Dale Peck's essay on DFW, not to far from Ellis's, has a lot of points I agree with.
― Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Thursday, 6 September 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
would honestly rather reread glamorama than broom of the system.
Even as a huge DFW fan, I agree with this because Glamorama is the better (or at least more entertaining) of the two. That said, Ben Stiller never had to settle out of court for coming up with the same story idea as DFW, so I think those Ellis tweets reveal some literary sour grapes.
― This Whole Fridge Is Full Of (Old Lunch), Thursday, 6 September 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
xpost - That said, his tweets have as much projection in them as the average blurb. (Would be easy for Ellis to describe himself with all of those tweets, on a bad day.)
― Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Thursday, 6 September 2012 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
BEE is a troll
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 6 September 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
BEE sounds so painfully just not very smart in those tweets. I mean those zings pretty much SUCK.
― look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Thursday, 6 September 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
I mean you are a PROFESSIONAL WRITER, dude, and you can't even come up with anything better to sling than poorly expressed cliches
― look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Thursday, 6 September 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
according to prof. whiney they don't suck...because they are zings
― we don't wanna miss a THING!!! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 6 September 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
but yeah OTM. dude has no insight or critique, just take shots at the more successful dead guy. what a hack
as for the dt max excerpt, yeah, something rings false and hollow about it, like the dude is just trying to write the All American Story instead of DFW's story.
― look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Thursday, 6 September 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
I h8 BEE
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 6 September 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
I don't really like DFW but BEE writes stuff for stunted americans imo
(I haven't read any tho)
I'm a bigger fan of Ellis (at least if we quantify it in terms of #s of books read) than Wallace, and/but I'm curious about the "more successful" thing. Has Infinite Jest (cause let's be honest it towers over everything else DFW released, in terms of public awareness beyond lit circles) really outsold the combo of Less Than Zero and American Psycho? I mean, if we're talking about generating-income-from-one's-writing, I think Ellis wins; he's never had to take a teaching job, has probably spent a significant portion of the last few decades living off royalties from adapted screenplays, etc. Of course, if "more successful" takes into account critical love and lit-circle sainthood, then yeah, DFW stomps him into the dirt.
― 誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 6 September 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
― look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Thursday, September 6, 2012 11:42 AM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark
yeah there have been so many pointed and stinging critiques of the guy's writing at this point that just repeating the word "pretentious" is so toothless
― IN REAL LIFE (some dude), Thursday, 6 September 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
xxpost
Not unlike John Grisham's ribald space operas for stunted Americans. At least that's what I assume he writes, based solely on having seen one of his books misshelved in the erotic sci-fi section that one time.
― This Whole Fridge Is Full Of (Old Lunch), Thursday, 6 September 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
btw the thing I like most about dfw is this part of some article I read once where a fawning interviewer is just so crushed, just seemingly almost in tears because he walks into a room to interview dfw and the dude is sitting on a couch eating kfc and watching the x files
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 6 September 2012 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
it reminded me of that time when jodorowsky actually cried because he wanted pink floyd to score dune and he revered them so much and when he walked into a room they were dudes just sitting around eating fish and chips
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 6 September 2012 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
and the old "people just like him to feel smart" canard -- you can just as easily throw that at ANY literary author, hell, at the entire idea of "literary authors."
― look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Thursday, 6 September 2012 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
he walks into a room to interview dfw and the dude is sitting on a couch eating kfc and watching the x files
this = a reason for love
― j., Thursday, 6 September 2012 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
To turn the end of Wallace's Updike review into a posthumous BEE zing, Erect or flaccid, Ben Turnbull's BEE's unhappiness is obvious right from the book's first page first tweet. But it never once occurs to him that the reason he's so unhappy is that he's an asshole.
― ❀ the cult of ➥upside➥wingspan➥personal growth gurus➥FA charlatans (CompuPost), Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
Love that review.
