Asva - What You Don't Know Is Frontier0.312 - 6 - 5ive - Hesperus0.269 - 7 - Earth - The Bees Made Honey...0.257 - 8 - Torche - Meanderthal0.246 - 4 - Ascend - Ample Fire Within0.246 - 4 - Unearthly Trance - Electrocution
But no Sunn 0))) ? How weird!!!
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 02:48 (fifteen years ago) link
I think that's all I've got. Any questions?
Asva and Sunn 0))) had only three voters in common, so their score fell below my cutoff.
― glenn mcdonald, Saturday, 24 January 2009 02:52 (fifteen years ago) link
Well if you know the history you will see why it's funny.
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 02:56 (fifteen years ago) link
i.e. a certain G. Stuart Dahlquist
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 02:58 (fifteen years ago) link
G. Stuart Dahlquist - Asva (Former member of Burning Witch, Sunn O))), Goatsnake)
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:02 (fifteen years ago) link
As a P&J-related footnote, 7 of the voters in this poll (as far as I know) also voted in P&J. Here they are scored by the number of metal albums they had the courage to vote for in a non-metal forum:
3 - A Begrand
Ha, I'm awful.
― A. Begrand, Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:03 (fifteen years ago) link
And here are the centricity scores for our 30 voters. These measure how close to critical consensus each voter's picks were, with 1 meaning you picked exactly the top 25 (or however many you voted for), and 0 meaning you were the only voter for everything you picked.0.89 - Brad C
0.89 - Brad C
Note to self, quit reading so many reviews
― Brad C., Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:04 (fifteen years ago) link
Or reading anything I recommend!
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:10 (fifteen years ago) link
Calculated similarities always produce some funny things. That's part of why I do them. Melvins/Marnie Stern is my favorite one here...
― glenn mcdonald, Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:12 (fifteen years ago) link
you're awesome. are you going to do all this cool stuff for the main ilx poll?
You mean so we can see the voter similarity for the unholy Bon Iver-Fleet Foxes-Vampire Weekend trinity?
― ilxor, Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:13 (fifteen years ago) link
or the similarities between corny indie albums and what the lex votes for? awesome!
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:18 (fifteen years ago) link
I shall at some point(tomorrow) tally up what record labels got the most albums people voted for (unless some kind soul does it 1st)
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:19 (fifteen years ago) link
(that's a hint)
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:32 (fifteen years ago) link
thread of the year, and i don't even like metal. good job for all involved as this was an awesome poll.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:40 (fifteen years ago) link
Glad you enjoyed it. Hope lots of people check out lots of the albums mentioned!
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 03:58 (fifteen years ago) link
I'll do the labels thing tomorrow then.
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 04:21 (fifteen years ago) link
I wish more people wrote blurbs for these. Myself included.
― ilxor, Saturday, 24 January 2009 05:29 (fifteen years ago) link
I missed the Top 10 countdown but I'm pretty happy with results.
Not really a blurb, but I can say I sincerely enjoyed the Nachtmystium album: I found it truly headscratching and I mean this in the best way possible. Its made out of opposite, almost impossible to mix together influences and still its very much Nachtmystium: "Ghosts of Grace" sounds like a black metal Kids of the Black Hole re-write and still it easily rubs shoulders with Pink Floyd-inspired numbers.
― Marco Damiani, Saturday, 24 January 2009 11:38 (fifteen years ago) link
I wis more people had wrote blurbs too. I did my best though.
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 14:59 (fifteen years ago) link
Willem have you checked out Courtesy And Good Will Toward Men? that is their true masterpiece
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 23 January 2009 23:41 (Yesterday) Bookmark
Recently bought and love this record, will now have to finally get their latest one too!
