Magic: The Gathering C/D

green is the best color!!

yeah I know that's why I'm afraid I have a subconscious bias, also I think I prob like captain's call a little too much cause I always end up w/ 4. maybe the computers just don't like it enough.

I definitely went in to last night with the idea that I'd be playing either green/red or green/black.

I think there's nothing wrong with going for colors you like so long as you have some decent choices available to you.

I think its more that I misjudge the power of midsized green creatures compared to more obviously good stuff in other colors

I guess I didn't mean bad idea in a 'you're doomed' but more that the marginal gain you'd get from having fewer mana problems is rarely going to be worth playing those last 6 or so subpar cards if you coulda had 6 more playable cards in a 2nd color.

basically this; most cards you play are only going to require a single colored mana, so playing 11 Forests and 6 Mountains or whatever instead of 17 Forests is rarely going to screw you out of playing a lot of spells. that said I've done drafts where one color was super open, it just happens from time to time, especially if you're sitting by a drafter who chooses their colors before the draft even starts

reading your neighbor's cards is tough; I think it's easy to figure out what the two guys to your left are playing based on what you're passing, but sometimes it's tough to figure out whether two packs w/ no good White cards is a sign or a fluke. In AVR this was really hard because so many commons were just unplayable.

the problem with green is that often its creatures just aren't actually much better on-curve than the other colors. Centaur Courser is such an important card to have access to, even though it looks pretty simple, since other colors generally need a 4-drop or even a 5-drop to handle it. having access a 2-drop with deathtouch is pretty important too since if you're in green you'll have less access to hard removal

The two cards I'm trying to figure out most are Mindclaw Shaman and Sands of Delirium. Mindclaw seems like it has the potential to swing games, but I'm always unsure of when to pick it, or when to side it out. If Duress is not very playable due to the possibility of striking out then I wonder how much a 5-drop 2/2 is when it seems much more likely (as they will have had chances to cast their spells by then). Sands I wonder about as a 1st pick; assuming no foil rare (so the pack is all commons and uncommons) would you take anything p1p1 over it? How about p2p1, when you're already in (say) Black, would you take Murder or Vampire Nighthawk over it? Sands just seems so good at winning games that may not be winnable otherwise, as well as giving you the luxury to just say "all I have to do is stay alive for a few turns and I win". I'm not sure if I'd ever pass the thing.

sands is tricky since your deck has to be good enough at stabilizing the board that it can do it with one fewer card, which hasn't been the case a couple of the times i've had it. it's definitely a strong card though in the right deck.

mindclaw is awesome and i pick it pretty high, within red i have it about equivalent to furnace whelp, i.e. worse than spot removal, better than other creatures except for flunkies if you're a beatdown deck. you can side it out vs green-white decks since they don't have as many targets for it

Oh wait, did we not link to this? AV Club did a thing this week:

Revisiting Magic: The Gathering as a grown-up nerd

http://www.avclub.com/articles/revisiting-magic-the-gathering-as-a-grownup-nerd,84662/

http://media.avclub.com/images/413/413016/16x9/627.jpg?4667

yeah I've had a fun time with Sands lately. seem to always get it in my opening hand which is not really optimal. then I had one game that I won on turn 28 (!) because it was the 5th-last card in my deck. was actually DOA the turn before if he had swung with all his flyers but I guess he played it safe not thinking about getting ducked.

my problem with Mindclaw is that you'd never say, side out a Furnace Whelp, so I tend to be careful about taking it too early. I've gotten destroyed by them (one took a Predatory Rampage, barf), and saved (by hitting a Sleep), but it's such a hard one to evaluate. I'll take your word for it.

cool game

otm

great article. i played maybe one game of Magic in my life but it always looked like a blast

Sands I wonder about as a 1st pick; assuming no foil rare (so the pack is all commons and uncommons) would you take anything p1p1 over it? How about p2p1, when you're already in (say) Black, would you take Murder or Vampire Nighthawk over it?

sands is always a 1st pick ime even over flames. p1p2 i might take a card that solidified a bomb 1st pick over it - like arms dealer + krenko or talrand + talrand or something. there are still outs to sands so if i pass it can prioritize them but yeah, i would hate to have to pass it.

i think mindclaw shaman sucks but i dont tend to draft the sort of decks that want it, maybe? i always find myself passing them even really late but that might be a hole in my game. i just dont think its efficient enough to main deck in most of my draft decks

the thing with Sands is that it always seems so much better to draw it on turn 5-6 rather than have it in your opener. But when it comes out, it's usually ridiculous. Like you just have to get them to say 14 cards left w/ 7 mana out and you just pass one turn to win.

