Hilary Duff: Joy for pre-teens, not just Humbert Humbert

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so why doesn't it rub you the wrong way when it's the other way round, which is far far more common, esp on ilm?

Who says it doesn't? I can't fucking stand Bob Dylan.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:52 (sixteen years ago) link

but fans of minor sports are fans of the sport, and rep for the sport itself

haha when i'm talking to other tennis fans i'll rip into eg serena williams for all the cunty things she's done over the years but the moment i talk to a non-tennis fan i'll be like SERENA IS GREAT, she may be a cunt but she's OUR cunt

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:52 (sixteen years ago) link

(And if I wanted to distance myself from the Arcade Fire, why would I choose to listen to a buncha kids' music??? Maybe AF was my gateway drug!)

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:53 (sixteen years ago) link

re lex: DINGDINGDING

― 696, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:53 (sixteen years ago) link

Who says it doesn't? I can't fucking stand Bob Dylan.

well it may do but for some reason there are no 300-answer threads questioning the legitimacy of bob dylan threads!

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:54 (sixteen years ago) link

yes there are

― deej, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:56 (sixteen years ago) link

I said upthread that Bob Dylan AND The Beatles AND The Stones were better than Aly and AJ, Lex. I meant it, too. Sorry.

xpost Lex this is untrue! There are at least two or three "Hey wow that Bob Dylan doesn't his voice suck I think he's OVERRATED" threads.

― Groke, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:56 (sixteen years ago) link

why is this "controversial"? or why would you think someone was being controversial just by saying it. lots of things are better than t.v. on the radio.

Because Hilary Duff and TV on the Radio have nothing to do with each other except for the fact that one is teenpop and is generally maligned, and the other is indie rock and was #1 on the Idolator poll last year. There's no reason to ever compare the two, especially in such simple language (i.e., X is better than Y) except to make a point that bears little relation to the music itself and has more to do with the broader implications of the statement (i.e., "there's some teenpop that's better than some indie rock" -- well, no shit). I'd love to hear an argument of how Hilary Duff is actually better than TV on the Radio, though, that actually engages with what TV on the Radio sounds like and why whatever they're doing doesn't work as strongly or effectively as Hilary Duff.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:57 (sixteen years ago) link

What do TV on the Radio sound like, incidentally?

― Groke, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:58 (sixteen years ago) link

But those threads are about Bob Dylan, not about the people who post about Bob Dylan.

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:58 (sixteen years ago) link

"but there is an element of "blah, indie rock!" beyond the Lex complaining about boys with guitars."

"blah, indie rock!" is a perfectly valid reason to listen to stuff that isn't indie rock!

― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:58 (sixteen years ago) link

someone brought up t.v. on the radio. i can't remember who. i think that's the only reason a comparison was made.

― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:59 (sixteen years ago) link

but they aren't questioning the right of bob dylan boosters to exist - there's a diff between "this lindsay lohan song sucks" and "i find the very existence of a teenpop thread to be creepy and unbearable"

i've never heard aly & aj but i do think that any given song off the paris hilton album, maybe including the dodgy rod stewart cover, pisses all over everything i've ever heard by bob dylan/rolling stones/beatles

^^^the kind of thing which will get called "wilful contrarianism" or "annoying tired canon-upheaval" when it's actually just something i genuinely think

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:00 (sixteen years ago) link

Play six degrees of separation here, jaymc...do the Killers have anything to do with TV on the Radio? At least in a way that Hilary Duff doesn't? So then how could "Beat of My Heart," which is better than any Killers song I've ever heard (before their last album), not have anything to do with TV on the Radio? Or would you make an argument that the Killers have as much "less to do with" TV on the Radio as Hilary Duff?

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:00 (sixteen years ago) link

what would a thread about the people posting about bob dylan involve, i wonder.

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:00 (sixteen years ago) link

(Also, what scott said...I was responding directly to the comparison that was made on this thread)

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:01 (sixteen years ago) link

the right of bob dylan boosters to exist

No one questioned the right of anyone to exist!

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:02 (sixteen years ago) link

What do TV on the Radio sound like, incidentally?

i only ever heard the first album but from what i recall the answer is "an unlistenable mess, all things thrown into the mix at the excat same pitch with little to no regard for how they sound together; a singer who sounds like he's being tortured; like muse but without any of the tunes"

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:02 (sixteen years ago) link

"blah, indie rock!" is a perfectly valid reason to listen to stuff that isn't indie rock!

Of course it is! But it's not a very good criticism.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:02 (sixteen years ago) link

*meaning Hilary sounded like pre-Sam's Town Killers. I didn't actually like Sam's Town very much.

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:02 (sixteen years ago) link

weird no one's admitting this is all contextual to ilm.

― Eppy, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:02 (sixteen years ago) link

maybe that goes without saying.

― Eppy, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:03 (sixteen years ago) link

i think the non-teenpop people are the defensive ones. they are suspicious and don't like to be tricked! chuck eddy made them buy a big & rich album once and they have never gotten over it!

― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:03 (sixteen years ago) link

I was sort of hoping a TV on the Radio fan would answer that Lex!

― Groke, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:03 (sixteen years ago) link

And, again, people on the teenpop thread don't WRITE things like "TV on the Radio is way worse than Hilary Duff"! I wrote it here because I'm all agitated by this thread (and specifically by you bringing up the AF review, which was kind of annoying AND misrepresented what I actually wrote about that -- off-topic -- subject, no offense) and bored at work.

