Only one vote for Paavoharju?
― M.V., Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:20 AM
I just got back from vacation, so missed most of the discussion. I'm surprised I'm the only one who voted for it. I thought it was kind of popular around here.
― Fastnbulbous, Sunday, 25 January 2009 16:52 (fifteen years ago) link
Following up on Matos's point about the differences between Idolator and P&J, I did some number-crunching with the 2006 polls to see which albums were disproportionately favored on each poll. Of the eight albums that got >50% more points on P&J (after weighting for the discrepancy of total voters), six were by artists over the age of 50.
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Sunday, 25 January 2009 16:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Okay, well, it's obviously impossible to miss the difference with those stats. But that was two years ago, and assuming I'm eyeballing the results accurately, the P&J's geezer-leaning problem seems to have self-corrected since. A younger, bloggier Idolator electorate might have pushed Gang Gang Dance and Jeezy and maybe Blitzen Trapper or the Vivian Girls or Ne-Yo into the Top 40, and pushed Fucked Up up several spaces, but it would have been at the expense of who? Escovedo, obviously. And maybe Metallica, Walkmen, Kings of Leon, Byrne/Eno, even Drive By Truckers. Wouldn't have helped Al Green, either. (Jamey Johnson? Taylor Swift? I dunno.) Not sure if that's an improvement or not.
― xhuxk, Sunday, 25 January 2009 17:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Metallica, Walkmen, Kings of Leon, Byrne/Eno
Okay, these do like dead weight, I admit. (As does R.E.M. way up at #25, and a lot of the aging indie standbys between 41-50: Beck, Malkmus, Magnetic Fields.) And I bet the Idolator electorate would push up T.I. and Torche (though maybe not Roots or Q-Tip) too. So I guess that's a little better.
― xhuxk, Sunday, 25 January 2009 17:39 (fifteen years ago) link
"do look like dead weight"
― xhuxk, Sunday, 25 January 2009 17:40 (fifteen years ago) link
Not directed to anyone in particular, just as a general thought, but as said upthread, there's always the possibility that a large number of P&J voters don't really care about it very much and dash their ballots off quickly to be sure to get it done on time. Sure, on one hand it's lazy, to scan some lists of big records this year and slap something together. But maybe writers feel that the 50,000 or 100,000 or however many words they've written through the year are more important and meaningful than contributing a top 10 to P&J.
I guess what I'm saying is, it seems like there's an assumption by some that voters define themselves as critics by what they submit to P&J. It's not necessarily important to everyone involved that these lists are "accurate" or "interesting" or what have you. If you want to know what Jon Caramanica thought about rap in 2008, you could read some of his pieces rather than drawing conclusions based on his P&J ballot.
And, like Glenn says as far as expanding the album list to 20, I think there are quite a few albums that: 1) tons of critics agree are good; and 2) despite the agreement that these album are good, not one of said critics thinks the album was one of the 10 best of the year. And those albums wind up with 0 votes.
― Mark, Sunday, 25 January 2009 17:43 (fifteen years ago) link
oh boy, room for even more mid-level indie acts. just what the poll needs.
― Keep The Dogs Away (Ioannis), Sunday, 25 January 2009 17:59 (fifteen years ago) link
How many UK critics get a vote in P&J?
― the worst poster on ilx fwiw (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 25 January 2009 18:06 (fifteen years ago) link
other than Simon...maybe zero?
― Keep The Dogs Away (Ioannis), Sunday, 25 January 2009 18:08 (fifteen years ago) link
Oh so it's just USA & Canada? I didn't realise that. I thought with the internet that there would be writers from all over the place.
― the worst poster on ilx fwiw (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 25 January 2009 18:17 (fifteen years ago) link
It started as American but has expanded a tad. As noted upthread, there are some Canadians, there's Tim Finney from Australia, and I saw a comment from someone in Germany.
Writers from everywhere have to contact the P & J editor and tell them who they write for, to get included. Many folks have not done that.
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 25 January 2009 18:28 (fifteen years ago) link
Only one vote for Paavoharju?― M.V., Thursday, January 22, 2009 11:20 AMI just got back from vacation, so missed most of the discussion. I'm surprised I'm the only one who voted for it. I thought it was kind of popular around here.