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Saturday, 24 January 2009 15:29 (fifteen years ago) link
Top Placing Labels In the Top 50 Vote
Hydra Head 6Profoundlore 4Southern Lord 3Relapse 2Season of Mist 2Prosthetic 2I Hate Records 2Burning World 2Century Media 220 Buck Spin 1Avant Garde 1Crucial Blast 1Gnarled Forest 1Important 1Indie 1Ipecac 1Kill Rock Stars 1Listenable 1Metal Blade 1Moribund 1Not Not Fun 1Nuclear Blast 1Rise Above 1Roadrunner 1Seventh Rule 1Southern 1SPV/Steamhammer 1Sub Pop 1Supernatural Cat 1Tee Pee 1Temporary Residence LTD 1The End Records 1Warner Bros 1
And here for posterity is a repost of the full ballot results.Rank - Points - Votes - #1s - Artist - Album
1 - 479 - 25 - 2 - Torche - Meanderthal2 - 357 - 19 - 3 - Harvey Milk - Life...the Best Game in Town3 - 276 - 19 - 0 - Earth - The Bees Made Honey...4 - 227 - 16 - 0 - Boris - Smile5 - 212 - 13 - 1 - Opeth - Watershed6 - 203 - 11 - 1 - Nachtmystium - Assassins: Black Meddle Part 17 - 183 - 10 - 2 - Esoteric - The Maniacal Vale8 - 179 - 12 - 0 - 5ive - Hesperus9 - 165 - 10 - 2 - Made Out of Babies - The Ruiner10 - 163 - 10 - 0 - Gojira - The Way of All Flesh11 - 158 - 11 - 1 - The Goslings - Occasion12 - 155 - 10 - 0 - Meshuggah - obZen13 - 145 - 9 - 0 - Enslaved - Vertebrae14 - 141 - 10 - 0 - Melvins - Nude With Boots15 - 140 - 8 - 0 - Caina - Temporary Antennae16 - 137 - 8 - 0 - Krallice - Krallice17 - 128 - 8 - 0 - Leviathan - Massive Conspiracy Against All Life18 - 126 - 8 - 1 - Asva - What You Don't Know Is Frontier18 - 126 - 8 - 0 - Cynic - Traced in Air20 - 123 - 8 - 0 - Sunn 0))) - Domkirke21 - 118 - 7 - 2 - Grails - Doomsdayer's Holiday22 - 111 - 8 - 0 - Coffins - Buried Death23 - 109 - 8 - 0 - Amon Amarth - Twilight of the Thunder God24 - 100 - 6 - 0 - Ocean - Pantheon of the Lesser25 - 98 - 5 - 1 - The Gutter Twins - Saturnalia26 - 89 - 6 - 0 - Moss - Sub Templum26 - 89 - 5 - 0 - Wetnurse - Invisible City28 - 88 - 7 - 0 - Earthless - Live at Roadburn28 - 88 - 8 - 0 - UFOmammut - Idolum30 - 83 - 6 - 0 - The Gates of Slumber - Conqueror31 - 81 - 6 - 0 - Moonspell - Night Eternal32 - 78 - 6 - 0 - Jesu - Why Are We Not Perfect33 - 72 - 6 - 0 - Ascend - Ample Fire Within34 - 71 - 3 - 1 - Hammers of Misfortune - Fields/Church of Broken Glass35 - 70 - 5 - 0 - Witch - Paralyzed36 - 68 - 6 - 0 - Genghis Tron - Board Up the House37 - 66 - 5 - 0 - Jex Thoth - Jex Thoth38 - 63 - 6 - 0 - Intronaut - Prehistoricisms39 - 62 - 5 - 0 - Darkspace - III40 - 61 - 4 - 0 - Marnie Stern - This Is It And I Am It And You Are It41 - 60 - 4 - 1 - Disfear - Live the Storm42 - 59 - 4 - 1 - Blood Ceremony - Blood Ceremony43 - 55 - 4 - 0 - Metallica - Death Magnetic43 - 55 - 6 - 0 - Unearthly Trance - Electrocution45 - 54 - 4 - 0 - Nadja - Desire In Uneasiness45 - 54 - 4 - 0 - Withered - Folie Circulaire47 - 52 - 5 - 0 - Bison B.C. - Quiet Earth48 - 50 - 4 - 0 - Blue Sabbath Black Cheer - Untitled48 - 50 - 3 - 0 - Gnaw Their Tongues - An Epiphanic Vomiting of Blood50 - 48 - 3 - 1 - Zebulon Pike - Intranscience50 - 48 - 3 - 0 - Racebannon - Acid or Blood52 - 47 - 5 - 0 - Eluveitie - Slania53 - 46 - 4 - 0 - The Sword - Gods of the Earth54 - 