Magic: The Gathering C/D

like I had one game where I had a Welkin Tern, two Attended Knights w/ Soldier tokens, and maybe one other guy out while my opponent was playing Deadly Recluses and big green dudes, Sleep can totally win you a game like that, that you couldn't win otherwise

yeah but I think you're putting too much weight on those miracle games and not enough weight on the many other times when it was just another card in your hand

perhaps - but it always seems to be a card I wish I had/hoped my opponent didn't

anyway, what do you guys think about Mwonvuli Beast Tracker? I've been quite underwhelmed with it

i only take it if i have silklash spider, vampire nighthawk, or xathrid gorgon. in my experience the common spiders and slimes aren't reason enough to play it over a better creature

I loved Sleep in M10 and M11, but something about this format made it worse. Control decks seem more viable in this set and it's terrible for them, basically just Fog. And in an aggressive deck, I've sometimes found myself trading off creatures and losing them to removal, in which case Sleep is a horrible topdeck. Still a fairly high pick for blue, but not for every deck.

frogbs - Sleep buys you one turn if you use it defensively or if you have flyers and are racing ground durdles, not two turns. It's good if you have a couple of 3/3s that wouldn't ordinarily get through and you can suddenly represent 10+ damage out of nowhere, but in almost every other situation it's a four-mana fog. The upside is good enough that I agree I would take it over most (all?) blue commons, but I'm not sure it's better than Fog Bank or Switcheroo. If I took it early in pack one I'd only be about 70% to even end up maindecking it, since so many blue decks end up pretty controllish.

I guess what Vinnie said

yeah sorry I mindboggled myself, yes I suppose it's a glorified Fog in some cases but even in that case it gives you one free whack at your opponent, and if two wins you the game then it gives you that. I guess if everyone thinks I'm overrating it I'll just assume that maybe it's not as good as I'm saying, just know it's the card I wish I had a LOT, and also the one blue uncommon I'm usually afraid of my opponent having (outside of a turn 4-5 Talrand's Summoning which always sucks)

some guy just spoiled almost the entire RTR set

first impressions:
-lots of big clunky creatures and spells at common/uncommon, plus good defensive creatures in every color. will probably be the slowest format since Rise of the Eldrazi. this is awesome.
-only a few hard removal spells at common (and i'm even counting the 5 damage red spell which doesn't kill some of the green creatures). i can see the ground getting gummed up pretty regularly. evasion and tricks for breaking board stalls will be pretty important.
-playing rakdos is going to require some serious tightrope walking - the raw power is there on the unleash guys but you're playing an aggro strategy in a good control set and it'll be real hard to beat something like that 3/4 hexproof green guy.
-multicolor-ness isn't played up quite as much as in the original ravnica block. i think 2-color decks will be doable here, whereas old ravnica pretty much required you to be 3 to get enough good spells.

vitu-ghazi guildmage seems like an absurd bomb for an uncommon

Wow @ the one mana unleash that's R/B hybrid. Surely a red 2/2 can't block for one is going to get played. Between that and Ash Zealot (and Thundermaw, I guess) it looks like red may be relevant again?

BTW I know this has been spoiled for a while but I feel like Cyclonic Rift has the potential to be nuts, Delver/Snapcaster is still going to be a thing so a good tempo card with the option of a late-game blowout seems good to me.

In general I think there are probably more good rares than we've ever gotten (seriously, Apocalypse is the last set I can remember with such a high % of playable rares), but saturation of this set is going to tank a lot of them to lower prices than everyone is expecting. Shocklands already down to $12 and dropping.

yep i expect all the good rares to be down to $5 after a month barring a product shortage. there's just too many for them to all hold price

Tavern Swindler 1B
Creature - Human Rogue
T, Pay 3 life: Flip a coin. If you win the flip, you gain 6 life.
2/2

I can't explain why but I'm so glad this card exists.

Also I'm getting the same impression as you cider, this format is going to be slow and I'm guessing will be about developing small advantages over time, with the exception of Rakdos which seems like it gets some great aggro cards. I'm really curious to see how Izzet plays out here.

I like how this is an active thread now

yeah but its mainly just me and frogbs nerding out constantly and scaring away the people who don't draft 3 times a week

I have committed to drafting once a week but nerding out 7 nights.

does anybody actually cube draft? I kinda wanna

I like the idea that there can be some ultimate perfect drafting set that someone builds

I would like to be able to play magic casually in real life with people who aren't neckbeardy gamestore teens without investing much money. I think this means I should make a friend and then buy some crads. The friend part is the hard one.

i've only done cube on magic online, and i didn't really like it. i think it varies a lot depending on whats in the cube though, and would definitely be more fun irl.

love reading this thread and only barely understanding what's going on.

I love Cube draft and even have my own Cube assembled, though I'm missing a lot of cards I'd want to add. Took waaaaay more time to make than I originally thought it would, and I've only been able to draft with it like five times over four years. The problem is my friends and I draft so rarely, we usually just want to draft the latest set when we hang out.

"Power cube" drafts rule, I'm sure there are other great cube ideas out there, but just taking the best 300 cards then adding in 200 cards to compliment them (like a good assortment of creatures like Jackal Pup, Pumpknights, etc. to make creature-based strategies work) is great. I know you only need 360 to draft but I like when the same cards don't show up every time.