Not only that, it showed up in a few end-of-year lists, I think.
― M.V., Sunday, 25 January 2009 18:37 (fifteen years ago) link
found two 50%+-country album ballots (at least if alt-country counts); suspect there might be more:
Randy Lewis
http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2008/685482
Bobby Reed
http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2008/685428
― xhuxk, Sunday, 25 January 2009 18:57 (fifteen years ago) link
man i will defend the heck out of some lucinda, but the best thing i can say about little honey is that it's better than the last two.
― paper plans (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 25 January 2009 19:06 (fifteen years ago) link
Not heard Little Honey yet. Need to rectify that.
― the worst poster on ilx fwiw (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 25 January 2009 19:22 (fifteen years ago) link
West turned out to be a pretty great record once i got over my initial "what the fuck is wrong with you, Lucinda? are you really trying to annoy me unto death by way of obnoxiously overwrought vocalisms?!!" reaction. took a while, granted.
― Keep The Dogs Away (Ioannis), Sunday, 25 January 2009 19:32 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm gonna skip it.
I accidentally left the exclamation mark off of my singles vote for Los Campesinos, "DEATH TO LOS CAMPESINOS" so it is not showing up with Christgau and the other voters for that song.
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 25 January 2009 19:33 (fifteen years ago) link
think there are quite a few albums that: 1) tons of critics agree are good; and 2) despite the agreement that these album are good, not one of said critics thinks the album was one of the 10 best of the year. And those albums wind up with 0 votes.
I always assumed that this was mostly offset by the size of P&J, i.e. if you poll enough people, then you're bound to find *some* critics who will like those albums enough to put them in their top ten. Conversely, if you poll a much smaller number of people (Pitchfork, for example, or virtually any website/mag with maybe a few dozen writers on staff) then everybody needs to submit a larger list (e.g. top 25 at least) to have those great-but-nobody's-favourite albums represented in the poll.
But with longer lists, actual rankings, as opposed to just "mentions", really start to matter -- I'm infinitely more likely to check out an album that was ranked #1 by five people than an album that was ranked #18 by twenty people. This is why I'm surprised that so many people on this thread would prefer un-ranked lists (and is the reason why I always take care to favourably weight the top few albums on my P&J ballot.)
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 25 January 2009 20:37 (fifteen years ago) link
not one of said critics thinks the album was one of the 10 best of the year. And those albums wind up with 0 votes...I always assumed that this was mostly offset by the size of P&J
Not if you are Katy Perry, apparently.
― xhuxk, Sunday, 25 January 2009 21:03 (fifteen years ago) link
OK, one more stat thing. I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but having calculated Voter Centricity, I can then turn around and retabulate the whole poll weighting votes by centricity. Or, for more amusement, inversely weighting by centricity. I.e., the farther from consensus a voter was, the more their votes were worth. Comparing these weighted scores as percentages of the albums' vote-counts then gives us a measure not of popularity but of cultishness! Ignore the albums that got very few votes (5 or fewer, for example) and this starts getting pretty interesting.
Most Cultish AlbumsCultishness Rank - Cultishness - Normal Rank - Votes - Artist - Album
1 - 0.942 - 143 - 7 - Amanda Palmer - Who Killed Amanda Palmer2 - 0.927 - 166 - 6 - Enslaved - Vertebrae3 - 0.893 - 166 - 6 - Rodriguez - Cold Fact4 - 0.873 - 143 - 7 - Brian Wilson - That Lucky Old Sun4 - 0.873 - 143 - 7 - Sic Alps - U.S. EZ6 - 0.859 - 143 - 7 - AC/DC - Black Ice7 - 0.857 - 143 - 7 - Rodney Crowell - Sex and Gasoline8 - 0.852 - 115 - 9 - Opeth - Watershed9 - 0.85 - 128 - 8 - Joe Jackson - Rain10 - 0.847 - 143 - 7 - Sloan - Parallel Play Least Cultish Albums
191 - 0.507 - 1 - 154 - TV on the Radio - Dear Science190 - 0.536 - 2 - 105 - Vampire Weekend - Vampire Weekend189 - 0.549 - 105 - 10 - Laura Marling - Alas I Cannot Swim188 - 0.557 - 82 - 12 - Robyn - Robyn187 - 0.558 - 7 - 78 - Lil Wayne - Tha Carter III186 - 0.561 - 128 - 8 - Okkervil River - Stand Ins185 - 0.563 - 8 - 73 - Bon Iver - For Emma, Forever Ago184 - 0.564 - 62 - 15 - Conor Oberst - Conor Oberst183 - 0.566 - 6 - 79 - Santogold - Santogold182 - 0.567 - 4 - 87 - Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes
The full list is at http://www.furia.com/all-idols/2008/kvltosis.html
― glenn mcdonald, Sunday, 25 January 2009 21:06 (fifteen years ago) link
9 - 0.85 - 128 - 8 - Joe Jackson - Rain
A Joe Jackson album got 8 votes in 2008??? Wacky!
