libertarians vs republicans

i mean its kinda like saying im not a regular at this bar i just come here all the time

What about if you're also a regular at another bar? The regulars at bar A who don't tray that much are Democrats, the people who are regulars but also regulars elsewhere are not quite the same.

for instance, how about all the hard left voters who reconcile themselves to voting for the democrat every four years bc of 'lesser than two evils' argument but spend the next four years protesting that candidate? arguably this is the most common archetype to ILX and yet you'd claim that all those voters are actually democrats in denial?

― Mordy, Wednesday, October 3, 2012 2:14 PM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they are part of the democratic coalition, the nature of any coalition is all the different groups that make it up are unhappy, there is no group thats ever super psyched abt everything that their party leadership does, how you vote defines which coalition youre a member of, voting is the be all end all of electoral politics

i'm helping a buddy run a political campaign and am going to check and see if this expensive voter database even has an option for libertarian.

I voted for Paul in '88 but have been solidly Dem since. Still prefer neoliberal economics to wealth distribution from young to old via entitlement, but my hot button issue is climate change (the only current issue that will matter to our grandchildren).

I would much prefer spending time in a locked room with a libertarian, who are at least motivated by principle. The average grassroots Republican is motivated by faith, which I hope becomes synonymous with credulity and stupidity before the Collapse.

The average grassroots Republican is motivated by victimhood.

the libertarian would work with you to break out of the room so as to overcome the tyranny of being locked up against their will

i dunno man, libertarians seem pretty faith-y about their magical sea tax-paradise.

as far as ideology on the axis of society/individual that goes so far to define the progressive/conservative split in america libertarians are squarely right, they are in many ways the furthest right of any republican interest group, believing totally in the primacy of the individual and basically refusing to admit that humans are social creatures at all, they may trend left on some issues but they are fundamentally the most purely republican of all americans

roger sterling vs bert cooper

socked feet vs shoes

mind you liberalism is represented by pete campbell there so...

lagoon, I beg to differ. In a spectrum from liberal to authoritarian, libertarians are the most liberal, whereas most Democrats and Republicans are combinations of liberal and authoritarian, just iwth different priorities; Republicans tending to be socially authoritarian and economically liberal and Democrats tending to be economically more authoritarian but more socially liberal.

and peggy and joan and and and

xp

Persuade a libertarian of the issue of the tragedy of the commons, even via a property rights argument, and you might achieve concessions on environmental regulation.

Persuading a faith-based Republican on anything is a bit of a fool's errand. They've spend too much of their emotional energy on self-deception.

^spent, not spend.

you kinda switched out the axes there michael, but anyway to be completely frank here calling libertarians liberal on the authoritarian scale is quite ridiculous, sure they believe v strongly in their right to not be oppressed but v much believe in their right to oppress others and of course are completely against things like civil right legislation which is purely designed to protect others from oppression

of course the libertarian/authoritarian binary is their fav frame and imho is flawed

peggy sure - catholic, leftie boyfriend, would have to put her third behind campbell and kinsey for mad men representative lib. never seen anything from joan that would rule out her being a rockefeller republican.

yup, a lot of right-libertarians believe that some forms of domination and social hierarchy are natural and good, and it is "equality", speciously defined by the left and enforced by the state, that is evil. ie if we were truly free everyone would have to be ordered and obedient to their natural betters in the private sphere or die

joan liked "the apartment"

By the way, I think using the word "liberal" in this thread isn't terribly productive. In the non-American English speaking world it means laissez faire advocates. There's a reason the American Left has preferred the term "progressive".

not sure how i feel abt the mad menifacation of this v important thread but isnt kinsey the token shop librul, dont see how anyone else compares

but he's a psychotic, not a depressive!

Persuade a libertarian of the issue of the tragedy of the commons, even via a property rights argument, and you might achieve concessions on environmental regulation.

