Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

Yeah, but the album before Encore did. I think it counts anyway on virtue of "hugely successful album that nobody rates very highly at this point." "Lose Yourself" is basically an errant data point in Eminem's career arc, right? My sense of the CW at this point is "Peaked with Marshall Mathers LP" but I'd have to read some Eminem threads in detail to corroborate that.

Encore still sold 5x platinum, and in the mid '00s. Eminem Show didn't "have a movie!" the movie came after and it was a big fucking hit. Eminem Show is like Bad where it wasn't Thriller but it was enormous and the guy kept being enormous so haters stop hating.

I still think Atomic is more of a New Jersey than Rattle & Hum, but the latter at least has the whiff of embarrassment. Eminem never said sorry about anything until Relapse.

he said sorry to his mama in "Cleanin' Out My Closet."

i don't think he really meant it though

did not signal a career decline
This is the main reason that Rattle & Hum feels a slightly awkward fit to me - the fact that they followed it up very successfully with Achtung Baby (albeit with quite a bit of a change in sound and image). It def fits in terms of an album that sold well and was a Big Deal at the time but is largely forgotten/ignored now though.

Yeah, I think I've generally been more interested in the "ultimately feels a bit hollow" than the "signals a career decline" aspect of the New Jersey - just how much an album's narrative position can reverse as a result of larger things (shift in taste, shift in fanbase, band's metanarrative, radio format stuff, and yeah, subsequent career decline). But that's me trying to rewrite the definition so maybe Eminem Show doesn't count really.

If the Eminem Show doesn't count then Encore definitely does.

xpost to myself in that way it's perhaps comparable to The Great Escape by Blur - albums that despite performing well led to a realisation that the 'more of what you love' approach had run its course and that there was a need to go back to the drawing board for the next record.
Be Here Now by Oasis is a bona-fide, gold-standard New Jersey though.

I think Encore might actually be closer to Eminem's Fairweather Johnson.

Don De Lillo's New Jersey = Underworld.

OTM!

more on Encore - Like, I was going to just say "the hell, everyone hated that album and it flopped totally" but checking Wiki, nope, damn thing did 5x platinum in the US... but the singles were frighteningly unsuccessful for a top-tier artist. Chart peaks: Just Lose It (#6), Encore (#25), Like Toy Soldiers (#34), Mockingbird (#11), Ass Like That (#60).

Like, "Mockingbird" aside (side note, I don't remember this song at all), that's the story of an album that had strong momentum going in, enough to push a weak first single into the top ten for a second, and then the wheels came off.

yeah Encore should be in there imo

i mean has an album ever sold so much with the artist telegraphing "i don't like doing this anymore and i'm hoping you stop making me" so clearly?

They're horrible singles but no more so than Adrenalize, and bigger (three went Gold!). However, when the follow-up came around the bloom was definitely off the rose. He's pushed 3x platinum out of Recovery and will always be Rap's Elvis right to Vegas, but he definitely lost some luster after Encore. I'm going to include that as a sop to the Shady-haters.

Be Here Now would be a New Jersey in the UK, but in the US it only went platinum. Definitely a fairweather johnson here.

dangit, i was trying to push Encore as Fairweather Johnson, oops

Eminem's arc has a kink in it because of the 4-5 year "retirement"; granted acts often go that long between albums anyway, but Relapse didn't really feel like "the followup to Encore," it was the comeback album....with Recovery being the actual comeback album where suddenly he's a huge-selling name again.

the release of the "Mosh" video just before the 2004 election felt like an event (stupid as that may seem in retrospect)

comeback album or not, Relapse did really badly and the fact that Encore was an ass platter probably didn't help

I don't think No Need To Argue is a New Jersey. The album was a hit in its own right, not because it was riding on it's predecessor's success. And "Zombie" is ten times better remembered than "Linger".

not on ilx!

I thought Zombie was remembered on ILX as the high-water mark of horrible music.

I was debating No Need To Argue - it may be the only album listed that did better than the previous one - but people really do hate it here and the follow-up was a yeargh drop. If everyone loves it they can vote for it as the Best New Jersey and shame "Zombie"-phobes.

Things I didn't forsee myself doing today - searching 'Eminem discography' on wikipedia.

