A Guy Called Gerald - Black Secret Technology vs. Goldie - Timeless

(d/led pdf & ocr, don't worry i'm not insane)

This is so true! Although in my memory (I no longer have my copy) 'Ima' was more proggy than deep? Maybe deep-prog.

I would have definitely tagged it as prog, I mean " Deep Skies"

Lol at that Kodwo Eshun description... I tried to read More Brilliant Than the Sun at least two times, but each time I just couldn't go on after the first 50 pages or so. It felt like he had some interesting ideas, but they were buried to deep within his post-futurist techno poetry.

congrats at least on not saying THR RHYTHMATRIX kodwo

does he go on to talk about "the paranormal in four form" or is that a different chapter?

post-futurist techno poetry good, intersting ideas bad

Timeless just edges it over BST for me, but re: the discussion upthread you can count me in as one of the weirdos that prefers Parallel Universe to both.

weirdo

i feel like BST and parallel universe are more "subtle" in the mike skinner sense of the word (ie "boring")

whereas goldie's grabs you by the neck and says DRUM AND BASS MOTHERFUKER, HOUR LONG SYMPHONIC SUITE TO FOLLOW!!!!!!!!!

BST feels to me that it has aged in a different way from Timeless; like BST has bits where I think "I can see how this appealed so much to me" while Timeless has parts that still just grab and appeal in the same way, even though they don't have that same impact of the strange they did then.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I should've kept this poll open longer. Or perhaps it's that I regret having voted with my gut, not having actually listened to Timeless in years. I listened to Timeless so much in the mid-90s, that I kind of exhausted all the sense of wonder it had for me. I came to BST very slowly, a track here, a track there, over the course of many years. Eventually, I consumed it whole and gushed at how raw and enigmatic it seems.

I also recall Burial referring to it as a major influence around the time he was making Untrue (I think). The inspiration seems pretty clear, and adds a poignant layer to the legacy of BST.

Timeless has come to be so heavily associated with going to raves and driving up the coast, and doing all kinds of things in the 90s, that it's harder for me to listen to with fresh ears. And as nashwan touched on, Goldie's future celeb status also placed too many concrete associations in my brain when I listen to it.

I initially expected results like this, but after hearing so many spirited defenses of Timeless, expected this to be much closer - and wasn't actually sure which would come out on top.

Damn, thought I'd have the chance to sneak in and throw a vote Timeless' way, took way longer than I thought to dig up my ropey CD of BST. FWIW I think Timeless has regained a lot of mystique (or at least I've seen a lot more referencing of it late, inc. an installation playing "Mother" heh) - the whole new age-yness seems to vibe in w/a lot of art school kids/internet art/etc in the uh Lamp zone atm, lot of ~pristine~/dolphins/etc aesthetics going around.

welp

now this is happening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdF5_6pYTbE

Listened to Timeless on the way to/from class last night. Still a mindfuck.

Cliche but It really needs to be listened to loud.

that's because it's mastered by dilinja and optical!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpMY6B1vzow

actually the optical thing is a lie

it was rob playford, not optical

though i feel like optical did some sick engineering work before he made his name for himself

the pre-dolphin song breakdown at 2:50 in universal love is the very definition of aquatic jungle

what engineering work did optical do pre "To Shape The Future"?

i'm talking out of my ass, probably

i think he did some ed rush and grooverider stuff

and dom & roland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L94u1h0Rnx8

groove called that track "more devastating than the borg"

optical two years before that track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrAqd98hnbw

the way the drums go crazay from 1:00 to 2:00 in the boymerang remix is just so fucking next level

and the bassline at 2:20 is just ... fucking sick

youtubes don't load for me at work - what's the d&r track more devastating than the borg?

For what it's worth, this thread has convinced me I should give Timeless another try. At the time I was so underwhelmed by all its new age cheesiness, especially compared to earlier, awesome Metalheads singles, that I haven't actually listened to it since the 1990s. I think these days I have a much higher tolerance for cheesiness than I had back then.

yeah i don't feel like either record loses at the expense of the other, mostly this thread has just made me wanna dig up more of the 90s stuff i've forgotten, also d'n'b 4ever

FWIW I think Timeless has regained a lot of mystique (or at least I've seen a lot more referencing of it late, inc. an installation playing "Mother" heh) - the whole new age-yness seems to vibe in w/a lot of art school kids/internet art/etc in the uh Lamp zone atm, lot of ~pristine~/dolphins/etc aesthetics going around.

― etc, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 02:14 (7 hours ago) Bookmark

idk if i'd have put it quite on the nose as this (not that you're wrong either mind) but i def agree timeless feels alive and like it still has a relevance compared to bst and indeed p much any of its dnb time capsule contemporaries

obv that is not a value judgement (although i like new things so for me it is)

also i am the sort of reprobate that will try and air guitar to 'sea of tears' so ymmv

Tim - boymerang's "still" VIP (optical / Dom & Roland mix!!)

single disc of Timeless is practically worthless

At the time I was so underwhelmed by all its new age cheesiness

it doesn't really have that much of this tho does it? Sea Of Tears may be the only main offender but it still has one of the greatest loop-based openings ever. most of the albums darts between intense brutality and jazzy noodling, not whales n' crystals.

Well, by "cheesiness" I was also referring to the jazzy noodling.

"sea of tears" is the shit

RIP diane charlemagne :-(

^^^^^^

But also here was a bit of offhand OTMness from me several years back (bolded):

Like, both albums ended up on FACT's 100 albums of the 90s list, but BST chimes in with that entire sensibility (i.e. the one that considers all uk dance music as an idea to be reverse engineered from Digital Mystikz) better than Timeless does

timeless still >> bst

bst sounds like it was recorded through a cardboard tube

there's like three different mixes of BST, though, right?

or "masterings", whatever

i have two of them, the CDs from 95 and 96. the two of them sound objectively bad. i see they were remastered again in 2008 and 2012. how do the new ones sound? better, i hope.

I haven't been able to find a copy of anyversion for a reasonable price.. Timeless sets such a high bar for terrific production though, imo, i can't really criticize BMT for not sounding so crisp and bright or whatever. I actually kind of like the "murkiness" of BST, it's like there's a light mist falling on everything. I might prefer 28 gun bad boy, dunno if that's a challop or not.

aw jeez @ everyone who doesn't care for "sea of tears" in this thread

i fucking LOVE "sea of tears"

I have hippie type feelings about Inner City Life related to Buddhism and and life/death and the cosmos and stuff

I've always found BMT impenetrable (and it sounds like shit). Timeless gets my vote.

I love taking sides threads like these that foster enthusiasm and good discussion and stuff.

Also, "Finley's rainbow" is so not the best song on BST, that's as abhorrent as saying "frontier psychiatrist" is the best avalanches song