Mindclaw would be an awesome card to see statistics on through MTGO or whatever; what % does it hit, and what spells does it usually grab. Because hitting something like Essence Drain, Public Execution, Sleep, Turn to Slag, etc. with it seems like just an insane advantage, not just casting it, but denying your opponent the spell too. Even a glorified Ravenous Rates at 4R doesn't seem horrible. But it would be nice to know how likely you are to grab something.

it seems pretty bad to me. it's worse than duress (a marginal sideboard card), because not only do they have to have a non-creature non-land in their hand, they had to have gotten to turn 5-7 without actually casting it, and not be in a position where they can just respond to the mindclaw shaman with their instant. also it doesn't hit planeswalkers, and there are a large number of instant/sorceries that won't do anything, even if you mindclaw them. the 2/2 body is an upside compared to duress, but it wouldn't be relevant on turn 3, let alone turn 5-7, and it's certainly not worth 4 extra mana. pass.

in limited, those last couple cards in their hand on turn 5 or 6 are much more likely to be removal though, and if you hit with it you win the game a very high % of the time. it's a high-risk high-reward card obviously, and i've had reasonable success with it so far

It's not a Duress any more than Mind Control is Murder, you know?

I kind of wonder how many instants and sorceries regularly get cast on the first 5 turns. I haven't drafted the card enough to really know but as cider says hitting something like a removal spell or a Sleep is basically game over

Mindclaw is a great sideboard card, there's certain decks it's just insane against. Was watching a stream lately where a guy cast it, opponent revealed a hand of Mind Rot + 2 creatures. Those kind of moments are what I live for in Magic.

So psyched for Ravnica 2, and I'll be going with some friends to the Ravnica sealed deck Grand Prix in Philly at the end of October. Anyone here played in those bigger tournaments like Grand Prixes?

The upside is too insane to leave it in your sideboard. Anyway come to think of it I'm pretty bummed this thing was never around in the days of Cruel Control. What a ballbuster.

GP's are fun if you go with a large group, otherwise it's just too many Magic players in a too small space for me. You really have to make a day of it. Maybe I'm biased because I've had bad experiences. I did one where I wound up in a spot where a win would give me top 8 and I wound up playing against a guy who couldn't get top 8, but could get top 16 with a win or split - don't really know the specifics, but I found out from some guys watching the match that he was stalling hardcore for the draw. I was playing Millstone and had him DOA but the game took too long. Another one I go 5-1 with a goofy Nomad Mythmaker deck and get a match loss due to marked sleeves (this was where I learned to always either shuffle your sleeves or your deck before sleeving). The one I did top 8 I had a bad time b/c my last Swiss round guy flipped out when I beat him with a "random Stonewood Invocation" (which was like, my favorite card at the time and I played 4), having to hear him bitch about the "stupid kid that just lucked a victory" from a distance was not fun at all.

have not played a grand prix, had to skip the one here last month because i was in the process of moving and didn't have time to go. honestly, playing 9 rounds of magic in one day sounds like too much to me, i start to feel gross and exhausted after 4 or 5 rounds at the local shop

agreed. my shop will do 5 rounds/top 8 tournaments with 40-some people and after the Swiss portion everyone really just wants to drink. especially the Sealeds with top 8 draft, you wind up really not wanting to draft, which sounds weird now, but trust me

won my draft tonight w/ black/white exalted (again)
I sorta hated my deck but it got the job done

yeah i don't actually like the pure exalted decks much, most of the good exalted creatures die to Chandra's Fury or Cower in Fear so it's easy to set yourself up to get blown out

I seem to get forced into Exalted an awful lot too. War Falcon just seems to table so frequently, and that + Aven Squire or one of the Knights is such a great start, maybe the best in the format.

