Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

in movies this is Return of the Jedi

I don't think Spirits Having Flown is a New Jersey, I hear "Too Much Heaven" & "Love You Inside Out" too much for that. though the last time I heard "Love You Inside Out" was at a restaurant in Paris, & it was followed up by "Call Me Maybe", so really who knows

in movies this is Return of the Jedi

― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:31 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

woah, totally.

yeah i was wondering re: bee gees if it was different in europe, in America I have a real sense that despite being #1s, "Tragedy" "Love You Inside Out" and "Too Much Heaven" get nowhere the play of the Saturday Night Fever/Main Course stuff.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cc/Lethal_Weapon_3_Poster.jpg

LOL re: Jedi, otm

Not sure I buy Fairweather Johnson as an 'event album,' but take that phrase out and it's a really useful category - things that sold massively in the first weeks, entirely on the momentum of the previous record, then died completely as everyone either realized it wasn't as good, or that the moment had simply passed. SFIJ is in this category, and probably a ton more much-hyped flops that are technically non-flops since they sold a million plus and had a ''hit'' in the first single (before the jig was up). The New Jersey is a much, much smaller club; I feel like this thread has maybe produced a dozen or fifteen, total, in between all the cult hits (not relevant), flop records (New Jerseys are successful, i like Elrond's point that they appear to be Slipperys) and ordinary sophomore slumps (which don't enjoy even the momentum sales of a Fairweather Johnson).

Xpost Re: Bee Gees, this may be a US/Europe divide. None of those songs are US radio regulars, although I did hear a dude request ''Tragedy'' a few weeks ago.

"Tragedy" rules so I'd be offended if it was forgotten entirely.

But yeah, re: Fairweathers forget "event album" - it's just a good way for us to make New Jersey a more exclusive honor

There's a phenomenon that's similar which I would dub the Journey Through The Secret Life of Plants (AKA the One From the Heart, in the film world), which is the instance wherein a respected artist, after having poured themselves into a critically-acclaimed and commercially successful work, basically opens up the pressure valve and sees a concurrent downturn in their critical and commercial success.

Step By Step def one.

Step By Step SO otm

Old Lunch, by "pressure valve," you mean doing what they want, marketplace be damned?

I don't know the band's discography well enough to pick one, but I have to believe the White Stripes have a New Jersey, right?

chocolate starfish and the hotdog flavored water

50 cent - the massacre

yeah i was wondering re: bee gees if it was different in europe, in America I have a real sense that despite being #1s, "Tragedy" "Love You Inside Out" and "Too Much Heaven" get nowhere the play of the Saturday Night Fever/Main Course stuff.

― da croupier, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 4:33 PM (4 hours ago)

Same thing happened with Andy Gibb's three U.S. number ones though the local old school R&B station where I live revived "I Just Want to Be Your Everything" and it seems to have stuck around.

Old Lunch, by "pressure valve," you mean doing what they want, marketplace be damned?

Nah, I just mean there's a clear sense that, after serving up this magnum opus that ate up years of their lives (and possibly shaved a few off the back end), they're going to be putting significantly less than 100% of themselves into all subsequent efforts. The implicit statement being, "Well, I can't top that, so instead of even making that foolish attempt, I'm just gonna relax and have a mid-level career from here on out."

I don't know the band's discography well enough to pick one, but I have to believe the White Stripes have a New Jersey, right?

satan imo

so I just tried to compile a list of some of the biggest examples of this phenomenon with the reasoning. I tried to stick to albums that
a) sold at least 3 million copies.
b) achieved enough success as not to guarantee the next one would do even worse. I left out Adrenalize because even if 3 million sold and 4 top 40 hits is kind of stunning in hindsight, it's still a Fairweather Johnson following a diamond album with 6 top 20 hits.
c) few would argue these albums have been found wanting in hindsight - and wanting compared to their previous work (excluded seger and bizkit cuz i don't know people are raving about the Significant Other and Stranger In Town hits considerably more than Chocolate Starfish and Against The Wind hits, even if those latter albums were the end of their strongest sales period).

Garth Brooks, Sevens
(10x platinum #1 album with 4 top 5 country hits including 2 #1s. The previous album, Fresh Horses, went 7x platinum and also had 4 top 5 country hits including 2 #1s. However, Sevens was notorious for its heavy promotion, and his Chris Gaines follow-up only went 2x platinum. When he finally released another studio non-Christmas country album, it was his lowest seller - still 5x platinum - and his last to date.)

Backstreet Boys, Black & Blue
(8x platinum #1 album with two top 40 hits, including one top ten. The previous album went 13x platinum with four top 40 hits, including two top tens. The next album only went platinum. Notably, the hits comp released a year after Black & Blue only went platinum, too.)

Bon Jovi, New Jersey
(7x platinum #1 album with 5 top ten hits including 2 #1s. In comparison, previous album Slippery When Wet had only 3 top ten hits despite eventually going 12x platinum. However, follow-up Keep The Faith was a 2x platinum #5 album with 1 top ten hit. The three Slippery hits rank #1, 3 &4 in popularity on Spotify. While the two #1s from NJ make the top ten, you have to scroll past umpteen "Living On A Prayers" and "Always"s and "Bed of Roses"s to get to the other hits.)