― xhuxk, Sunday, 25 January 2009 21:11 (fifteen years ago) link
oh cultish albums ...
― the worst poster on ilx fwiw (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 25 January 2009 21:15 (fifteen years ago) link
could someone post the most TRV KVLT albums that made the list?
― crackers is biters (M@tt He1ges0n), Sunday, 25 January 2009 21:17 (fifteen years ago) link
haha
― the worst poster on ilx fwiw (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 25 January 2009 21:20 (fifteen years ago) link
Glenn posted more stats on the metal poll thread btw m@tt
― the worst poster on ilx fwiw (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 25 January 2009 21:21 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm infinitely more likely to check out an album that was ranked #1 by five people than an album that was ranked #18 by twenty people.
It's a given that the poll has peoples' #1 ranked albums covered, and there are no surprises. I'm much more interested in learning what album twenty people would have ranked #18, especially if it's something I might not have previously noticed. I don't understand why everyone else wouldn't be interested either, unless they actually believe there can't be more than 10 great albums in a given year.
― Fastnbulbous, Sunday, 25 January 2009 23:27 (fifteen years ago) link
Marcello's 10 cd's a year man!
― the worst poster on ilx fwiw (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 25 January 2009 23:29 (fifteen years ago) link
you know, I JUST NOW heard fleet foxes for the first time! via a dvr recording of that SNL episode! and they're like lukewarm milk: harmless, pleasant, boring.
― Beatrix Kiddo, Monday, 26 January 2009 00:27 (fifteen years ago) link
try having it shoved down your throat for a year. (sorry, I just heard the damn thing all the time in Seattle and my initial whatever about them soured over time.)
― Matos W.K., Monday, 26 January 2009 00:28 (fifteen years ago) link
Fleet Foxes are apparently Paul Weller's favourite American band of the moment.
― the worst poster on ilx fwiw (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 26 January 2009 00:31 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm an Idolator poll defender at heart (boycotted P&J the year the VV laid me off), but I'm still curious to hear Matos spell out how he thinks an Idolator poll would have shaken out differently this year; was the way I broke it down above way off?
Also, I have to admit, this is bugging me a little:
the Web-generation schism is showing... TV on the Radio and LCD Soundsystem were easy victories in I.P. and by noses in P&J...I imagine if I'd done it a couple more years those differences would show more clearly over time
Is it really good that TVOTR and LCD won more decisively in Idolator? If the big difference is the web-to-print ratio of critics in the polls, wouldn't decisive victories (especially by records that, to me, really aren't all that great -- though that's just me) mainly be indicative of the echo-chamber effect of blog opinions? Which Matos is saying would increase as time went on? I'm not sure I'd want that.
― xhuxk, Monday, 26 January 2009 13:11 (fifteen years ago) link
no offense, guys, but the real "big difference" was that Modern Times won the 2006 p&j albums poll.
― Keep The Dogs Away (Ioannis), Monday, 26 January 2009 13:51 (fifteen years ago) link
It all depends on which additional voters you try to add and agree to vote. Adding more bloggers could skew the indie-rock vote upward but it might also skew the dance/techno whatever you want to call it votes upward. Depending on how you did it you could also end up with more backpacker/underground hiphop supporters as opposed to more ilx ringtone thread rap types. Or maybe both. Should more UK writers for all genres submit their names? I know there are folks who write about African music for the Beat, fRoots, Global Rhythms and blogs who have not participated in P & J. Chuck whould would you like to see added? All of the 74 contributors to the Nashville Scene country poll. The Poptimist LiveJournal folks? More metal mag writers?