But where Rattle & Hum and Be Here Now fail the test is that they were exposed as steaming piles almost immediately. A true New Jersey keeps going, like Wile E. Coyote off his cliff, until the collective realisation much later.

the release of the "Mosh" video just before the 2004 election felt like an event (stupid as that may seem in retrospect)

― Euler, Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:20 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol 52 professional critics were so desperate for a political moment in pop music that they put "Mosh" on their Pazz & Jop ballots

But where Rattle & Hum and Be Here Now fail the test is that they were exposed as steaming piles almost immediately. A true New Jersey keeps going, like Wile E. Coyote off his cliff, until the collective realisation much later.
Yeah this is actually a fair point. My memory may be faulty but with Be Here Now I don't even remember the singles getting much radio play with the exception of Stand By Me (they still charted fairly well though).

it's been mentioned upthread but there was a pretty sharp divide with Be Here Now being initially pretty successful in the UK but not so much in the US. although i did see the goddamn "All Around The World" video on MTV quite a lot.

Lol All Around The World was such a steaming pile, totally fits that hollow, bloated vibe we've been discussing here.

wasn't it used in a commercial a few years ago?

ok so actually does anyone mind if I take out No Need To Argue? I think my judgement may have been clouded by the anti-"Zombie" bile on here, it's not like Cranberries fans per se have obvious beef with it, could definitely be argued To The Faithfully Departed (which still sold 2x platinum) was their Fairweather Johnson.

In the US, I feel like there was maybe a two-month period where you would hear "D'ya Know What I Mean" and "Don't Go Away" in not-very-heavy rotation, and then they just disappeared. I heard "Don't Go Away" at the grocery store earlier this year and was kind of floored like, how did that make the playlist?

A Be Here Now is probably its own shorthand already, right? For a massively anticipated album that just disappoints everyone from the word go, incredibly negative critical consensus, sense that success has gone to the band's heads. Fairweather Johnsons just miss the moment and fade into the night, Be Here Nows suck and everybody knows it.

xpost i kinda like "all around the world" tho

keeping Rattle & Hum cuz some people obviously want it, plus fuck U2

BHN got spectacular reviews in England iirc

The level of hubris around Oasis was so great in 1997 that everyone who reviewed it convinced themselves it was a classic and then got very embarrassed when they'd calmed down a bit.

Kind of interested to see how this poll rolls - - glad it's "Best" rather than "Worst," since the latter would just be piling up conventional wisdom on albums that we all know suck.

I'm also amazed, by the way, that we've gone this long without any die-hard Bon Jovi fans - - Googler or otherwise - - barging in to lecture us on how New Jersey is amazing and that true Jovvalos widely agree that it, not Slippery When Wet, is their real lasting achievement.

i will take "I'll Be There For You" over "Wanted Dead Or Alive"

waht is springsteens new jersey

The 5 CD live set, Live 1975-1985

considered it but nah, followed by Tunnel Love which is still adored as hell.

also remarkable display of hubris or no, weird to say the mega-live set signaled a career decline for a guy who's never not filled those stadiums since

btw, just wanted to share this: the first Google search result for "what are bon jovi fans called" begins ominously: The Bon Jovi fan fiction community is small, with the few communities out there not being...

did not find out what bon jovi fans are called, leaning towards "Jovvalos" or perhaps "Bon Bronies"

Afterburner is probably the most archetypical of these because woah 5 million copies and you never hear any of those songs anymore, plus it's called AFTERBURNER for chrissakes

If Human Touch & Lucky Town had been combined for a one album release I bet that would have pushed past 3x platinum and then be his jersey.

Would go for the Love Symbol album over D&P tbh. D&P was surely more of a mini-comeback after Graffiti Bridge and allowing for the novelty of Batman.

former too bloated, less memorable singles, certainly somewhat less successful units wise

You definitely hear My Name is Prince/SexyMF/Morning Papers etc less than D&P/Cream/Money Dont matter

Yeah, now I understand the question better, I vote that too.

i will take "I'll Be There For You" over "Wanted Dead Or Alive"

you are certifiably insane

Would go for the Love Symbol album over D&P tbh

I was thinking this, but I really like Love Symbol and I DESPISE Diamonds and Pearls aside from "Gett Off"

wait you didn't include my simple minds example. or didn't it sell enough? it must have sold millions.

I def prefer the NJ singles to Slippery When Wet's.

Critical consensus round Be Here Now: iirc NME embarrassed themselves by giving What's The Story a (6), only to greet BHN with a euphoric (9).

There was definitely something in the air you could see coming, though - I had everything Oasis released up to the lead single (which I even liked), but was not for a second tempted to buy BHN.

Does anyone have an argument against Jewel's Spirit as an NJ?