Indefinite Detention? But I Have Soccer Practice at 4: U.S. Politics 2012

Running for office these days pretty much is selling out.

no it isn't

lol yes it is, people of principle with differing opinions can at least agree that if you run for office you're a sellout, c'mon now man

I was being glib. But if you're a progressive sort, working in the private sector for some progressive cause, you're going to have to compromise significantly once you get elected. And even the stuff you don't compromise on you won't get through the DC morass. And really, what prominent politician aside from Carter has left office to go onto something other than a corporate think tank or lobbying firm or something like that?

Like, you can mean well, but public office undercuts idealism/independence like nobody's business.

where'd you read that

there are hundreds of thousands of people who have run for office without ever having to make a compromise on a single thing they believe in

Name one.

well it's hard, cause they never win

my view has nothing to do w/ those truisms but the conviction that the Donkey Party is 100% DEAD as a vehicle for meaningful change.

xxxxp

i think there's a difference between "the current system has made it very difficult to get elected if you're a principled person" and "being elected invariably involves becoming a corrupt pol."

Who said anything about corruption?

why would you believe that any political party could be capable of producing meaningful change in america? xp

it's hard to name examples without getting into a debate over specific ppl, but morbs mentioned feingold -- fine example.

I should be clear - this isn't a recent development, that being elected and becoming compromised are inseparably linked - plenty of Roman poetry on this very subject, and Greek plays before them, it's in the nature of the process. Still worth complaining about

why would you believe that any political party could be capable of producing meaningful change in america?

because JESUS CHRIST IATEE, they have before.

oh my god fucking ilx politics compulsiveness. stop arguing w/ morbz about shit he will never change his mind he just likes to argue on the internet.

I was joking about naming names. And I do think you can remain a principled person in office, but I sometimes doubt the efficacy of the position. Working in a soup kitchen, feeding people vs. trying to get Federal laws passed to benefit those in soup kitchens. Obviously things often work out for the best, but it doesn't always seem the most efficient means of producing results/change that I believe in.

this is a stupid binary

For sure! Life is a perpetual compromise.

Not that Morbs would ever admit that time he sat through "Vertigo" in pan and scan.

'meaningful change' meaning some large scale, drastic social progress completely due to party politics has - at most - happened a handful of times in american history. and even then you can't isolate it from the social dynamics of the eras, which don't exist today. the overwhelming majority of positive changes have been hard earned incremental gains.

look at Pericles

Pericles was a sell out.

Running for office these days pretty much is selling out.

If, by "selling out" you mean recognizing that you must select a variety of compromise positions for which you will contribute your one vote, out of the MANY votes that will be required for ANY position to become law, then yeah, you're right.

Just becoming a representative or a senator means joining a big group of disparate people with conflicting ideas, who have to figure out a way of agreeing on what to do. That's the system. You have to accept that on the way in, or you're cooked before you even arrive.

politicians are the ppl who actually pass laws and get things done. change doesn't happen if you give up on electoral politics.

Well, yes and no. It is a representative democracy, with voters and constituents. People who pass laws generally aren't doing so without specific pushes and nudges at the ground level. The question is which is more effective: the people doing to pushing, or the people doing the actual voting at their behest.

doing the pushing, sorry.

speaking of "working in the private sector for some progressive cause" - here's what good nebbocrat evan bayh has been up to!

http://pac.progressivesunited.org/blog/caught-in-the-revolving-door

Fightin' the good fight.

oh my god fucking ilx politics compulsiveness. stop arguing w/ morbz about shit he will never change his mind he just likes to argue on the internet.

He doesn't argue

Big Bird vs Pakistanis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yMOzvmgVhc&feature=youtu.be

yesterday bradley manning was 900 days in detention. today the afghan war enters its 12th year.

This weekend is the fourteenth anniversary of my not getting Columbus Day off.

wait it's columbus day?

totally office politics

i propose that we postpone the war on christmas and focus our attention on g-d columbus day, arguably the stupidest of american holidays

Most insulting, maybe. We've got a lot of stupid holidays.

Symmetry requires it!

probably the main obstacle to getting rid of columbus day is federal employee contracts

you'd have to get congress to agree on a new holiday probably

it's the stupidest because it's so thoughtlessly offensive---nat'l accounting day is pretty fucking dumb but at least it doesn't celebrate genocidal conquest

nb i did not know that accounting day existed, i just thought "wouldn't it be moronic for there to be a day for accountants" and lo google provided

apologies to the accountants of ilx of course

at'l accounting day is pretty fucking dumb but at least it doesn't celebrate genocidal conquest

depends on how we define "accounting"

Accounting Day®

the airing of grievances

Thanksgiving is a little more offensive, i think.

At least Columbus day comes right out and says "Yeah imperialism!", Thanksgiving is based pretty much on the goodwill of the people we destroyed.

well yeah but I like pumpkin wine and drinking my family's liquor

haha pumpkin PIE but yeah whatever that too