Matos sent out over a 1,000 invitations for the Idolator poll and less than half responded. If the Voice greatly increased their mailings for next year would they have slightly more success because they've been doing a poll longer and because of the "Village Voice's" larger name and visibility.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 26 January 2009 14:22 (fifteen years ago) link
Obviously adding any working critics who might counter the stupid indie-rock hegemony -- ones who wouldn't make the imbalance worse than it already is -- would be smart. But again, right, for the four-thousandth time, Xgau and I tried expanding the electorate in that direction for years (with far more success than either poll has seen later); Matos tried it; I don't doubt that Harvilla has tried it as well. Doesn't mean they'll vote.
― xhuxk, Monday, 26 January 2009 14:31 (fifteen years ago) link
And at this point, to be honest, the idea that adding a few techno or hip-hop voters here, a few metal or world voters there, would add up to enough of a consensus in any direction to break indie's hold on the poll seems pretty much like a pipe dream to me. It's not like critics within any of those genres all agree on a year's best records to begin with, right? And with the few exceptions I mentioned above, I don't see many records whose votes would have been significantly boosted even if the voting rolls had been expanded like they should be.
― xhuxk, Monday, 26 January 2009 14:53 (fifteen years ago) link
Chuck, why do you insist on reading some kind of taste agenda into what I said about those victories? I'm honestly curious. Especially when I explicitly didn't say it was good or bad; I said it happened.
If the big difference is the web-to-print ratio of critics in the polls, wouldn't decisive victories (especially by records that, to me, really aren't all that great -- though that's just me) mainly be indicative of the echo-chamber effect of blog opinions? Which Matos is saying would increase as time went on? I'm not sure I'd want that.
When was Pazz & Jop not an echo chamber? If blog critics listen to each other more than non-blog ones, why did TV on the Radio landslide this year? Because there were more bloggers voting in P&J? (Maybe there were--I have no idea.) It got 150% of the runner-up's mentions. That seems pretty echo-chambery to me. That's the nature of these things, whoever is hosting them.
― Matos W.K., Monday, 26 January 2009 15:08 (fifteen years ago) link
Moving down someone's list, you're more likely to find a token choice from a genre they wouldn't normally listen to, or a hype bandwagon choice, or something they sort of liked but not really, or any number of other sub-categories that fall under the umbrella of "music that the critic probably won't be listening to in six months time." The poll's results are weakened if they're too strongly influenced by those downballot choices that the critics don't care too strongly about -- to me, the whole idea of a poll is to survey a large number of people about their absolute favourites. What about the tokenism backlash for Arrested Development and Outkast's (for SB/TLB) wins in their respective years, despite a low avg number of points/ballot?
To be clear -- I'm *not* saying that everybody should make predictable choices or that longer, *individual* lists aren't interesting (just the opposite, they're extremely interesting!), but I feel that longer lists in the context of a large poll with 500+ ballots will simply water down the results.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Monday, 26 January 2009 15:16 (fifteen years ago) link
why do you insist on reading some kind of taste agenda into what I said about those victories?
I don't, Michaelangelo, not at all. In fact, I know you don't have such an agenda, which is why I was trying to get the bottom of what else you think those decisive LCD/ TVOTR victories might signify; you're the one who connected them with the web schism, though maybe I misinterpreted that. All I'm saying is that "decisive victories" and "echo chamber" go hand-in-hand (right, in the case of this year's P&J, too), and I don't necessasrily think that's a positive thing. Didn't mean to imply you thought otherwise, though I'm curious what you do think. (Above, you connected this year's P&J's results to the "web-generation schism" and said P&J singles tastes were rock-entrenched, which seems to me naturally begs a question; I'm just trying to find out how you think the results might have turned out differently with a less entrenched voter group.)
― xhuxk, Monday, 26 January 2009 15:21 (fifteen years ago) link
And at this point, to be honest, the idea that adding a few techno or hip-hop voters here, a few metal or world voters there, would add up to enough of a consensus in any direction to break indie's hold on the poll seems pretty much like a pipe dream to me. It's not like critics within any of those genres all agree on a year's best records to begin with, right?