44 - 4 - 0 - Amen Ra - Mass IIII54 - 44 - 3 - 0 - Cough - Sigillum Luciferi56 - 42 - 3 - 0 - Lair of the Minotaur - War Metal Battle Master56 - 42 - 3 - 0 - Trinacria - Travel Now Journey Infinitely58 - 41 - 2 - 0 - Belphegor - Bondage Goat Zombie58 - 41 - 2 - 0 - Conifer - Crown Fire58 - 41 - 3 - 0 - Jarboe - Mahakali61 - 40 - 2 - 0 - Brave - Monuments61 - 40 - 3 - 0 - Deathspell Omega - Veritas Diaboli Manet in Aeternum63 - 39 - 3 - 1 - Have A Nice Life - Deathconsciousness64 - 38 - 3 - 0 - Cult of Luna - Eternal Kingdom64 - 38 - 3 - 0 - Helms Alee - Night Terror64 - 38 - 4 - 0 - US Christmas - Eat the Low Dogs67 - 37 - 2 - 0 - Sex/Vid - Communal Living68 - 36 - 2 - 0 - Girlschool - Legacy69 - 35 - 4 - 0 - Motorhead - Motorizer70 - 34 - 2 - 0 - Black Boned Angel - The Endless Coming Into Life70 - 34 - 3 - 0 - Death Angel - Killing Season70 - 34 - 3 - 0 - Ocrilim - Annwn70 - 34 - 2 - 0 - Septicflesh - Communion74 - 33 - 2 - 1 - Samothrace - Lifes Trade74 - 33 - 3 - 0 - Journey To Ixtlan - S/t76 - 32 - 2 - 1 - Equilibrium - Sagas76 - 32 - 4 - 0 - Tyr - Land78 - 31 - 2 - 1 - Pyramids - Pyramids78 - 31 - 2 - 0 - Helrunar - Baldr Okk Iss80 - 30 - 2 - 0 - Ayreon - 0101100180 - 30 - 2 - 0 - Candlemass - Lucifer Rising82 - 29 - 3 - 0 - Dir En Grey - Uroboros82 - 29 - 2 - 0 - Dornenreich - In Luft Geritzt84 - 28 - 2 - 0 - Aldebaran - dwellers in twilight84 - 28 - 2 - 0 - Aura Noir - Hades Rise84 - 28 - 2 - 0 - In Flames - A Sense of Purpose84 - 28 - 3 - 0 - Kayo Dot - Blue Lambency Downward84 - 28 - 3 - 0 - Morkobot - Morto89 - 27 - 2 - 1 - In This Moment - The Dream89 - 27 - 3 - 0 - Graveyard - Graveyard91 - 25 - 1 - 1 - Gevolt - Sidur91 - 25 - 1 - 1 - Mar De Grises - draining the waterheart91 - 25 - 1 - 1 - Rose Tattoo - Blood Brothers94 - 24 - 1 - 0 - Burst - Lazarus Bird94 - 24 - 1 - 0 - Fuck the Facts - Disgorge Mexico94 - 24 - 1 - 0 - The Lizards - archeology97 - 23 - 1 - 0 - A Storm of Light - And We Wept the Black Ocean Within97 - 23 - 2 - 0 - Black Elk - Always a Six, Never a Nine97 - 23 - 1 - 0 - Everon - North97 - 23 - 1 - 0 - Legless - Finding Mr. Perfect97 - 23 - 1 - 0 - RTX - JJ Got Live RATX97 - 23 - 3 - 0 - Trees - Lights Bane103 - 22 - 2 - 0 - Capricorns - River, Bear Your Bones103 - 22 - 1 - 0 - Helix - The Power of Rock and Roll103 - 22 - 2 - 0 - Moho - Chotocabra103 - 22 - 1 - 0 - Orakle - Tourments & perdition107 - 21 - 1 - 0 - Ayat - Six Years of Dormant Hatred107 - 21 - 2 - 0 - The Devil's Blood - Come, Reap107 - 21 - 2 - 0 - Ihsahn - angL107 - 21 - 2 - 0 - Taint - Secrets and Lies107 - 21 - 1 - 0 - Ted Nugent - Sweden Rocks112 - 20 - 1 - 0 - Colour Haze - All113 - 19 - 2 - 0 - Atavist/Nadja - II: Points at Infinity113 - 19 - 2 - 0 - DragonForce - Ultra Beatdown113 - 19 - 1 - 0 - The Human Abstract - Midheaven113 - 19 - 1 - 0 - Into Eternity - The Incurable Tragedy113 - 19 - 1 - 0 - Oceans of Sadness - The Arrogance of Ignorance118 - 18 - 2 - 0 - Cave - Hunt Like Devil118 - 18 - 1 - 0 - Celestia - Frigidiis Apotheosia: Abstinencia Genesiis118 - 18 - 2 - 0 - Grand Magus - Iron Will118 - 18 - 1 - 0 - Mouth of the Architect - Quietly118 - 18 - 1 - 0 - Night Ranger - Hole In the Sun118 - 18 - 