― "Pffft" --buddha (silby), Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
We are paying attention to the opinions of Brett Easton Ellis now?! When did this misfortune befall?
― Aimless, Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
Here's the opening of Dale Peck's Infinite Jest review:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v18/n14/dale-peck/well-duh
The US literary world can be divided into two camps: those who think Thomas Pynchon is a very clever guy, and those who also think he’s a great writer.
― Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:46 (eleven years ago) link
Dale Peck is an idiot, though
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
Peck knows what he wants and he wants recognizable human characters, which is a legitimate desire. His ability to recognize human characters seems to be limited by how closely they resemble people or fictional characters already familiar to him. This makes him not an idiot, but not an ideal reviewer of books like Infinite Jest.
― Aimless, Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:57 (eleven years ago) link
dale peck, internet nobody
the myth of foster wallace is p gross to me but ellis is just bringing nothing in those zings
― Lamp, Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
I haven't read Infinite Jest but that review and all the things it resents makes me wanna read it more
― This Is... The Police (dog latin), Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
agreed.
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 6 September 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
300 pages of it are really good and the rest is good for arguing with people about
― adam, Thursday, 6 September 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
I think back wistfully to a time when I enjoyed DFW and never saw/heard anyone talking about him outside of, like, newsgroups.
(Eternal thanks to erstwhile(?) ILXor D. Wolk for introducing me to the dude via his review of Supposedly Fun Thing... in CMJ.)
― This Whole Fridge Is Full Of (Old Lunch), Thursday, 6 September 2012 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
ellis has been like this all his life: 'american psycho' is basically one long troll of whoever's reading it.
judging from the first few paragraphs of that review dale peck is even dumber than that 'reader's manifesto' guy.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 6 September 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
but b r myers is pretty cool and often right
― adam, Thursday, 6 September 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
I read a BEE book once and all I can remember is something something colombian foot soldiers
― USADA Bin Dopen (dayo), Thursday, 6 September 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
no wait that was jay mcierneyerrerer
sorry BEE I didn't mean to tarnish you by association
I almost took a McInerney book out of the library the other day but then I flipped it open to a random page and read a sentence and was permanently cured of the impulse to ever read anything of his ever again.
― 誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 6 September 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
McInerney's pretty good at wine writing and Ellis is pretty good at tweeting.
― Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
Wallace is pretty good at jamming and Baker is pretty great at thinking as dramatic action.
― Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:02 (eleven years ago) link
pretty sure Ellis has never had a website like this dedicated to one of his novels, same goes for Dale Peck
http://infiniteatlas.com/
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:03 (eleven years ago) link
Degree of obsessive fan devotion is a 100% reliable sign of quality. See: the Grateful Dead, Amanda Palmer, Star Wars.
― 誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
i'm just saying the guy has made a significant cultural impact.
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
Degree of obsessive fan devotion is a 100% reliable sign of quality.
Agree 100%, problem is, I think BEE wishes he had the impact DFW does
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:07 (eleven years ago) link
Um, Less Than Zero and American Psycho didn't have a cultural impact?
― Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
In May 2011, Peck's criticism of Jewish-American literature in which he claimed "(I)f I have to read another book about the Holocaust, I’ll kill a Jew myself" prompted a public outcry. His editors later removed the statement from his article.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
they do a little bit, sure! not nearly the impact that DFW does--those tweets BEE made reek of desperation
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
and anyone who shits on the dead like that does not deserve to be taken seriously
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
ellis is soooo jelly of dfw's cult
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
I do not knwo who he is and I am not going to google it
― Brony 4 Life (Latham Green), Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
bee is gross and sad. still like lunar park.
― i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Thursday, 6 September 2012 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
as literature they're toilet paper, plenty of crappy literature has had some impact just by virtue of being widely read. I haven't read IJ & probably never will but I like DFW's short work, he's capable of thinking a problem through. BEE wouldn't know what to do with an idea if one ever occurred to him.
― we don't wanna miss a THING!!! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 6 September 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link