I've heard of really fun all-common cubes, awful-rare cubs, or "nostalgia cubes" which focus on Mirage/Tempest/Urza's blocks...possibilities are endless

multicolor-ness isn't played up quite as much as in the original ravnica block. i think 2-color decks will be doable here, whereas old ravnica pretty much required you to be 3 to get enough good spells.

i wasn't around for the original ravnica, but rav-rav-rav drafting favoured two-colour strategies, didn't it? weren't dimir mill and selesnya tokens like the two best archetypes? i'm sure when we're drafting full block people will gravitate more towards three colour decks, if only to get some overlap between rtr and gatecrash.

yeah you're probably right, i wasn't thinking about that since i've only drafted old ravnica as a full block

i have to say i was p excited for ravnica but finding out im going to get to put filibuster counters on things just puts the whole set over the top imo

gotta say pretty much every rare in this set intrigues me to some degree, drafting this is going to be incredible

yeah

i'm trying to figure out what guild to pick at the prerelease, was originally going to do rakdos and that still looks fun but azorius looks pretty strong now that i've seen all the cards and realized there's only one common outside of UW that can block a 2/2 flier

actually there's 2 whoops. one is a wall though so no big deal

really annoyed. drafted prob my best deck yet tonight (v. fast red/black) but lost the first match 1-2 because of poor play (2-0 the other two. didn't place)

the first poor play was reverberating a turn to slag into a 1/6 creature. without thinking about the numbers. prob could have won w/ if I held on to it.

third game I held onto a 1 land hand cause the rest was too good. just say no.

wait so you used 2 cards to kill a butt-mode primal clay? that does seem pretty loose unless your deck is all 1-toughness guys

there are keepable 1-land hands but you really have to be 1) on the draw and 2) have a plan for winning the game off of ~2 lands

like if you have any creature with 2+ toughness you just let them block and then slag it for the rest

no he was slagging me, I had some creatures out and he only had the wall, so I figured I'd get rid of it in response

oh doh

ya and he was a srs player so there was no 'oh wait nvm'

my deck:
ring of valkas
cathedral of war
cleaver riot
reverberate
volcanic geyser
furnace whelp
searing spear
reckless brute
volcanic strength
mogg flunkies
crimsom muckwader
krenko's command
2x goblin arsonist
giant scorpion
veilborn ghoul
2x duty bound dead
duskmantle prowler
servant of nefarox
dark favor
ravenous rats
liliana's shade
bloodhunter bats

p1p1 was slumbering dragon but I ended up leaving it out

veilborn ghoul is pretty marginal and i'm not sure about cleaver riot there but looks good otherwise

mebbe I shoulda played a second liliana's shade instead? cleavers worked great tho

slumbering dragon actually played pretty well the times I had it. they only get 4 attacks in before it activates so they need to save a removal spell. if they don't have one, it'll basically stop them from attacking at all. plus it plays every nice with ring of valkas. i'd do it!! also cider's right, Ghoul is really not very good, that "can't block" clause really nerfs it

cleaver is great when you're even or ahead but it can't win from behind quite as well as overrun did. i like it best in RG decks wehre you can put your 10 power on the board in larger chunks (3/3s and such) so they have to chump block instead of just having to trade

I was usually ahead, it was often my game finisher along w/ volcanic geyser

also crimson muckwader is just too good in a deck like this

veilborn ghoul is pretty marginal and i'm not sure about cleaver riot there but looks good otherwise

ghoul is ok w/double rummaging goblin i think

prowler is p bad, way worse than shade. its two abilities - haste and exalted - arent really that useful to you esp w/the red ring so youre mostly overpaying for a 2/2. i guess prowler has the advantage of not being double black. maindeck volcanic strength (+2/+2 and mtnwalk right?) seems not great, youd def take another favor over it i think. might cut rats for dragon considering you have the ring but both are p marginal in your deck. id be looking to cut cleaver riot and reverberate as well but it depends on what your sb looks like, reverberate only has a few targets in your deck but i can see it being really effective against blue and black decks for you so maybe its worht a slot.

really hate slumbering dragon. it's a fog bank with suspend 4. i mean not the worst or anything (esp with red ring) but it is not powerful enough for p1p1; i'd take basically any playable uncommon over it.

it's not really like Fog Bank, because it doesn't just block a creature when it activates, it blocks it, kills it, then swings for 8. I've played against people who drop it turn 1 and it really hampers your offense, you basically have to wait for a removal spell. All I can say is it was better than it looked. I can see p1p1 in a weak pack (but yes there are plenty of uncommons I'd take over it)

I found reverberate to be more useful than I expected. I spent a long time deciding between that and a searing spear, went w/ that against my better judgment. (also coulda sworn I drafted 2 spears but couldn't find the other.) and I'd have cut volcanic strength for another favor, I just didn't have one. most of the rest of my sb was clunky creatures.

and yeah dragons was p1p1 in a weak pack.

rules q: reverberating cleaver riot = doesn't really make things 4x, right?

(deciding as draft picks, I mean)

spear definitely better than reverb

reverb is better than a mediocre creature but not better than removal or the good creatures like bladetusk boar, mogg flunkies etc

and yeah giving your guys double strike twice makes them end up with double strike, theres no such thing as quadruple strike

I agree that Reverberate is strangely useful but I wouldn't take it over Spear. The problem with Reverberate is that you have to keep mana open for it which red doesn't really like to do. Spear is the kind of effect you're going to want with Reverberate like 75% of the time so just take it.

and no, that won't make it 4x, no such thing as Quad Strike (yet)