Did wind up losing to a Fog Bank though. Yep. An 0/2 wall.

I had a pretty good mana curve so a lot of my wins were like, duty bound dead -> white or black exalted knight dude -> one of the many exalted 3 drops. I had no real bombs and only pacifism and murder but the swarm did the job most of the time.

Duty Bound Dead is a great way to start. In constructed play, I'm even more fond of kicking off with Diregraf Ghoul. Adding in Vault of the Archangel helps give the exalted deck some extra backbone once you have a bunch of these small creatures on the board.

If we're talking constructed, is anyone playing Sublime Archangel yet?

I would be if it didn't cost $$$$. Just got beatdown last night by someone playing a bunch of these on MTGO.

i haven't tried it yet, since i generally prefer to go over the top in constructed instead of beating down

I just made a Clock of Omens infinite combo deck that cost a total of $15 and has like 20 rares in it (sadly, it's all rotating out soon)

It's okay, but super fun (the infinite combo almost never happens though)

psst you should set yourself up to play the angel of glory's rise reanimator deck right after rotation, i think everyone's gonna be on zombies out of the gates

One thing I think is funny about M13 is how Fog Bank seems like it was designed as a response to Exalted, because it completely shuts that deck down, but then you have Cripping Blight which almost seems like it was designed as an answer to Fog Bank.

it's almost as if they have a team of like 5-6 people spending months on all these little details for each set! (they do)

yep - I may have mentioned this upthread but the way Think Twice was chosen as an Innistrad reprint because Blue was supposed to be anti-wolf and it could flip werewolves in one shot really blew my mind.

M13 design really was very tight - the combo of Mogg Flunkies and Reckless Brute was definitely intended, but there are also subtle designs too, Merfolk of the Pearl Trident was apparently printed to give blue an answer to Brute, you're supposed to side it in. The way White has several paths for Limited is quite interesting (Exalted, plus a soldier token theme that goes along with Griffin Protector and the double Soul Warden) and unlike core sets in the past. I also love how Tormented Soul was in M12 but filled a totally different purpose there. Design/development has really been knocking them out of the park lately.

yeah 'back in the day' I don't remember limited play being so balanced and well thought out. there really isn't a weak color in m13 limited (red seems like it comes closest?)

I esp remember blue and white being hard to draft, cause they were just always playing from behind

i guess it depends when you were playing. Invasion was the first fun and balanced limited set, everything before it was pretty miserable for limited (seriously, urza's saga had Pestilence at COMMON. what the fuck)

Invasion was incredible! That was really a new era of Magic design. That said I have to defend Urza's block a bit, it really was a great format in spite of Pestilence, though that was the first and only card I've ever thought should be banned in Limited

I was playing pre-urzas, so I drafted a lot of mirage and tempest block

yeah i think those are both better than urza's and masques but worse than anything invasion-onwards, at least in terms of design and balance

actually i'd probably rather play tempest limited than zendikar or AVR

any set where a third of the white commons are circle of protections is lame

I have a habit of collecting unopened boxes - when I win prizes for drafts I used to save them for "home drafting", but I'd never do that, so I'd just save up to 36 and trade 'em all in for a box, hoping it would have some trade value later. Today the store owner told me that for the final set of this block he wanted to do a prerelease that included Ravnica/Guildpact/Dissension and that he was willing to buy my boxes (I have one of each). Combined price is over a grand right now! How did this happen!? I'm thinking of just saying 800 flat (as this is already a windfall for me) but when did these actually begin to accumulate value? The Rav box is 400 - even if shocks weren't coming back, it's near impossible to pull that much value out of 36 packs. You'd need 2 Dark Confidants and like 10 shocks to get close.

I'd say it's due to being one of the most universally acclaimed limited formats of all time, plus age and being out of print, plus nostalgia from Return to Ravnica.

Yeah, it must be all about draft value. Several years ago, I went on a small buying spree to catch up on the years of sets I had skipped, and a starter box of Invasion was a sizable amount less per card than a booster box. Makes sense when you think about it.

