ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

Traditionally, it is 'Where is it going?' - whither = to where, whence = from where. Whence came you? Whither go you?

Obvs these forms are obsolete/archaic outside certain expressions.

whither/whence, thither/thence, hither/hence form a nice set, I think. We should've kept them.

But then I am a fetishist for "thon" and "thonder", which are the northern/Scottish equivalents of "yon" and "yonder" and still get used in Scotland (I assume) and Northern Ireland.

And "whither" does mean "to where (is it going)?" but rhetorically does have that "où sont les ___s d'antan?" vibe to it.

(whoa I did not know that "yesteryear" was coined specifically to translate that, thought it was much older: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=yesteryear )

woof otm. Whence and whither are companions to when, why, where, how, and their ilk, but they have fallen into desuetude.

Is there a difference between "befitting" and "befitting of"? Is the latter formulation wrong?

The sentence I wrote was something like "a premise befitting of contemporary horror cinema," but the copy dept. took out the "of." It not only looks weird to me, but I feel like it changes the meaning -- I'm talking about a film that ultimately does not fit within contemporary horror cinema despite a premise that makes it seem like it would.

I guess I could just change it to "evocative of." Originally I had just plain "out of," but my editor advised against it.

Copy dept otm.

In the sense that "befitting of" is always incorrect? And does my intended meaning still work? I've been staring too long at this.

I think befitting of is an incorrect formulation but I can't prove that with science I mean grammar.

Although it does have a lot of google hits so what do I know.

"befitting of" is to "befitting" as "irregardless" is to "regardless"

Ouch, man.

this will only just sting a little (he jabs jaymc with 8 inch hatpin)

Actually, you know what *doesn't* sound weird is "a premise befitting A WORK OF contemporary horror cinema." Huh.

yeah. that works fine.

befitting is such a weird word

why wouldn't you say an appropriate premise or suitable premise?

98% of the be- prefixed verb constructions sound weird these days. The only ones that don't are fossilized inside common phrases.

yeah that's what I mean! it sounds too fancy

Actually, I'm changing it to "evocative of."

why wouldn't you say an appropriate premise or suitable premise?

B/c it's not what I mean.

unbeknownst to us, jaymc changed his mind

befitting, appropriate and suitable are all synonyms

98% of the be- prefixed verb constructions sound weird these days. The only ones that don't are fossilized inside common phrases.

― Aimless, Friday, October 5, 2012 8:54 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i miss befriend now friend is a verb

lots of be- verbs in german

Susan Beanthony.

Why do both "drugs servies" and "drug services" sound OK when "drug debate" sounds so wrong?

"drugs servies services"

"drug debate" induces ear wobble?

re: befitting, it's simple. it's a transitive verb and needs a direct object. a better analogy might be advocate vs advocate for

befitting is an adjective

it's also an adjective which is confusing

xp

not so simple then, i suppose

anyway jaymc's example should be the verb so no "of"

just don't say 'smacks of'

but befriend is something v different than 'friend'? one does not 'friend' people other than on the internet.

perhaps part of the befitting/*befitting of confusion is that there is a synonym that does take the 'of': "a premise worthy of contemporary horror cinema"

uhh xposts

i mean, that's a synonym if jaymc is going for what i think he is: 'this romcom has a premise more befitting horror tbh'

Should it be "The imprisonment of myself and a friend" or "The imprisonment of me and a friend"?

(I am always inclined to change "myself" to "me" when it's the object, rather than whatever the part of speech it is when you say things like "I did it myself", but I'm never sure if that's right in all cases)

"the imprisonment of a friend and me" sounds a little better, but I'd prefer a construction in which "A friend and I" were the subjects.

Unless you were both the jailer and the prisoner (maybe you locked yourself in somehow?), 'myself' doesn't sound right there.

My and my friend's imprisonment?

Myself is almost always used wrongly.

is there a previous sentence you could get "my friend" into, leaving this one clear for just "our imprisonment"?

as I understand it, "myself" is to be used as a reflexive object ("I jailed myself") or when using yourself as an example of a wider group ("They jailed thousands of sexual dynamos such as myself")

I would go with "the imprisonment of a friend and me" if you have to use this type of construction; I don't think "myself" is the correct word there and IIRC you should always put yourself last in a list of people for some arcane reason.

Agree with deprecation of the myself version, but for purely stylistic reasons, I prefer "me and a friend."

unnecessary use of myself is something british policemen do, e.g. "on seeing me, the suspect approached myself"

One more vote for "me and a friend" in favor of "myself and a friend".

What you may be trying to avoid is a perceived informality in "me and a friend" that gives it an overly chatty feeling that doesn't sit well when speaking of imprisonment. If so, the answer is not substituting "myself" for "me", but finding a more formal locution. Others have suggested several approaches you could use. Pick one that appeals to you.

unnecessary use of myself is something british policemen do, e.g. "on seeing me, the suspect approached myself"

no no no, they all use this particular tense that someone cleverer than me can tell me the name of - it's quite odd. "The suspect has approached me, then he's crouched down on the floor. He's struck his girlfriend" etc etc.

that's the present perfect, which does other jobs but, yeah, is used for narration in some odd contexts - footballers explaining what's happening while watching a replay is a trad example.

ah! I was gonna go for present perfect

yeah they do that too, but they do like to start sentences with "on" + gerund, and they LOVE "myself".

fuck the police.