Magic: The Gathering C/D

and yeah giving your guys double strike twice makes them end up with double strike, theres no such thing as quadruple strike

I agree that Reverberate is strangely useful but I wouldn't take it over Spear. The problem with Reverberate is that you have to keep mana open for it which red doesn't really like to do. Spear is the kind of effect you're going to want with Reverberate like 75% of the time so just take it.

and no, that won't make it 4x, no such thing as Quad Strike (yet)

oh damn

my early guess at ranking the colors in the new set is:
red
green
blue
black
white

white's power at common seems to rely entirely on the instant speed populate spells, which means you have to be playing green or you're not always getting your card's worth (or your mana's worth in the case of the removal one). red has the best ability to curve out with efficient threats and has the best removal at common with 2 burn spells that both also hit players.

could I get a link for the setlist?

isn't it better to just rank the guilds? I doubt anyone's going to be going Green/Blue, for instance.

the populate mechanic really interests me for constructed, especially with Ratchet Boomb and Vapor Snag going out. Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage seems pretty incredible eh?

iatee - http://mtgsalvation.com/return-to-ravnica-spoiler.html

You can see actual card images here:

http://www.magicspoiler.com/return-to-ravnica-spoiler/

yeah i was freaking out over vitu-ghazi guildmage upthread, would be surprised if its not the best uncommon in the set

populate seems like a super swingy mechanic, like miracle-level swingy, but it won't be quite as obvious as miracles were. like, if you have a centaur token out then suddenly you're playing with a bunch of wolfir avengers in your deck, but if you don't then a bunch of your cards suck

Eyes in the Skies has got to be one of the best commons in the set, no?

i dunno about best in set, its in the top 25% for sure though

I'd have cut volcanic strength for another favor, I just didn't have one. most of the rest of my sb was clunky creatures.

p much any red creature is better than volcanic strength in your deck since a) you're relying on cleaver riot as one of your big finishers and that wants as many creatures in play as possible to get maximum effect b) you have the red ring allowing you to turn most red creatures into threats, which your deck lacks and c) the low threat density and need to swarm already leaves you really vulnerable to removal, auras just play into your decks weaknesses

i think strength is really, really good for you when you can turn on the evasion since thats something you're deck really wants but otherwise you'd run like canyon minotaur over it even and i cant think of red creature worse than that

i havent really spent much time looking at the spoilers but i think u/w is probably the best draft color rn if you dont consider rares? detain seems super strong, the other color combos dont have that many great ways of dealing w/fliers and there are a lot of really effective ways to interact w/combat at instant speed. the one mana white combat trick that gives first strike + lifelink seems like it will just be a blowout until people learn to play around it.

Doesn't red have a (basically unplayable) common like this in M13? Without the lifelink though.

The guilds I'm most curious about are Izzet and Golgari. Izzet because some of the overload spells seem super powerful. There's one that gives a creature +1/+0 and unblockable, one that taps an opponent's creature, and one that gives them -2/-0 and forces them to attack. That's THREE ways to get your whole team through for an alpha strike. Golgari seems good because nearly all the scavenge creaturs are solid.

I don't really feel comfortable naming one guild as the best because I'm sure R&D worked really hard to ensure they were all on roughly equal footing. They're aware that this set is possibly going to get drafted more than any other set in history.

p much any red creature is better than volcanic strength in your deck since a) you're relying on cleaver riot as one of your big finishers and that wants as many creatures in play as possible to get maximum effect b) you have the red ring allowing you to turn most red creatures into threats, which your deck lacks and c) the low threat density and need to swarm already leaves you really vulnerable to removal, auras just play into your decks weaknesses

i think strength is really, really good for you when you can turn on the evasion since thats something you're deck really wants but otherwise you'd run like canyon minotaur over it even and i cant think of red creature worse than that

this is coming from a small sample set (~10 games) but I found it to be pretty good due to the quantity of 1 and 2 drops I was playing - paired w/ a 1 one drop if I don't have a 2 drop, otherwise on turn 3, as I'd often have an opening there (only two 3 drops). like I'm sure the ring would win me more games w/ a 100 game sample set but volcanic def did in these 10.

no wait I count 3

http://puremtgo.com/articles/recent?uid=oraymw&title=&field_summary_value=

this guy is pretty much the only person i trust to have an accurate judgment of limited formats early on, since he actually uses aggregated statistics instead of just trial and error. he's been completely spot on about innistrad, AVR, and M13 limited so far, and has some interesting looks at a few older formats too.

well your one and two drops arent great targets for strength is part of the problem, like ok you've just invested four mana and card and a half in making a centaur courser

its not really about ring vs. strength so much as random red creature vs. strength and against any non-red opponent i just cant see strength being better than like, dragon hatchling for you.