Ajani, Caller of the Pride 1.40
Primordial Hydra 1.49
Jace, Memory Adept 1.54
Chandra, the Firebrand 1.56
Garruk, Primal Hunter 1.60
Sublime Archangel 1.67
Odric, Master Tactician 1.69
Thragtusk 1.70
Liliana of the Dark Realms 1.73
Thundermaw Hellkite 1.78
Captain of the Watch 1.82
Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis 1.82
Sphinx of Uthuun 1.86
Akroma's Memorial 1.88
Stuffy Doll 1.90
Staff of Nin 1.92
Elderscale Wurm 2.01
Talrand, Sky Summoner 2.11
Krenko, Mob Boss 2.13
Serra Avenger 2.17
Silklash Spider 2.18
Yeva, Nature's Herald 2.19
Xathrid Gorgon 2.23
Rancor 2.27
Clone 2.36
Cathedral of War 2.38
Oblivion Ring 2.38
Intrepid Hero 2.40
Vampire Nighthawk 2.41
Sands of Delirium 2.54
Disciple of Bolas 2.54
Vampire Nocturnus 2.60
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker 2.60
Predatory Rampage 2.64
Shimian Specter 2.64
Mutilate 2.70
Serra Angel 2.75
Magmaquake 2.89
Firewing Phoenix 2.90
Stormtide Leviathan 2.90
Rhox Faithmender 2.92
Talrand's Invocation 2.94
Serra Avatar 2.97
Quirion Dryad 2.97
Slumbering Dragon 2.98
Void Stalker 2.99
Knight of Glory 3.01
Gilded Lotus 3.17
Murder 3.19
Trading Post 3.19
Knight of Infamy 3.31
Garruk's Packleader 3.59
Aven Squire 3.60
Elvish Archdruid 3.60
Flames of the Firebrand 3.63
Pacifism 3.75
Sleep 3.77
Planar Cleansing 3.87
Attended Knight 3.92
Redirect 3.94
Acidic Slime 4.02
Hamletback Goliath 4.03
Phylactery Lich 4.08
Searing Spear 4.12
Sentinel Spider 4.12
Reverberate 4.17
Arctic Aven 4.22
Fog Bank 4.26
Volcanic Geyser 4.35
Crusader of Odric 4.42
Switcheroo 4.46
Duskdale Wurm 4.51
Hellion Crucible 4.53
Public Execution 4.53
Spelltwine 4.73
Arbor Elf 4.73
Master of the Pearl Trident 4.75
Healer of the Pride 4.78
Deadly Recluse 4.78
Rise from the Grave 4.80
Roaring Primadox 4.83
Fervor 4.83
Giant Scorpion 4.95
Faith's Reward 4.96
Elvish Visionary 4.98
Duskmantle Prowler 5.00
Angelic Benediction 5.12
Arms Dealer 5.18
War Priest of Thune 5.35
Augur of Bolas 5.38
Divination 5.38
Glacial Fortress 5.49
Jace's Phantasm 5.51
Drowned Catacomb 5.54
Dragonskull Summit 5.60
Rootbound Crag 5.64
Ajani's Sunstriker 5.65
Servant of Nefarox 5.69
Primal Huntbeast 5.70
Mwonvuli Beast Tracker 5.71
Wind Drake 5.73
Sunpetal Grove 5.75
Harbor Bandit 5.75
Guardians of Akrasa 5.76
Divine Verdict 5.78
Bloodhunter Bat 5.80
Welkin Tern 5.82
Captain's Call 5.83
Bladetusk Boar 5.83
Chronomaton 5.86
Duty-Bound Dead 5.93
Primal Clay 5.96
Ring of Xathrid 6.12
Furnace Whelp 6.17
Essence Scatter 6.20
Griffin Protector 6.24
Prized Elephant 6.25
Elixir of Immortality 6.25
Faerie Invaders 6.29
Krenko's Command 6.30
Mark of Mutiny 6.30
Scroll Thief 6.35
Cower in Fear 6.38
Ring of Thune 6.39
Flinthoof Boar 6.40
Sign in Blood 6.47
Farseek 6.47
Turn to Slag 6.48
Rewind 6.49
Tormented Soul 6.50
Evolving Wilds 6.50
Essence Drain 6.51
Goblin Arsonist 6.57
Ring of Kalonia 6.58
Kitesail 6.70
