Killing Joke - Classic Or Dud, Search And Destroy

As for not liking the music, what specifically? The guitars? The drumming? Dub influence? The melodies? oh wait, the song titles. thats it.

with the joke integrity is never an issue.

Certainly the likes of Ministry, Nine Inch Nails & other "industrial" heavyweights have profited in Killing Joke's slipstream. Have you heard the first Ministry album "With Sympathy" from 1983 ? Sounds like the f*ck*ng Thompson Twins !

Killing Joke soon developed their own "tribal" style of music which was plagiarized by the lesser likes of Sex Gang Children, Play Dead, 1919, Danse Society & a host of others. Fair enough, I can well appreciate that people do not like their music but to deny their importance in rock's rich history is being sadly ill-informed.

As for Jaz's classical projects, I sense an obvious air of inverted snobbery from the mainstream music press - never seems to get a mention. With the demise of Melody Maker & Sounds, the poor old NME cover laughable pop tripe cos it's desperate for readership.

They are acknowledged as being major influences on the likes of Faith No More, Soundgarden, Metallica and Nirvana. Musically, there's nobody quite like the Joke - they've been brave enough in the $$ driven world of commercialism to explore different sounds and rhythms.

Yeah, you either love them or hate them. I'm a Joker. I love the combination of the frenetic drums, driving bass and edgey guitar delivered like nobody else does. I get the adrenalin spike whenever I hear 'Wardance', 'Whiteout' or 'Exorcism'. The lyrics, while I don't always agree with the sentiment, compliment the music perfectly.

Definately paved the way for some classic acts. Definately more classic than dud.

The Joker in me says "if you don't like them, then fuck you". Good thing I have him under control...

-S

KILLING JOKE: THE BEGINNING

The first four albums are worth exploring Killing Joke (1980) and What’s this for (1981) Revelations (1982) Fire Dances. (1983)

The first two had a raw intense feeling, that merged punk, and to my ears Black Sabbath and even the stooges and dub influences into a new sonic blueprint. The next built two built and extended Killing Joke reputation as an individualistic band that stood apart from other bands.

The tribal drumming, the pounding rhythms, the use of keyboards, powerful bass guitars, and guitars that shatter with intensity and Jaz's passionate vocal delivery style.

KILLING JOKE: THE MID EIGHTIES

1985 – January saw the release of the Killing Joke most famous song “Love Like Blood” this was my first introduction to Killing Joke as 14 year old going on 15. The immense power and build up in this song, to me is as important as Love will tear us apart. The influence of this song alone inspired Faith No More to create similar intense tracks on their Introduce Yourself album.

Night time is one of my personal favourite album of the 80s, injected melody with power - and one of the classic alternative rock singles of all time - Love Like Blood. Although released in 1985 this still sounds contemporary with a razor sharp production by Chris Kimsey.

Brighter than a thousand Suns - was more melodic, but very atmospheric and arty. Listen closely the tempos were complex. Adorations was a fine single that should have been a hit, but just missed out.

MY FIRST EXPERIENCE OF KILLING JOKE

Back in 1985 ! over 16 years a go! The band music have been with me ever since. There are few British artists that were making music over twenty years that still have integrity, of believing music as an art form Killing Joke are one of them along with Wire, The The – recording music only when the need to make music arises, not as a quick short term career cash in releasing bullshit to appease the NME and Lammo.

WHAT ARE KILLING JOKE COMMUNICATING? WHY ARE KILLING JOKE IMPORTANT?

Killing Joke stand alone as band in their approach to music. They don’t belong to any one genre - Killing Joke stand alone. Killing Joke stand for individuality, integrity, a real escape for the mundane every day life routines.

INFLUENCE OF KILLING JOKE ON MUSIC

Voivod, Tool, Red Harvest, Solefald, Jane’s Addiction, early Faith No More, Modern English, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Rico, Nine Inch Nails, Scorn, Godflesh, The God Machine, Nirvana and many more.