Doesn't red have a (basically unplayable) common like this in M13?

haha ive totally owned so many people with kindled fury

a centaur courser that's attacking turn two! I think I have a frogbs-esque-sleep relation to the card / boost enchantments in general.

also I am for more aggregated statistical takes being posted itt

Creature enchantments are kind of shitty on principle, though they've been getting better/less prone to card disadvantage lately. I do like Tricks of the Trade a lot because it straight up gives your opponent a "deal with me or lose" problem and works well with Scroll Thief. Mark of the Vampire can swing games so far in one direction that it's worth risking the surprise Unsummon.

As for Volcanic Strength, I only really like it if your opponent is playing Mountains (which can be insane) or on something like a Tormented Soul. The Rings are obviously slower but IMO are better.

i think creature enchantments are actually legitimate these days now that they've sped up limited by a couple turns and tempo is more important. if you play Mark of the Vampire on a random 2/2 and attack, and they kill it with Turn to Slag next turn, you still got a 8 point life swing plus forced their hand on how they use their removal, which is often going to add up to a card's worth of value despite the '2-for-1' on the surface.

yeah in my deck an early game volcanic was the equivalent of a burn spell, even if they have removal it's gonna have done some damage

like i try not to even think about 'card advantage' anymore in the traditional sense - valuing cards on a discrete continuum rather than a continuous one seems antiquated, and it doesn't consider tempo which is really fucking important in modern magic

all the creature enchants are p good used correctly (wellll probably not divine favor) i guess im arguing iatee isnt really making correct use of volcanic strength in his deck. i have to admit tho that i really like tricks on reckless brute and have cast this way more than i should have during M13...

i always like the ars arcanum guys overviews but the thing he misses is how the metagame esp online does change - by the end of M13 i was actively looking to go U/R not because i was the best deck but because it was the most powerful deck that was consistently open

he did do a second AVR article because the metagame swung pretty wildly once people realized that U/G had all the best commons. in general every format has cards that are better than they look and cards that are worse, and even the best limited pros don't seem to figure them out until 3-4 weeks into the set.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/20/3326708/magic-the-gathering-players-championship

The plans are working. Hasbro, which bought Wizards of the Coast for $325 million in 1999, claimed the volume of card sales doubled between 2008 and 2011 with the player base growing 80 percent to 12 million

lotsa people @ the store I go to seem to have gotten back recently.

they should make duels of the planeswalkers free.

I've been having a great time the past two days on mtgo - I created a new account and set myself a challenge to invest nothing and trade up from the starting cards, and it's super addictive to see how far you can get. I ended up with a WB control deck that was doubling as a shop window and it was awesome getting to play with stuff like Wurmcoil and Hero of Bladehold as they passed through inventory. Moodles - play yr Odric deck?

like i try not to even think about 'card advantage' anymore in the traditional sense - valuing cards on a discrete continuum rather than a continuous one seems antiquated, and it doesn't consider tempo which is really fucking important in modern magic
― ciderpress, Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:07 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
all the creature enchants are p good used correctly (wellll probably not divine favor) i guess im arguing iatee isnt really making correct use of volcanic strength in his deck. i have to admit tho that i really like tricks on reckless brute and have cast this way more than i should have during M13...

This idea is v.v. interesting to me - do you guys think a straight-up enchant creature will ever see constructed play? Not counting stuff like rancor which doesn't have the 2-for-1 disadvantage, or the era when Eldrazi Conscription got cheated into play - I'm thinking more of like some 2mana MotVampire just getting thrown on a gravecrawler or whatever. It seems like it's way overdue, maybe it would have to be super rare so as not to mess up limited.

If I recall correctly Armadillo Cloak saw some play, didn't it? Also, Moldervine Cloak was played in a few decks and you can definitely get 2-for-1'd there.

My favorite creature enchantment for standard was Elephant Guide, as it was kind of like Rancor, just a big bomb-ass creature enchantment that didn't really hurt you if it got removed.

Spectral Flight has seen some play recently in Standard and there's no card advantage there at all. Except there's not really any risk either, since it always got slapped on a Hexproof creature like Invisible Stalker or Geist of Saint Traft. Think of it as equipment that dodges Divine Offering.