It would not break the indie hold but I think it would still be good to have larger subgroups than currently exist. My pipedream is just to get editors at genral interest publications to recognize that they should ocassionally cover non-indie music. Whether such editors would look down to the bottom fringes of future P & J polls and see the non-indie stuff I don't know, but at least it would be there .
― curmudgeon, Monday, 26 January 2009 15:52 (fifteen years ago) link
Consensus is dull. Adding more voters isn't going to make the consensus any less dull. Adding more albums per voter isn't going to make the consensus any less dull. But both things could make the whole poll more interesting by providing more patterns that can be extracted by analysis. Demographic and genre information would also facilitate more analysis, even including the easy kind you don't need me to do.
But of these four things, one is way hard (getting more voters), one is hard and contentious (getting consistent demographic info), one is a little hard and a little controversial (genre info) and one is fairly easy (more slots per ballot), and even just the last one would give me more data to work with.
For another example of what I can do with more data, here's the poll retabulated to include only the 47 voters who by my count voted for at least 3 rap albums. My list of what's rap and what isn't comes from the voting in the hiphopcritic.com poll, plus a handful of additional artists I looked up and flagged after checking the ballots of people who voted for the first set:
28 - Lil Wayne - Tha Carter III20 - Q-Tip - Renaissance19 - Erykah Badu - New Amerykah, Pt. 1: 4th World War17 - Kanye West - 808s and Heartbreak15 - TV on the Radio - Dear Science12 - T.I. - Paper Trail10 - Roots - Rising Down10 - Young Jeezy - Recession9 - Nas - Untitled7 - Portishead - Third7 - Santogold - Santogold7 - Vampire Weekend - Vampire Weekend6 - Flying Lotus - Los Angeles6 - Ne-Yo - Year of the Gentleman5 - Adele - 195 - Black Milk - Tronic5 - Coldplay - Viva La Vida, or Death and All His Friends5 - Estelle - Shine5 - Foreign Exchange - Leave It All Behind5 - Hold Steady - Stay Positive4 - Bon Iver - For Emma, Forever Ago4 - Cool Kids - Bake Sale4 - Gaslight Anthem - '59 Sound4 - Girl Talk - Feed the Animals4 - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - Dig!!! Lazarus Dig!!!4 - Scarface - Emeritus4 - Solange Knowles - Sol-Angel and the Hadley St. Dreams4 - The-Dream - Love/Hate3 - Atmosphere - When Life Gives You Lemons, You Paint That Shit Gold3 - Bun B - II Trill3 - Drive-By Truckers - Brighter Than Creation's Dark3 - Guilty Simpson - Ode to the Ghetto3 - Hercules and Love Affair - Hercules and Love Affair3 - Jazmine Sullivan - Fearless (Jazmine Sullivan)3 - Jazzanova - Of All the Things3 - Ludacris - Theater of the Mind3 - Murs - Murs for President3 - Nine Inch Nails - Slip3 - Raphael Saadiq - Way I See It3 - Steinski - What Does It All Mean? 1983-2006 Retrospective3 - Taylor Swift - Fearless3 - Usher - Here I Stand3 - Wale - Mixtape About Nothing3 - Z-Ro - Crack
― glenn mcdonald, Monday, 26 January 2009 15:56 (fifteen years ago) link
xpost to Chuck:
I don't know how this year's would have turned out--I really didn't pay any attention to how which albums were doing with critics generally, though obviously I know what certain people thought of certain things. I knew I wasn't in the race this year and I was fine with that.
I think LCD and TVOTR's victories just signified younger fan bases; in fact (as was pointed out, which I wish I'd remembered to write the first time, since I'd intended to), the younger skewing is why Dylan finished sixth in I.P. (and first in P&J). In my '07 essay I talked about how I was prepared for a dogfight and it never came; then P&J came out with the Top 3 knotted close together. So my prediction had some substance, just for the other poll. Idolator had a lot of the voters were bloggers who'd never voted in P&J, and I think more of them vote for singles, and I think that boosted "Umbrella."
