A Guy Called Gerald - Black Secret Technology vs. Goldie - Timeless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpMY6B1vzow

actually the optical thing is a lie

it was rob playford, not optical

though i feel like optical did some sick engineering work before he made his name for himself

the pre-dolphin song breakdown at 2:50 in universal love is the very definition of aquatic jungle

what engineering work did optical do pre "To Shape The Future"?

i'm talking out of my ass, probably

i think he did some ed rush and grooverider stuff

and dom & roland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L94u1h0Rnx8

groove called that track "more devastating than the borg"

optical two years before that track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrAqd98hnbw

the way the drums go crazay from 1:00 to 2:00 in the boymerang remix is just so fucking next level

and the bassline at 2:20 is just ... fucking sick

youtubes don't load for me at work - what's the d&r track more devastating than the borg?

For what it's worth, this thread has convinced me I should give Timeless another try. At the time I was so underwhelmed by all its new age cheesiness, especially compared to earlier, awesome Metalheads singles, that I haven't actually listened to it since the 1990s. I think these days I have a much higher tolerance for cheesiness than I had back then.

yeah i don't feel like either record loses at the expense of the other, mostly this thread has just made me wanna dig up more of the 90s stuff i've forgotten, also d'n'b 4ever

FWIW I think Timeless has regained a lot of mystique (or at least I've seen a lot more referencing of it late, inc. an installation playing "Mother" heh) - the whole new age-yness seems to vibe in w/a lot of art school kids/internet art/etc in the uh Lamp zone atm, lot of ~pristine~/dolphins/etc aesthetics going around.

― etc, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 02:14 (7 hours ago) Bookmark

idk if i'd have put it quite on the nose as this (not that you're wrong either mind) but i def agree timeless feels alive and like it still has a relevance compared to bst and indeed p much any of its dnb time capsule contemporaries

obv that is not a value judgement (although i like new things so for me it is)

also i am the sort of reprobate that will try and air guitar to 'sea of tears' so ymmv

Tim - boymerang's "still" VIP (optical / Dom & Roland mix!!)

single disc of Timeless is practically worthless

At the time I was so underwhelmed by all its new age cheesiness

it doesn't really have that much of this tho does it? Sea Of Tears may be the only main offender but it still has one of the greatest loop-based openings ever. most of the albums darts between intense brutality and jazzy noodling, not whales n' crystals.

Well, by "cheesiness" I was also referring to the jazzy noodling.

"sea of tears" is the shit

RIP diane charlemagne :-(

^^^^^^

But also here was a bit of offhand OTMness from me several years back (bolded):

Like, both albums ended up on FACT's 100 albums of the 90s list, but BST chimes in with that entire sensibility (i.e. the one that considers all uk dance music as an idea to be reverse engineered from Digital Mystikz) better than Timeless does

timeless still >> bst

bst sounds like it was recorded through a cardboard tube

there's like three different mixes of BST, though, right?

or "masterings", whatever

i have two of them, the CDs from 95 and 96. the two of them sound objectively bad. i see they were remastered again in 2008 and 2012. how do the new ones sound? better, i hope.

I haven't been able to find a copy of anyversion for a reasonable price.. Timeless sets such a high bar for terrific production though, imo, i can't really criticize BMT for not sounding so crisp and bright or whatever. I actually kind of like the "murkiness" of BST, it's like there's a light mist falling on everything. I might prefer 28 gun bad boy, dunno if that's a challop or not.

aw jeez @ everyone who doesn't care for "sea of tears" in this thread

i fucking LOVE "sea of tears"

I have hippie type feelings about Inner City Life related to Buddhism and and life/death and the cosmos and stuff

I've always found BMT impenetrable (and it sounds like shit). Timeless gets my vote.

I love taking sides threads like these that foster enthusiasm and good discussion and stuff.

Also, "Finley's rainbow" is so not the best song on BST, that's as abhorrent as saying "frontier psychiatrist" is the best avalanches song

Except Finley's Rainbow is awesome

It's just not the best

I have the BST mp3s from bleep.com that got released in '06 that I assume are basically the original CD versions and the '08 CD version. The '08 version has MUCH more bass, and it sounds cleaner overall. I had actually kind of forgotten how much different the bass is since I don't really listen to the older version anymore.

> RIP diane charlemagne :-(

what the...

The '08 version has MUCH more bass, and it sounds cleaner overall. I had actually kind of forgotten how much different the bass is since I don't really listen to the older version anymore.

I have the 1996 version of the album (the one with the colourful cover) and the 2008 remaster on CD, and I can't really hear much difference in the bass...? The bass is already super boomin' and deep in the 1990s release, it doesn't sound like Gerald did that much to it with the remaster. The main difference between the 1996 and the 2008 versions seem to be that the samples and high-end synth sounds are kinda crisper, but even with those the changes aren't dramatic or anything. Things like the "ooh, energy, I feel your energy" sample on "Energy" still sound muffled on the 2008 version. TBH, like someone said on the other BST thread, it sounds like Gerald mostly just upped the loudness level with the remaster. If you listen to the original side by side with the 2008 and raise the volume on the former so that it matches the higher loudness of the latter, the differences are pretty minor.

Hmm, reading that other thread, some people seem to be saying that the mixing/mastering on the 1996 version was already changed from the 1995 version... I've never understood that this was the case, I thought the 1996 version was simply reissue with some tweaking of the tracklist. Can anyone who owns both of these tell me if there's a difference in sound between them?

The 1995 version has this cover:

http://vinyl301.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/front1.jpeg

The 1996 version has a different cover, and it also replaces "Voodoo Rage" with "Hekkle & Koch" and "Touch Me":

http://buildanddestroy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/R-105517-1190750594.jpeg

The 2008 remastered version has the same cover and tracklist as the 1995 one.

Timeless just edges it over BST for me, but re: the discussion upthread you can count me in as one of the weirdos that prefers Parallel Universe to both.

― Grimes, Shoots & Leaves (Mr Andy M), Tuesday, 11 September 2012 20:09 (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

God, what the hell was I even on back then?

Non-italicised bit still stands though.

Every sleeve variation is awful. Even Master P had better album covers in the 90s. Parallel Universe and Jacobs Optikal Stairway LP are both strong contenders for best dnb statement albums from the mid90s.

also i am the sort of reprobate that will try and air guitar to 'sea of tears' so ymmv

― r|t|c, Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:30 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

:D

Literally the very best thing you could do today is buy all the “Producer’s Cut Series” tracks on A Guy Called Gerald’s Bandcamp. Seems to be all 94-95 era tracks and i would say in aggregate is actually superior to BST (no “Nazinji-Zaka” or “Glok (Remix)” though).

OMG

Here's hoping he unleashes 28 gun bad boy + all those white labels/acetates

but damn thank you for the tip

28 Gun Bad Boy isn’t up there but is available for streaming on Apple Music? Odd.

Anyway I think a lot of these are in fact white label releases - e.g. I know “Kicking Da Jungle Beat” was one of the white label tracks he put out in 1994.

Probably exaggerating above about these being better than BST but it is all great and sometimes spectular - I particularly like “Beat Dis” (probably 1993?).

i was rereading this thread last night and realized i've only ever known the single disc version of timeless. correcting this atm

I need to revisit both of these. I feel like I wasn't quite ready for them in my dumbass teens.

Timeless (always the double LP version for me) would get my vote quickly but am quite interested in which version of BST stands above (presumably the one on bandcamp?). Can confirm that my CD copy is very tinny and bass lacking.

I've probably listened to LTJ Bukem's Producer 01 the most, come to think of it.