Indeed my favourite album of 2000 Red Harvest – Cold Dark Matter, was influenced by Killing Joke

Red Harvest

A highly recommended for everyone who likes challenging edgy powerful intense music.

Fact Killing Joke are one of the most important British bands in influencing other artists across a wide spectrum of artists. Killing Joke have inspired, I can’t see dull plonkers like Cast, OCS, and Stereophonics ever inspiring anything creative! Can you? No

THE 90S LEGACY: Fact Killing Joke released two of the finest albums by a British band in the 90s, that they have written out of history by the NME/ Enemy and a generation of Britpoppers/ and dad rockers are not even aware of Killing Joke existence is despicable!

Tom stated "And is it just be or are they not anywhere near as heavy-sounding as they're made out to be." Tom, honestly have you heard 1990 Extremities album - one of the most sonically powerful albums by a British group over the past 25 years.

KJ Released two of the finest albums of the 90s: Extremities, Dirt and various Repressed Emotions - that was like Joy Division, Big Black and thrash metal (that they influenced in the first place) combined with the Killing Joke blueprint crushed into a molten breakdown of immense complex sonic power. Not since The Cure unleashed Pornography has psychotic power felt this multi dimensional and visceral extreme. Then in 1994 Pandemonium - Killing Joke injected 3D vibe into their music that transcended their previous peaks the tribal early sound, the supreme melodic power of Night time and the intensity of Extremities..

In 1994 Killing Joke stood alone there was no British band doing what they achieved with this album. This was not only an artistic success for the band, but also there most successful sales wise worldwide. They even achieved a few top 40 hits, all be it minor ones. At the start of the dull brit pop retro trip that we were to suffer throughout the 90s, this Killing joke shined like a beacon in a sea of conformist shit.

In 1994 I rated Bark Psychosis -hex, O rang - herd of instinct and Killing Joke - pandemonium as a reinvention in innovative British guitar music, each adding their own individual axis of invention. If you have never listened to Pandemonium give it a try, this was complex music, that was powerful with an inventive streak running through it, the intersounds of bass guitar, powerful guitar, synth mixed brilliantly by Youth.

No British band matched this album in this style throughout the 90s, and only Earthtone 9 arc’ tan’gent in 2000 attempted to get close with their excellent Killing Joke inspired sounds.

In half a decade of dull retro britpop, Killing Joke injected orginality and intensity, their pandemonium album is sublime.

THE FUTURE: Why we still need Killing Joke in the future more than ever?

Looking at the gormless bands in the NME/on Steve Lammo’s show, I thought that a new millennium we had seen the back of verse-chorus- verse 60s and rehashed influences. Have you seen the cunts flooding back this year Travis, Bluetones, Dodgy, The Divine Comdey, Stereophonics, The Manics, Ash, Gay Dad, Ocean Colour Scene, Cast, Shed Seven, and newer duds such as Clearlake, Lowgold, Coldplay, Terris, Toploader, Starsailor… it is enough to make anyone vomit in this MOR mid paced indie shit, that I know that many regulars of I Love Music detest as much Killing Joke fans!

We need Killing Joke to inject originality, vitality and passion back into rock music.

Singles collection album Autumn 2001.

A new album with Jaz, Raven, Geordie sometime in the future

However Killing Joke will release a new album, that was stated by Jaz Coleman last year will be the most violent opus yet! and Paul Raven has confirmed.. that moves are being made in preparation for the new album, which he has predicted will be a "crushing masterpiece". So the WAIT goes on !!!!

SUMMARY

I am looking forward to a future new Killing Joke, even if this delayed to 2002!. There are a very few bands to match them, although the forthcoming albums by Tool and The Chameleons are two that I am looking forward to in the interim.

Also turn the volume right up and feel the power and intensity of Killing Joke music shudder through you, I recommend the 1992 compilation Laugh I nearly bought one, and 1994 Pandemonium as excellent starting points.

Killing Joke passionate music for passionate people. Tom I hope you don't mind the take over of this thread, Killing Joke are a special band that deserve greater exposure, the likes of NME and Xfm have ignored them - they deserve respect.