I think an echo chamber is inevitable; it's human nature, and I agree and disagree with it, but I don't feel like there's much I can do about it. So having an opinion about it seems kind of pointless to me, unless it's about specific instances where I agree with it or don't. As far as the singles tastes of P&J voters being "rock-entrenched," I should have just said what I meant, which is that old people voted for "Rehab" because it sounded like an old record and young people voted for "Umbrella" because it sounded like a current one. (I like both records a lot.)
― Matos W.K., Monday, 26 January 2009 15:58 (fifteen years ago) link
get editors at genral interest publications to recognize that they should ocassionally cover non-indie music.
Not trying to be a crank this morning, or an apologist, but what publications don't already do this? (Do agree they could all do it more.)
― xhuxk, Monday, 26 January 2009 15:59 (fifteen years ago) link
Don't most general interest publications tend to cover mainstream, major-label music more than anything?
― Matos W.K., Monday, 26 January 2009 16:02 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah newsweek is always going on and on about wolf parade and animal collective
― crackers is biters (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 26 January 2009 16:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Assumed he meant Spin/Blender/Rolling Stone (though yeah, they all tend more toward big-leagers too, as far as I can tell. Or at least bigger indie acts.)
old people voted for "Rehab" because it sounded like an old record and young people voted for "Umbrella" because it sounded like a current one
Yeah, that makes sense, and it's what I figured you meant. (As does the other stuff you said. Thanks!)
― xhuxk, Monday, 26 January 2009 16:06 (fifteen years ago) link
poll retabulated to include only the 47 voters who by my count voted for at least 3 rap albums
So the Knux's votes came almost exlusively from voters (like me, I admit) who listed almost no other rap? (Or did you just miss them? Pretty funny if, despite finishing 96th in the overall poll, they actually less turn out to be less troo hip-hop than Drive-By Truckers or Taylor Swift.)
― xhuxk, Monday, 26 January 2009 16:25 (fifteen years ago) link
(Same with Steinski, which finished 93rd, and I guess Why?, at 97th -- he used to be sort of hip-hip, right? -- though those are less surprising. Not that Knux are all that surprising themselves.)
― xhuxk, Monday, 26 January 2009 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link
Knux voters and their rap votes:
Arielle Castillo - Knux - Lil WayneSean Daly - Kanye West - KnuxCorey du Browa - KnuxChuck Eddy - KnuxAndy Gensler - KnuxJames Hannaham - KnuxDave Herrera - Knux - MursChristian Hoard - Knux - Lil WayneJames Hunter - KnuxMelissa Maerz - Knux - Lil WayneKembrew McLeod - KnuxAlex Rawls - Cool Kids - Knux - Lil Wayne - SteinskiBen Wener - Knux
― glenn mcdonald, Monday, 26 January 2009 16:39 (fifteen years ago) link
Here's the Metal version from the 26 voters who picked at least 3 metal albums ("metal" labels from ILM Metal poll plus a couple more uncontroversial ones I flagged myself):
10 - Nachtmystium - Assassins: Black Meddle, Pt.110 - Torche - Meanderthal8 - Opeth - Watershed7 - Portishead - Third6 - Harvey Milk - Life...The Best Game in Town6 - Metallica - Death Magnetic5 - Enslaved - Vertebrae5 - Genghis Tron - Board Up the House5 - Sword - Gods of the Earth4 - Fucked Up - Chemistry of Common Life4 - Gojira - Way of All Flesh4 - Meshuggah - obZen3 - Amon Amarth - Twilight of the Thunder God3 - Disfear - Live the Storm3 - Fennesz - Black Sea3 - Krallice - Krallice3 - Leviathan - Massive Conspiracy Against All Life3 - Made Out of Babies - Ruiner3 - Sigur Rós - Med Sud I Eyrum Vid Spilum Endalaust3 - Testament - Formation of Damnation3 - TV on the Radio - Dear Science
― glenn mcdonald, Monday, 26 January 2009 16:41 (fifteen years ago) link
I guess "general interest" was not the best term. I meant alt-weeklies. It is starting to seem like to me that for some daily newspapers and Time, Newsweek, etc. that after covering major-label popular releases, indie-rock seems to be the only acceptable genre to cover that does not have the same number of followers sales-wise.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 26 January 2009 16:53 (fifteen years ago) link