Magic: The Gathering C/D

tarmogoyf is not 'lately'

jace was a mistake, we know that. stoneforge mystic and snapcaster mage were too, though those weren't mythic rares. geist of saint traft and hero of bladehold are just strong cards; unlike all the overpowered creatures/planeswalkers, they don't play the defensive role and offensive role equally well, which limits their use and makes them fair

is this all about the online game? i keep seeing this thread high up but can't understand the discourse.

magic ruled my world as a young teen. i quit after a bit and sold my "fork" for 100 pounds, plus "made" (recouped) a decent amount on the rest (10 per cent of what i spent, probably.)

had a brief relapse around the time of mirages, hammer of bogarden and all that shit, then quit again for good.

hmm. forgot future sight was 5 years ago! whoa

still, I don't really think the format is necessarily unbalanced (as it was in say, the Affinity days), I just dislike the way cards that are way over the curve retroactively make a bunch of interesting or "build-around-me" stuff virtually unplayable in a serious deck, and the mythic era has kind of compounded this, as Wizards seems hellbent on printing a few such cards every set. Lately a lot of the most powerful cards have been either A) "deal with this immediately or you will lose" (such as the Titans, Wurmcoil, Hero, maybe Geist too), or B) "there is no good answer to this since it's too much card advantage/too cheap" - for example Snapcaster/Stoneforge/Delver really don't have good answers; they can be dealt with, but not in a way that's more efficient than the actual card. Wurmcoil sort of fits in this category too. Like, you may get burned by tapping out for Baneslayer and having it Dismembered right away, but most of the more powerful cards today don't even give your opponent the ability to respond to them in a manner that's actually efficient, meaning that the cards are so good that you have to search for reasons not to play them. Again I don't want to say this really unbalances things because T2 is relatively diverse now (or at least, it was a few months ago), it just sucks that Wizards has been printing so many neat/fun cards that really just can't see constructed play because they're so outclassed. anyway, rant over

I do give 'em credit for Birthing Pod though, most engine-type cards like that get nerfed horribly in development

just went on a little edh shopping spree on ebay. for less than $16 (including shipping) i got for my teneb the harvester deck: skullclamp, dauntless escort, aura shards, deadwood tree folk, loxodon hierarch, balance, qasali pridemage, saffi eriksdotter, elvish herder and magus of the disk.

i love birthing pod so much. i play it in my teneb deck. one of the most fun cards i've ever played w/ tbh

i'm particularly excited about a little loxodon hierarch/saffi eriksdotter/magus (and other removal) combo action

mordy come to ny some weekend and we can go to a draft together

i would like to!

rancor is a pretty sweet card too

wait, Balance is LEGAL in EDH? (I don't really know what the ban list is but I'd assume the most powerful card of all time is on it)

balance def didn't have the feel of an ultimate broken card back in the day. was it because there weren't ways to use it as effectively?

the same is true w/ swords

looking it up it was restricted in 1995 so maybe I'm wrong

This is a total guess but I think Zuran Orb might be the card that ultimately did it in?

yeah looking back at the era, that seems very likely:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/25b
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/25e

still feel like, overall even a deck w/ 4 zuran orbs and 4 balances back then wouldn't be dominant in later eras. like that hernandez deck is kinda innocent all things considered.

i think balance is banned but restore balance isn't?

obv balance >>> restore balance alas

looking at old stuff balance-zuran orb was def 'a thing'

http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9611b&L=mtg-l&D=1&P=19542

I loved reading that post even from a non-Magic angle. It reminded me that the 1990s was not so long ago and people were actually clever and articulate, not just pre-Internet savages who ate their own hair.