By the way I don't think we ever will convert DC ! So leave it that !

For more information I Recommend Killing Joke: The Last Laugh The Last Laugh

DJ Martian DJ Martian

The thing about KJ lyrics is they seem to be advocating a kind of neo-primitivism; implying that humans are not animals with souls, but rather that they have souls *because* they are animals... it's an admirably unique stance, and you can see where the techno scene got a lot of it's philosophies from.

Now, as for their music: the only albums I've heard are Pandemonium and Democracy (and the psy-trance remix album, of course!). I loved Democracy, but Pandemonium struck me as a bit one-dimensional... nevertheless, I'm leaning towards "classic".

DJ Martian - Thanks for the intelligent post on KJ. That's why I enjoy ILM - it's a chance to get a fresh perspective on old stuff, as well as get a range of opinions on what's happening now. If only the KJ mailing list were able to express their passion in a similar way... After reading your thoughts, I almost want to give KJ a second listen. Maybe I will. After all I have heard little since the late 80's, although I'm familiar with most of the earlier albums. As I said, I didn't like them, but you never know.

I don't really go for tribal rhythms and grinding guitars in large doses, and 'violent intensity' ad infinitum is just dull. I also have a problem with the way that it seems to be equated with some sort of 'macho' punishment stance - 'are you HARD enough for KJ'. No doubt Jaz has a world-view which makes sense to him - and some kind of integrity. It's just that the way it's presented appears bleak, cynical and depressing - TO ME.

Influences on - well apart from Janes Addiction and Nirvana I don't much like any of the bands DJM mentions. In fact I don't like the late 80s/early 90's 'industrial' scene at all. I do dig some of the pioneers of the late 70's/ early 80's - Cab Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle, 23 Skidoo, Coil.

Influenced by - the claim that KJ have no predecessors is just plain wrong. What about PIL, Pere Ubu, Joy Div (early)?

The totalitarian attitude of most of the KJ Fanclub (do you get a monthly magazine and a little badge for joining?) started out as a laugh, reinforcing my perception of the band. But ultimately their response to a little criticism of 'their boys' is fairly repulsive. Do these people roam the internet stamping outany critisism of KJ? What a depressing way to spend your time. Calling me a sheep is pretty ironic.

Alex - your comments are interesting, I hadn't thought of The Pop Group, but good call.

All I wanted to add -- my opinion having already been made clear -- is that whoever told them _Outside the Gate_ was another close to a good idea needs a talking-to.

And whoever mentioned Play Dead and Sex Gang Children as ripoffs -- oh, perhaps, but such *fun* ripoffs. I only discovered Play Dead recently, and they're quite enjoyable.

You say you like '' Intellect '', I love it too, but I must warn you: you won't find anything similar. Killing Joke is a band under continous evolution. (Similar to Intellect??... maybe "Hollywood Babylon", awesome song incuded in the Showgirls soundtrack).

Killing Joke is a about social and political problems, but more than that is about joy and love to life... if you really give'em a listen --but a serious listen, not an easy ride in the stereo on your car or something like that-- you will find that Killing Joke is charged with a unique and very special vibe and power... I'm sure you won't regret.

Regards

Right! another K.J. fan

Javier "La broma mortal de Mexico"

Since the mighty Joke have not toured the UK for 6 years, maybe we're all suffering from PMT (pre manic tension) ! Inukko admitted only hearing post 1994 work - there is a treasure trove of stuff to indulge yourself in - go ahead, enjoy.