Spectral Flight has seen play within the past few months! if that doesn't count then i don't know what does

And though I kind of hate Hexproof, it's interesting that there was finally an environment where a very run-of-the-mill Aura had a place.

Moodles - play yr Odric deck?

Yah, same username on MTGO. Although you may have to face the werewolf pack that Ciderpress has been helping me get set up.

Would love to get some trading tips. It's a topic that I don't really have a feel for in MTGO. Not sure how to approach it.

I didn't know people played that in Standard! I thought people were just doing Runchanter's Pike/Sword of Whatever. I played a dude in draft who had Geist + Spectral Flight and got my ass beat. No way around that.

By the way, I checked my online collection and I now have 7 Sands of Deliriums over ~15 drafts. I'm getting a lot of them passed to me. I can see why people don't like the card - if you draft around it, you'll wind up with some crappy U/W deck that can't win without it, and if you don't, you're sometimes forced to choose between mill and playing creatures. Either way this card has won me a lot of games where I was in terrible shape otherwise or in danger of losing a race. I think I was actually right about this card!

i had another sands failure the other night, this time taking it 2nd pack after i was already drafting a control deck. seems like every time i have it i either draw it when i'm already winning with a harbor bandit, or topdeck it when i'm behind on board and need another blocker. i've had it 5 or 6 times now, all in decent controlling decks, and haven't won a draft with it yet.

xathrid gorgon on the other hand, i have like 7 or 8 of on mtgo and it's been awesome every time.

that is strange; for me I seem to get it a lot when I'm in deadlocked board positions or can play a game of attrition. even getting it in your opener isn't bad. it affects the game in an odd way for both players but I've certainly won my fair share with this card. maybe I'm just lucky.

Gorgon is incredible too of course, though it's led to quite a few games that really just game down to getting decked

i pretty much always have harbor bandit in my draft decks so that's not been an issue

anyone wanna play a quick EDH game on cockatrice?

so i played my first ptq on saturday... got passed a truly brutal pool so only managed to go 4-2 drop. not sure i built my deck optimally but im p disappointed that i didnt have even an average pool to build w/ since i feel like i know this format really well

what did your deck look like?

1 duty-bound dead
1 crippling blight
1 knight of glory
1 elvish visionary
1 flinthoof boar
1 timberpack wolf
1 sign in blood
1 searing spear
1 titantic growth
1 ring of xathrid
1 ring of kalonia
2 servant of nefarox
1 rummaging goblin
1 cower in fear
1 flames of the firebrand
2 bloodhunter bat
1 shimian specter
1 spiked baloth
1 silklash spider
1 garruk's packleader
1 essence drain
1 hamletback goliath

just a really terrible jund midrange deck - my rare pool was battle of wits, the goliath, silklash spider, specter, dragonskull summit and door to nothingness. best uncommon was flames and i had a fog bank. i probably couldve built a very slow u/r/b deck with the fog bank two wall of fires and a bunch of card draw and counterspells hoping basically to win via tricks of the trade on a fire elemental or goliath. i wouldve been playing worse cards but the deck has a stronger gameplan than the one i built since it gave me more outs to all the midrange-y bomb-heavy decks i played against esp in the X-1 bracket

when did you start going green?

trying to figure out something i can build for standard without dropping $100+ on new cards right away. i'm wondering if mono-red will be viable for the first month or so like it often is; Ash Zealot is one of the few rares in the new set that seems reasonably priced, and the rest of the deck would be all common/uncommons

i wanted to port over the angel of glory's rise deck from block since i suspect there will be a shitload of zombies being played early on, but the manabase for that deck is just so terrible, there's no way to trim it down to 3 colors without losing an important card

I would have thought zombies was the budget deck? I don't pay attention to card prices though, so apologies if Gravecrawler is suddenly a $50 card.

gravecrawler is 10, geralf's messenger is 10, falkenrath aristocrat is 15, blood crypt will be at least 10 at the start, it's not looking like much of a budget deck anymore even if you don't run bonfires.

i think junk tokens might be a decent cheap deck the most important cards are almost all uncommons and even the mythics its running are reasonable esp on modo. the real qn is how competitive tokens will be in this environment i guess

yeah i dont mind buying tons of shit on modo since its cheaper and its trivial to sell it back whenever i need the $ again, buying new cards irl is the painful bit

ive got an idea for a bant ramp/control deck that i'd like to test out, im not sure it can beat a hardcore control deck with actual counterspells but if the meta has a lot of midrange then it might crush.