Nah, they'll spend all their time convincing you that the problem is that there's a commons at all; and if we'd just let someone own the oceans and the sky, it would be in their interest to keep their property clean.

i never understood neal peart's "bleeding heart libertarianism" does someone know what it's aboot?

there is a blog by that name that isn't bad

its when yr heart is bleeding and no one tries to save you so you die

nah, in a libertarian paradise mcdonalds would offer promotionals for helping people out. save a life, get a book of coupons, with two soft-serve sundae ones at the end. could be worse.

you could always buy another heart, trading very weakly against the bitcoin on today's open

libertarians are a type of republican
― lag∞n

Right, that's why there's a Libertarian Party that has their own convention and own primaries and are running their own candidates...

who no one ever votes for

i mean theres a green party too

http://www.conservapedia.com/Liberals_and_friendship

There's a Socialist candidate on the Ohio ballot. I bet he gets a lot of votes, since there are people that are socialists.

i wonder what the democrats think of the idea that the green party is really 'theirs' and they're really just trying to get democrats elected

its not the party thats theirs it the voters whos views align w/the green party who none the less vote democrat

is there a green party version of the koch bros?

or paul ryan or rand paul for that matter?

the koch brothers there is really just no explanation for people calling them libertarians, they are straight up big business republicans who give money to republicans in order to further their big business agenda

i mean one of them was a delegate at the republican convention this year!

well they're also the big money behind the cato institute and self identify as libertarians.

libertarianism is kind of like being a liberal without having to give a shit about anyone poorer than you

Speaking of the Kochs, their latest stunt is definitely enticing the stupids to vote:

Americans for Prosperity (AFP), the nonprofit financed by David Koch and other wealthy Republican businessmen, has spent some $31 million on anti-Obama ads since April. The group recently opened 98 Get-Out-the-Vote offices, hired some 200 field staffers and has been distributing its state-of-the-art voter-targeting technology on Samsung tablet computers to its volunteers. Now AFP is hoping to win hearts and minds with gifts of free gas.

AFP is hosting events at gas stations across the country to provide gasoline to motorists for the price of $1.84 per gallon. The group is paying for up to fifteen gallons for 100–150 drivers at each station, telling them that the $1.84 price symbolizes the price per a gallon before Obama took office in 2009.

A CBS news affiliate in Iowa reports that at least one driver, Louis Lumpkin, said that the free gas would make a difference on his vote for president.

AFP is spending about $4,000 giving away gas at every stop, and has been to stations throughout Nevada, Iowa and Michigan. Along the way, they’re earning free, largely uncritical airtime for their message and maybe some votes in swing states.

the koch brothers are libertarian in the sense that they dont think anyone should be able to stop their company from poisoning the air and water

OK so here are the #s from the database

     678   LIB
    1028   PF 
    2975   AI 
    3664   NPP
    3745   GRN
   13543   REP
   37221   NP 
  128064   DEM

Unfortunately there isn't a key to what these are, but I'm assuming LIB = libertarian and AI = sentient robots, so suck it libertarians you are outnumbered by robots!

they are libertarian in that they prob don't care about jesus

Koch also said he now considers himself a Republican first and foremost – rather than a Libertarian or a non-partisan supporter of free enterprise – despite a background in Libertarian politics and some views that are out of step with the GOP orthodoxy.

“The Libertarian Party is a great concept. I love the ideals, but it got too far off the deep end, and so I dropped out,” Koch said. “I think the Republican Party has a great chance of being successful and that’s why I support it,” he said, adding “but I believe in the libertarian principles.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/80483.html

There's no Green Party or left-leaning Koch Bros(aside from a few exceptions) b/c we progressive types tend to see their views as obvious and natural and not needing to be actively promoted or reinforced. Also that only accurate information and facts need to be presented to be people, and every GOP vote is out of duping or being lied to

Or the idea that just being correct will automatically and immediately convince and persuade others, that kinda thing.

remember when the libertarians tried to impeach clinton?