the totally insane true story behind the 1970s film and book Sybil

there's weird and then there's 'sexual lure for children'

yeah, I guess I am not jaded enough or too jaded to think anyone would use such an obvious symbol that way

Loony Toons tattoos were very popular amongst frat boys and rednecks in the early to mid 90s.

Funny you should mention that -- Satan's Silence makes a big deal out of the class differences in one of the cases, I forget which atm. All of the accused parents were working class and the judge even went through one woman's diary and mocked her sexual habits, which she documented for some bizarre reason and were apparently perfectly normal. At least normal compared to the poop-eating and baby sacrificing she was accused of.

Whoa. That is serious judicial misconduct IMO.

i'm reading "helter skelter" now. it's way less salacious than i expected; since it's "by" the DA who tried the case against manson and the family, a lot of it is about preparing the case and the trial process, but it's really interesting.

Helter Skelter is a book where it matters a lot whether you're reading the early editions or the post-lawsuit editions iirc?

I've never read it. How do we know whether the version we're reading is pre or post?

Satan's Silence is not quite at Sybil levels of cultural clusterfuck, but it's definitely up there in the top five books that have made me lol at the gym. Have yet to really dig into Michelle Remembers with any serious intent, gotta wait til the election is over before my brain has any more space to offer to ott bananas stuff like that.

So far the theme I find most interesting is the purported class war/paranoia that seemed to be among the many things rumbling underneath the SRA lawsuits.

Yeah I am still basking in the ontological afterglow of Sybil Exposed, gonna wait to start Satan's Silence til I've read some genre hijinks. But I already have Satan's on my Nook. Debbie Nathan roxxorz.

xpost

I sat next to a girl on the bus who was reading Sybil Exposed and she said she didn't much like it. was I right in ignoring her for the rest of the trip?

also since you posted abt 'naugus hole' that phrase has been popping into my head unwantedly quite often!

xpost I would have started a convo in that situ. I wonder what she disliked.

So far the theme I find most interesting is the purported class war/paranoia that seemed to be among the many things rumbling underneath the SRA lawsuits.

I think this was definitely the case with those dudes in Arkansas, the "West Memphis 3."

for real wtf @ 'naugus hole'

i've been scared to google it

I haven't read the book myself! but iirc she didn't like all the typos.

also ping pong i might have asked her too and if she had a shitty answer (that is to say that her answer is boring), ignore.

xp - typo pedant: ignore

though it's true that in satan's silence on my kindle i am often finding myself reading about child pomography.

that does not stop me from enjoying it since it is a typographical error!

maybe naugus hole is a typo?

ok so a bit of googling later-- it is not Helter Skelter that had material redacted after a lawsuit, but Ed Sanders' manson book, The Family.

I remember being a bit turned off by Helter Skelter because of the way Bugliosi saw himself as this Elliot Ness type crimebusting culture-war hero. Which isn't to say I didn't read it like 5 times in high school - it was my go-to when all the good books were checked out. But I haven't read Helter Skelter for a LONG time. Maybe I should revisit.

xpost hmmm an OCR error perhaps...?

None of the usual OCR errors make it make sense though. Riaugus Hole?

Yeah sounds like Bugliosi attributed hundreds of deaths to manson & co which sounds a bit credulous.

nah he doesn't go that far (I read it a few months ago)

Bugliosi (like Sanders) had to remove some libelous stuff about the Process Church from later editions iirc

I remember thinking at the time that the Bugliosi version just seemed very skewed and I wasn't getting the right kind of picture of what happened/how it happened so my logic was, 'maybe I'll get the real story from Manson's bio' (that In His Own words thing where he was interviewed in prison) - lol could I have been more wrong? O_o

there's a middle path but I don't remember ever finding a good even-handed account of everything that went down. maybe the Stanley is the way to go? I haven't looked into the whole Manson arena for so long.

Moderation in all things, including Mansonology

bugliosi definitely has OPINIONS but they mainly seem to be about the judge and other lawyers, i feel like he's pretty charitable towards everyone else (even manson) but i'm not done with the book yet

hmm okay now I want to reread

yeah I don't think he's a scaremongering anti-hippie/pro-establishment type in the book at all

he's pretty critical of LAPD too

yeah he is absolutely brutal towards some of the detectives/police for losing evidence, not following up leads etc.

Anyone have an opinion on The Garbage People by John Gilmore? I bought this at a garage sale many years ago but haven't read it. Reading amazon I see it was re-released as Manson: the unholy trail of... and gets mostly negative reviews.

I still haven't read that one yet. I do like The Shadow Over Santa Susana by Adam Gorightly which is probably the first book I'd hand to someone if they weren't familiar with all the details about the case, The Family, the occult symbology they lifted from, and the whole weird environment around LA in 1969. Worth checking out.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q1r6WUp0yrU/The5ttCOusI/AAAAAAAAAZI/mDemGu_-Oew/s1600/005.JPG

The late '80s were the golden age of Satanic panic, and it would not be an exaggeration to say that the woman known as Lauren Stratford launched that panic to a whole new level.

I guess above link is part of a series on related stuffs: http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.ca/2012/06/prodigal-witch.html

Susan Atkins' husband (a friend of mine) just self-published her memoirs, which are available on Amazon. I have only read brief excerpts, but I believe her version of stuff more than others'.

Update from Satan's Silence:

Just read an entire chapter about the unusual nature of hymens, a short but detailed historical look at the implications of anal winking, and stories of children whose parents agreed to let their genitals be photographed for Medicine and what those photos were used for.

anal winking? I feel like DJP should know about this.

wait everyone doesn't know what that is? by the time i got done reading this chapter, it was like well yeah, anal winking. it was no big deal.

oh god this thread is an out-of-context gold mine

I do not know what it is.

ok do not read this if you are sensitive about anatomy:

it's just a physical reaction -- when you poke someone's anus with a qtip, it will react. the degree to which it reacts was used to determine a variety of things historically, including whether or not the poked person has engaged in sodomy or was abused sexually. unfortunately, it's just a frequently occurring physical reaction to having a qtip poking your anus -- not a taboo thing, just like a reflex. it just sounds funny, like the glory hole in glassblowing.

at least that is what i learned from reading this chapter. i am not an expert in this field nor am i medical professional. i am writing a book report.

That's so bizarre. Whose butthole wouldn't wink if you poked it?

I'm going to punch you in the mouth and if you wince, it means you love sucking dick.

basically
also imagine that you are a 2-4 year old

:(

wait, a reaction was seen as an indicator of weird things happening, not vice-versa?

this is serious "if it floats it's a witch" territory

correct
it is exactly that

the more you deny it, the more they think it's true

i searched my school's academic databases looking for some of the articles referenced as the scientific foundation of the SRA panic, but i didn't search very hard. i found a few things but not exactly what i was looking for. anyway, there was a huge movement to institutionalize/basically codify the research so that the court cases could proceed.

i'll also repeat -- there were obvious class issues at play here as well. also, this was the USA in the mid-late 1980s.

i mean.