I guess an interesting question is how dominant could it have grown in a counterfactual world where it was unrestricted during the necro era

man that listserv is interesting

http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9601B&L=MTG-L&P=R6178&D=1&I=-3

did u guys take the time to figure out why that deck would be unstoppable? i'm curious but not enough to look up all those cards

ok, looked up a few. looks like your library is all very low cost artifacts so u can shed your hand quickly, tutor balance, then you rack them + paupers' cage them to death (both do damage to players w/ small hands)

looks like you just blow your hand early, tutor for Balance (Mystical Tutor as a 4-of...whoa), use it to destroy their creatures and their hand, use Zur's Weirding to deny their draws, kill 'em with the Rack and Mishra's Factories?

at the time I don't think creature-based strategies were really quick enough to deal with something like this

yeah creature decks were pretty much unplayable in the early days, they took like 5 or 6 turns to kill undisrupted, when that number really has to be 4 to compete with combo. the decks during urza's saga era couldn't even play the most efficient creatures like savannah lions because they had to play entirely artifact/enchantment destroying creatures like elvish lyrist and goblin tinkerer in order to have enough outs to the turn 2/3 combo kills.

I think that's a little too broad a statement. control/combo decks were generally slower too and if you look at top decks during the early period there are plenty of creature-based decks. (to me urza's saga is no longer the early days).

http://www.wizards.com/sideboard/article.asp?x=sb20001005a

like that 1996 deck seems pretty unintimidating but it was tournament playable because the rest of the game was slower too

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/210

new preview cards in this article all look great, i am even more excited for this set now

Yeah I really get the sense that RTR is going to be their best big set yet. That UR goblin seems super powerful, can't believe it's only common.

going to a draft in 40 mins :)

quick someone tell me the money cards

there is one with a marginally more efficient creature and then there are two that lock into a peculiar arbitrary pattern allowing you to win the game in three turns via rules lawyering

which set?

m13

draft tips asap!!! I have 30 mins

and am unfamiliar w/ the set outside of historic-cards and stuff on the ipad app

it looks like a lot of this is on the ipad app actually

ummm lets see, there's B/W exalted, W/x soldier deck with stuff like Crusader of Odric, a quick red Goblin deck, lots of good green fatties, blue has flyers, obviously

Core set draft is pretty easy in general. Find an uncommon or rare to build around, go to town

get some good creatures, pay attention to mana curve (heavily weighed towards 1 + 2 mana creatures) have fun!

what cards are worth $

it was fun! so many nerds. so many nerds.

i'd participate much more in nerd culture if not for the nerds

did you manage to grab a sublime archangel?

no, it woulda been nice tho, cause I had a black/white deck w/ a lot of exalted. still only did so-so cause I had a lot of bad draws. will def go back, the store is really close to my work + train home and everyone was really friendly.

yeah i started playinng at the local store last year and was surprised to find that most of the MTG regulars there are my age instead of highschool/college age like i had assumed, and there aren't any of the stereotypical tantrum-throwing antisocial nerds. its pretty chill

very brief tips for m13:
-the power uncommons that you're looking to first-pick, in no particular order: Serra Angel, Oblivion Ring, Talrand's Invocation, Vampire Nighthawk, Flames of the Firebrand
-the best commons, same deal as above: Searing Spear, Murder, Pacifism, Sentinel Spider (the green serra angel!)
-exalted plays very strong in limited and pretty much every creature with it is a good pick
-there are a ton of 3/3 creatures in the format, and therefore 2/2s get outclassed/brickwalled a lot. i avoid taking 2/2s or smaller unless they have a good ability.
-Chronomaton looks innocent but is actually one of the strongest cards in draft because it has no color commitment and because the games tend to go long enough to grow him real big. i'd pick it below the cards listed above and good rares, but above eveything else

I actually had serra angel, oblivion ring, 2 pacifisms and a murder

I had to pass a vampire nighthawk, I think for uh I forgot what it's called, but the 3/6 black rare that turns creatures into walls

xathrid gorgon!

your deck sounds insane then, that thing is arguably the best card in the entire set in limited

yeah I feel like my deck was 'good' in principle, had like 7 exalted creatures too, I just had really bad luck and maybe needed to play more than 13 creatures