1 - 0 - Salome - Salome124 - 17 - 2 - 0 - Black Boned Angel & Nadja - Christ Send Light124 - 17 - 1 - 0 - Disturbed - Indestructible124 - 17 - 1 - 0 - Gyongyver - Vilagok Viraga124 - 17 - 1 - 0 - Janvs - Vega124 - 17 - 1 - 0 - Klabautamann - Our Journey Through the Woods124 - 17 - 1 - 0 - Ondo - Mahavishnu124 - 17 - 1 - 0 - Scar Symmetry - Holographic Universe124 - 17 - 1 - 0 - Wrath of the Weak - Alogon132 - 16 - 1 - 0 - The Death of Her Money - Spirit of the Stairwell132 - 16 - 1 - 0 - Keep of Kalessin - Kolossus132 - 16 - 2 - 0 - Martriden - The Unsettling Dark132 - 16 - 1 - 0 - Other Fools - 12 More Lies132 - 16 - 2 - 0 - Zozobra - Bird of Prey137 - 15 - 1 - 0 - Arkona - Ot Serdca K Nebu137 - 15 - 1 - 0 - Desalvo - Mood Poisoner137 - 15 - 2 - 0 - Origin - Antithesis140 - 14 - 2 - 0 - The Austrasian Goat - pieces to oblivian140 - 14 - 2 - 0 - Early Man - Beware the Circling Fin140 - 14 - 2 - 0 - Hate Eternal - Fury and Flames140 - 14 - 1 - 0 - Hey Colossus - Happy Birthday140 - 14 - 1 - 0 - Noekk - The Minstrel's Curse145 - 13 - 1 - 0 - Monolith Deathcult - Trivmvirate145 - 13 - 1 - 0 - Mount Logan - Mount Logan147 - 12 - 1 - 0 - Austrian Death Machine - Total Brutal147 - 12 - 1 - 0 - Don Caballero - Punkgasm147 - 12 - 1 - 0 - Tecumseh - Avalanche and Inundation150 - 11 - 1 - 0 - Daylight Dies - Lost to the Living150 - 11 - 1 - 0 - Elder - Elder150 - 11 - 1 - 0 - Hail of Bullets - Of Frost and War150 - 11 - 1 - 0 - The Haunted - Versus150 - 11 - 1 - 0 - Mourning Beloveth - A Disease for the Ages150 - 11 - 2 - 0 - Pentemple - 0))) Presents156 - 10 - 1 - 0 - Arckanum - Antikosmos156 - 10 - 1 - 0 - Black Shape of Nexus (B.son) - Microbarome Meetings156 - 10 - 1 - 0 - Catley, Bob - Immortal156 - 10 - 2 - 0 - Guapo - Elixirs160 - 9 - 1 - 0 - Akimbo - Jersey Shores160 - 9 - 1 - 0 - Amassfer - Slaves For Life160 - 9 - 1 - 0 - Draconian - Turning Season Within160 - 9 - 1 - 0 - Fiftywatthead - Fogcutter160 - 9 - 1 - 0 - Nadja - The Bungled And the Botched160 - 9 - 1 - 0 - Textures - Silhouettes166 - 8 - 1 - 0 - Lantlos - Lantlos167 - 7 - 1 - 0 - Becoming the Archetype - Dichotomy167 - 7 - 1 - 0 - Isole - Bliss of Solitude169 - 6 - 1 - 0 - Children of Bodom - Blooddrunk169 - 6 - 1 - 0 - In Mourning - Shrouded Divine169 - 6 - 1 - 0 - The Lamp of Thoth - Portents, Omens and Doom169 - 6 - 1 - 0 - Viking Skull - Doom Gloom Heartache & Whiskey173 - 5 - 1 - 0 - Cavalera Conspiracy - Inflikted173 - 5 - 1 - 0 - Cursed - III173 - 5 - 1 - 0 - Dalriada - Szelek173 - 5 - 1 - 0 - Hyatari - They will surface173 - 5 - 1 - 0 - Khold - Hundre a Gammal173 - 5 - 1 - 0 - Neuraxis - The Thin Line Between179 - 4 - 1 - 0 - Gods And Queens - S/T179 - 4 - 1 - 0 - Heavy Winged - Alive in My Mouth179 - 4 - 1 - 0 - My Silent Wake - A Garland of Tears182 - 3 - 2 - 0 - Poisonblack - A Dead Heavy Day182 - 3 - 1 - 0 - White Lion - Return of the Pride184 - 2 - 1 - 0 - The Amenta - nOn184 - 2 - 1 - 0 - Arsis - We Are the Nightmare184 - 2 - 1 - 0 - Farmakon - Robin187 - 1 - 1 - 0 - Cor Scorpii - Monument187 - 1 - 1 - 0 - Indian - Slights and Abuse / the Sycophant187 - 1 - 1 - 0 - Metsatoll - Iivakivi187 - 1 - 1 - 0 - Suspyre - When Time Fades...