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:04 (sixteen years ago) link

tom they sound like ar kane X american indie rock essentially

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:05 (sixteen years ago) link

hilary duff is better than nas

― Eppy, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:05 (sixteen years ago) link

feedback melodies + looped mechnical drums (though more live drums on the newer stuff) + falsetto singing

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:05 (sixteen years ago) link

scott, that's reducing things, no? it's not at all about "i heard this ashlee simpson song and i just don't understand WHYYYYYY?"

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:06 (sixteen years ago) link

i just thought people had gotten beyond the whole "you REALLY like that, seriously??? why???" attitude that normal people have. especially on ilm where frothy pop has never been a four letter word. but there seem to be many reasons why people have a problem with that thread.

― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:09 (sixteen years ago) link

If Hilary sounds anything like the first Killers album (which had three pretty amazing singles), I'd love to hear more of her stuff.

Dave, I don't doubt that Hilary Duff and TV on the Radio may have certain things in common (I mean, they're both essentially making pop/rock music), but I hope you'll agree that that point is not obvious (if it were more obvious, I would think that their demographics would overlap more), and since that's the case, the statement "Hilary is better than TVOTR" on its own, without further explanation, seems intentionally provocative.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:10 (sixteen years ago) link

Jay is the statement "TVOTR is better than Hilary Duff" also intentionally provocative? Obviously on ILM it is!

― Groke, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:11 (sixteen years ago) link

well, i mean, honestly, have you yourself gotten over it? why WOULD someone get over it? (or is it just a question of not vocalizing it out of a sense of decorum?) seems like a natural process of trying to understand other people.

2xp

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:11 (sixteen years ago) link

(And also DM, I apologize for bringing up the Arcade Fire review. It's possible I'm completely misremembering, because what I recall is a paragraph-long post where you said "Ick, this is dull, why did I ever like them? All right, moving on...")

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:12 (sixteen years ago) link

If Hilary sounds anything like the first Killers album (which had three pretty amazing singles), I'd love to hear more of her stuff.

i don't actually hear too much of it myself but i know others, esp abby, argue that early hilary is basically modelled on the killers' sound

(i think early hilary is untethered and light and breezy where the killers plod)

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:12 (sixteen years ago) link

Jay is the statement "TVOTR is better than Hilary Duff" also intentionally provocative? Obviously on ILM it is!

Yes, I said upthread that the reverse irritates me, too.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:13 (sixteen years ago) link

we could go back to the question i asked at the start of this! jaymc check out 'beat of my heart', 'wake up', 'the math' and 'come clean' ASAP

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:13 (sixteen years ago) link

OK, sorry, the thread was moving fast at that point!

― Groke, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:14 (sixteen years ago) link

hey why is there a separate hip-hop thread when everyone knows that's not real music anyway lolol. that's like creepy white negro shit huh?

― Eppy, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:15 (sixteen years ago) link

8,004,327 posts and I still don't know if I should get the new Hilary. But I want to thank the Miranda Lambert claque for boosting the album of the year.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:16 (sixteen years ago) link

Is anyone on this thread trying to understand the teenpop thread posters? Like, I haven't seen the actual thread quoted once, most of the arguments coming from "what's wrong with the teenpop thread" are coming from knee-jerky comments in THIS discussion, e.g. "TVOTR is a million times suckier than Hilary Duff, who is a goddess and better than Bob Dylan."

xpost (ha, pedophilia's nuthin, if you really want me to get defensive, just mention AF...think I overreacted upthread tho so sorry bout that. FWIW, that post was about me remembering why I liked them in the first place -- and still do -- and comparing that reaction to what (I thought) they were doing on their new album. And I know I'm right, so there's no reason to argue further on this point.)

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:17 (sixteen years ago) link

New Hilary's great! Two or three dull tracks (but not bad), try "Gypsy Woman" for wtfness, "Dignity" for dance-pop goodness, and "Happy" for freestyle-inflected dance-pop goodness, then go from there.

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:18 (sixteen years ago) link

And "Outside of Me" for P!nk-penned half-dance half-confessional (Hilary gap-bridger) goodness.

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:19 (sixteen years ago) link

every time I start to see someone's point, they rep for something like "Beat Of My Heart," which is one of the worst songs I've ever heard. although it's kind of fun to sing along with the horrible "AWAAY AWAAAAY" part.

― Alex in Baltimore, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:20 (sixteen years ago) link

i dig "with love". i haven't heard it on the dancey/top40 station here yet, but i could definitely hear it on there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhgLoanz1b4

― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:21 (sixteen years ago) link

even jess might like "with love"!

― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:21 (sixteen years ago) link

ew Hilary's great! Two or three dull tracks (but not bad), try "Gypsy Woman" for wtfness,

not Crystal Waters...

thanks, dabug and scott!

"With Love" is ok, but it's got a Gwen Stefani "Crash" vibe to it.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:23 (sixteen years ago) link

that song reminds me of the mall.

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:24 (sixteen years ago) link

No, much more wtf than Crystal Waters (tho maybe she out-wtf's it in her own special way)...the gypsy is "bringing down the family name"!!! WTF cartoon racism!!

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:25 (sixteen years ago) link

"She can swallow knives/ She can swallow lives/ Golden black stare/ But the night of your demise"!!!! Also, bookended with a totally out of context Churchill quote: "The battle of France is over" w/ Hilary comment.

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 17:26 (sixteen years ago) link

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