oh I totally know what you're talking about, Nick. Actually the song "Fury" off of Prince's 3121 sounds exactly like this and it really bothers me, because he should know better.