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 15:43 (fifteen years ago) link
you done good, pfunkboy; this is a terrific thread!
xxp
― Ioannis, Saturday, 24 January 2009 15:43 (fifteen years ago) link
seconded.
― zero learnt from nero (Neil S), Saturday, 24 January 2009 15:44 (fifteen years ago) link
or thirded or whatever!
now that the dust has settled, i just want to encourage people (again) to give that Zebulon Pike record a listen. its just epic.
― ass partner are the most disgusting savages in all the world imo (John Justen), Saturday, 24 January 2009 15:45 (fifteen years ago) link
^good name.
― Ioannis, Saturday, 24 January 2009 15:51 (fifteen years ago) link
Zebulon Pike are terrific.
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 15:54 (fifteen years ago) link
In case anyone is Wondering, No, Geir did not vote.
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 16:00 (fifteen years ago) link
how about the lex?
― Ioannis, Saturday, 24 January 2009 16:04 (fifteen years ago) link
I doubt he was aware the poll existed
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 16:07 (fifteen years ago) link
Just in case anyone is wondering I don't have the stats for record labels for the whole poll. I had to do the 50 manually by just running down the top 50 where I actually had posted the record label name.
This thread is lacking Alex In NYC death to false metal posts
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 16:42 (fifteen years ago) link
DEATH TO FALSE METAL
― Shmutchered at Shmirth (J3ff T.), Saturday, 24 January 2009 17:33 (fifteen years ago) link
DEATH TO FALSE METAL!!1
― ilxor, Saturday, 24 January 2009 18:12 (fifteen years ago) link
Do a poll for rap now.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 24 January 2009 18:26 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah Jeff do a poll for rap.
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 18:42 (fifteen years ago) link
I thought deej or Hoos would have done a rap poll actually. Could have been a useful way for the non-autogoon's to find out about good stuff.
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 18:45 (fifteen years ago) link
METAL TO FALSE DEATH!!1
― Ioannis, Saturday, 24 January 2009 18:48 (fifteen years ago) link
http://images.gfx.no/471/471488/cover-manowar-anthology-555x555.jpg
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 18:50 (fifteen years ago) link
WTF??!!http://www.thorcentral.com/mp_redesign/images/memorabilia/truemetal-greek-mag.jpg
lololololol
To say something I'll probably regret - if someone can be arsed sorting out rules and such, I'll count votes and whatnot for a rap poll. Someone may also have to tell me how to post images.
― a hoy hoy, Saturday, 24 January 2009 18:51 (fifteen years ago) link
this thread made me finally warm up to that torche album. now to track down vinyl awesome version (i think i like lizard skin best)
― CLAPSOCK (John Justen), Saturday, 24 January 2009 19:13 (fifteen years ago) link
man, how old is Thor? wasn't he putting out records in the '70s???
(2CD Δορο is a nice touch, tho.)
― Ioannis, Saturday, 24 January 2009 19:15 (fifteen years ago) link
I think most if not all of the 2nd press colours are still available from Robotic Empire.Pic disk version was shops only.
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 19:15 (fifteen years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Mikl_Thor
― Ioannis, Saturday, 24 January 2009 19:20 (fifteen years ago) link
His most recent album, Devastation of Musculation, was released in March, 2006.
good grief.
― Keep The Dogs Away (Ioannis), Saturday, 24 January 2009 19:23 (fifteen years ago) link
To say something I'll probably regret - if someone can be arsed sorting out rules and such, I'll count votes and whatnot for a rap poll. Someone may also have to tell me how to post images.― a hoy hoy,
― a hoy hoy,
If you ask musically she might share her secrets with you. Though she will be busy for 2 weeks doing the big ilx poll results.Also you should ask on the autogoon thread to see if anyone will help.
Posting images is easy. Just click the link to show formatting help below where you type out a post.
Good luck!
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 19:26 (fifteen years ago) link
What I did was I started a nominations thread. Keep it open for a week. Then compile all the nominations then do a thread with the list on it, with details on how to vote and supply an email address for ballots to be sent to (I set up a specific gmail for it)Once voting ends you count it all up.
Then I got stuck on how to tabulate and thankfully got help with that!But if you know how to work excel, you should be ok!
Get album covers from Amazon or somewhere (don't use rateyourmusic, they don't show up)And use the tag to post
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 19:45 (fifteen years ago) link
Oh and some of them would rather have a rap trax poll, so you might have to do both.
― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 24 January 2009 19:50 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm thinking about it, if I do move it'll be tomorrow. cheers for the info though. (Tomorrow I'm also going to pick one of the albums on this list I like the cover of to listen to.)
― a hoy hoy, Saturday, 24 January 2009 20:25 (fifteen years ago) link