And as for the objection to the robust defence, abuse !?! Those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. We're not the elitest ones. Honest.

saying things like "do you get a monthly magazine and a little badge for joining?" (um... no), "Have they gone yet?", continually trying to emphasise some sort of 'us-and-them' situation. "Do these people roam the internet stamping out any critisism of KJ?" - no. someone who reads ILM is also a member of the gathering. (can you reconcile those two apparent contradictions?) they sent through a link to this page. quite simple really.

not that i'm defending everything said by the various members of the gathering. some of it was pretty moronic. but that's the point - i shouldn't have to defend it. try to see us a individuals, please. don't lump us all into one category.

if you choose to describe kj as "hopeless" then you should expect some people to get a bit pissed off, y'know? i'm sorry, but they _are_ a very influential band. and it's 'exorcism', not 'exorcist'. the song title is an analogy, it's about the release of suppressed emotions and aspects of our minds that perhaps we don't face up to because we find them ugly. it has nothing to do with "A goth- apocolyptic version of Spinal Tap".

i suggest dr c should think twice before he dismisses a generally well-respected and certainly very original band's entire output as "hopeless" and "preposterous". or at least be prepared to justify his claims when people who like said band unexpected turn up, rather than get all defensive and try to paint a false picture of the fans as a bunch of internet bullies. c'mon, of course we're gonna fight back!

anyway, on a separate note - i agree with jerry when he says kj isn't something you should want to like. it's a feeling you either identify with or you don't. it can sometimes take time to happen, but you'll know when you've got it. and it you don't know what i'm talking about then you don't like them.

Well why are you offering such arrogant and ignorant criticism of one of the industrial scene's most influential groups then?

We discuss music and bands. A lot of bands. There are no set ones we like, there are no set ones we don't. It's about individuals expressing their individual tastes.

All the threads "classic or dud" involve people saying whether a band is 'classic' or a band is 'dud'. Bands are generally used to criticism and rightly do not give a fuck what we think on the incredibly tiny chance that they would even encounter this forum anyway. So everything from reasoned discussion to jokey abuse *of bands* is fair game. Killing Joke have hardly been alone in getting slated by a couple of posters.

If teasing, mocking or abusing bands bothers you, you're probably better off in another forum. We, collectively, did not 'pick a fight' with anyone.

What isn't generally accepted is abuse between posters, because it turns threads into huge boring slagfests. Now some people who post here regularly have overstepped the mark and some people who don't post here regularly have overstepped the mark too. The mark is pretty much an unwritten and unspoken one so that's going to happen occasionally. But as moderator I'm now suggesting that people take the personal stuff to e-mail and any further discussion in the thread is taken to be about the band and not a personal slight on anyone.

Thanks to everyone - regulars or not - who contributed intelligently.

I pity him so.

I'm getting into this..

Lovely in his wiki bio about being obsessed by this track as a kid - can totally hear it! Remarkable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-bmJ2AYZK4

Gutted. Living in a small Midwest town in the ‘Eighties!’, the joy of discovering Buzzcocks, Bauhaus, The Fall, Banshees & Cure & & most most especially Killing Joke forged long term musical joy. While I caught others in various live incarnations, both of my opportunities to see KJ were dashed to work commitments or the bands’ own work visa problems. I so so regret not ever seeing Geordie’s guitar magic live.

I just heard Fire Dances for the first time this week. The man really loved his tritones.

Are there any other post-punk bands still playing with their original/classic lineups (other than U2)?

bauhaus (when they bother to tour)

even U2 is not playing with their classic lineup atm

I don't think I've ever heard a KJ song! need to remedy this asap

I hadn't listened to the Peel Sessions record in forever, no surprise that it sounds massive, RIP Geordie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLX4oVELmkI

Saw them play at City Gardens, NJ in the early '90s. Intense and exciting. Will never forget the energy in that room. Rest In Peace.

Alex's new post today well worth a read

https://vassifer.blogs.com/alexinnyc/2023/11/the-gathering-mourns-a-killing-joke-fans-lament.html

The Killing Joke documentary The Death and Resurrection Show is on Tubi watching now, pretty good so far, one shocker: amongst the talking heads being interviewed, one Mr. Jimmy Page speaking effusively about seeing them early on!

Yeah he was quoted in various obits about how much he loved Geordie's sound.

Further into the doc, it's pretty clear that Page and Jaz connected via a mutual interest in the occult, majick, Crowley, etc etc which makes sense, I guess I just was surprised that Page was engaged with anything punk or punk adjacent.

Page & Plant were famous for liking punk. They used to go see The Damned among others.