Timberpack Wolf 6.76
Unsummon 6.83
Negate 6.87
Prey Upon 6.90
Ravenous Rats 6.93
Centaur Courser 6.99
Mind Rot 7.01
Ring of Evos Isle 7.02
Duress 7.03
Diabolic Revelation 7.07
Ring of Valkas 7.13
Archaeomancer 7.26
Titanic Growth 7.30
Crimson Muckwader 7.35
Mogg Flunkies 7.37
Mindclaw Shaman 7.39
Plummet 7.43
Spiked Baloth 7.43
Safe Passage 7.45
Mind Sculpt 7.45
Walking Corpse 7.46
Encrust 7.47
Bloodthrone Vampire 7.61
Yeva's Forcemage 7.63
Silvercoat Lion 7.77
Fungal Sprouting 7.89
Dark Favor 8.02
Mark of the Vampire 8.08
Divine Favor 8.15
Worldfire 8.16
Fog 8.20
Courtly Provocateur 8.27
Warclamp Mastiff 8.39
Vedalken Entrancer 8.43
Harbor Serpent 8.57
Omniscience 8.57
Volcanic Strength 8.63
Liliana's Shade 8.64
Bond Beetle 8.65
Kraken Hatchling 8.67
Disentomb 8.69
Chandra's Fury 8.70
Vastwood Gorger 8.70
Naturalize 8.73
Canyon Minotaur 8.76
Battleflight Eagle 8.86
Tricks of the Trade 8.91
Jayemdae Tome 8.94
Blood Reckoning 9.05
War Falcon 9.08
Phyrexian Hulk 9.10
Downpour 9.12
Rain of Blades 9.16
Dragon Hatchling 9.23
Crippling Blight 9.33
Torch Fiend 9.38
Vile Rebirth 9.40
Revive 9.40
Fire Elemental 9.41
Rummaging Goblin 9.44
Boundless Realms 9.46
Veilborn Ghoul 9.54
Ranger's Path 9.80
Ground Seal 9.86
Touch of the Eternal 9.89
Gem of Becoming 9.93
Reckless Brute 10.00
Show of Valor 10.04
Watercourser 10.11
Cleaver Riot 10.11
Index 10.13
Wall of Fire 10.24
Reliquary Tower 10.25
Wit's End 10.26
Goblin Battle Jester 10.27
Glorious Charge 10.35
Merfolk of the Pearl Trident 10.45
Zombie Goliath 10.52
Kindled Fury 10.79
Trumpet Blast 10.86
Door to Nothingness 11.03
Guardian Lions 11.06
Pillarfield Ox 11.07
Tormod's Crypt 11.10
Wild Guess 11.13
Angel's Mercy 11.21
Erase 11.21
Serpent's Gift 11.24
Hydrosurge 11.59
Smelt 11.99
Bountiful Harvest 12.03
Battle of Wits 12.10
Craterize 12.10
Clock of Omens 12.58
Forest 12.85
Plains 12.89
Mountain 13.01
Island 13.20
Swamp 13.65

that's an 'average pick #' from the draft sim site I found and have been playing around w/ today. it seems fairly accurate in the 'you'd almost always pick the highest ranked card of your color/s' way. what cards on this list do you guys disagree most w/, ranking-wise?

theres a lot of raredrafting bias on that it seems - for example in black liliana is worse than xathrid gorgon, nefarox, mutilate, and vampire nighthawk

staff of nin should be #1 on the list without considering card prices because its a top 5 card in the set and is colorless

this is really tough to judge, as $ concerns obviously cloud some of this (for example Master of the Pearl Trident being at above 5 when it's basically useless in Limited)

anyway, I think Arms Dealer is ranked way too low (it's a 1st-2nd pick IMO), Deadly Recluse is also something you want to snap up quick, though there are a lot of good green commons.

also feel that Wind Drake is too high, War Falcon too low