Guns'n'Roses, Use Your Illusion I & II
(both albums went 7x platinum, with Vol. 1 offering two top ten hits and each giving another top 40. The previous release, G'n'R Lies, admittedly an EP, sold 5x million. While all the hits - and "Civil War" still get love on Spotify, it's definitely got nothing on Appetite and almost unanimously people see The Beginning Of The End in a way they didn't at the time.)

Cranberries, No Need To Argue
(7x platinum #6 album with two top 40 "pop" hits - it was that funky airplay time - that charted less than pair from the previous album, which only went 5x platinum. However, the follow-up To The Faithfully Departed only went 2x platinum, and if someone thinks this album is anywhere as good as the first, speak up cuz ILX hasn't heard you).

Journey, Frontiers
(6x platinum #2 album with 4 top 30 hits including 1 top ten. Previous album Escape went 9x platinum with 3 top 10 hits. The follow-up, Raised On Radio would have four top 20 hits but only go 2x platinum. Plus everybody got into side projects after Frontiers. Plus the highest charting song was "Separate Ways").

ZZ Top, Afterburner
(5x platinum #4 album - their highest charting ever - with four top 40 hits, including #8 "Sleeping Bag." In comparison, previous album Eliminator only had 2 top 40 hits, including #8 "Legs," despite going 10x platinum. However, follow-up Recycler only went platinum and had no top 40 hits. Only "Rough Boy" makes spotify's top ten in popularity and none of the tracks were deemed worth of inclusion of their "Hi-Five" digital pack).

Billy Joel, River Of Dreams
(5x platinum #1 album with 2 top 20 hits, including the #3 title track. Billy's previous album, Storm Front, had 2 top 10 hits including a #1, but only went 4x platinum. However, "We Didn't Start The Fire" is a notch above "River" on Spotify, "The Downeaster Alexa" several notches above "Lullaby - Goodnight Angel" and about half of Storm Front passes before we see "All About Soul". His only follow-up has been a classical album.)

R.E.M., Monster
(4x platinum #1 album with two top 40 singles, both of which charted higher than the three top 40 hits from their previous album Automatic For The People, which also went 4x platinum - but peaked at #2. However, follow-up New Adventures In Hi-Fi only went platinum and had no top 40 hits. Ranking tracks on Spotify by popularity, you have to scroll through album tracks of Automatic to get to "Bang And Blame". Plus there's the whole 'most sold back CD ever' thing).

Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, The Art Of War
(4x platinum #1 album with two top 40 singles including one top 5. The previous album, E. 1999 Eternal, also was a 4x platinum #1 with two top 20 hits including a #1. The follow-up, BTNH Resurrection, only went platinum and had no pop hits. "Look Into My Eyes" has not had the longevity of "1st Of Da Month" or "Da Cross Roads."

Boston, Third Stage
(4x platinum #1 album with two top ten hits including one #1, despite coming eight years after the last album. However, in 1987, Boston had gone 9x platinum, Don't Look Back 4x platinum and Third Stage 4x time platinum. Today, Boston is at 17x platinum, and Don't Look Back is at 7x platinum. Third Stage remains at four, and the follow-up, Walk On only went Platinum).

Genesis, We Can't Dance
(4x platinum #4 album with 5 top 30 singles - including one top ten. Admittedly a notch down chart-wise from Invisible Touch - 6x platinum #3 album, 5 top 5 hits including a #1 - and Phil's But Seriously - 4x platinum #1 album, 3 top 5 hits including a #1. But still no reason to assume Phil's next solo album just two years later would fail to make the top ten and only go platinum. Until you remember the last top ten hit was "I Can't Dance.")

AC/DC, For Those About To Rock We Salute You
(4x platinum #1 album - their first and only chart-topper until 2008. While Back In Black has been printing money since its release, having gone 20x, both Salute and Highway to Hell hit 2x platinum in late '84. Highway is now at 7x platinum, Salute at 4x. None of the three albums that followed Salute have passed single platinum).

Lionel Richie, Dancing On The Ceiling
(4x platinum #1 album with four top ten hits, including one #1. In comparison, previous album Can't Slow Down had five top ten hits, including 2 #1s, and eventually went 10x platinum. Lionel wouldn't even release another single until 1992, so it's hard to say how another '80s album would have done, but Dancing is definitely considered inferior to CSD).

Spice Girls, Spiceworld
(4x platinum #3 album with three top 20 hits including 1 top 10, the aptly named "Too Much". Previous album, Spice, went 7x platinum with three top 5 hits including a #1. Following album, Forever, only hit #39 and had one top 20 hit, the aptly named "Goodbye.")

Huey Lewis, Fore!
(3x platinum #1 album with 5 top ten hits including 2 #1s. In comparison, previous album Sports had four top ten hits and nothing even in the top 5 despite going 7x platinum. However, follow-up Small World only went platinum and had just one top ten hit. Spotify suggests the hits off Fore! are just as popular as the Sports hits, though. Even "Jacob's Ladder". Still, ILX has consistently dissed this album.)

Paula Abdul, Spellbound
(3x platinum #1 album with 5 top 20 hits including 2 #1s. While the previous album, Forever Your Girl went 7x platinum with 4 #1s, the follow-up to Spellbound, Head Over Heels would only go gold with one top 30 hit.)

Foreigner, Agent Provocateur
(3x platinum #4 album with the band's first #1 single. However, the follow-up Inside Information would only go single platinum and Agent has garnered fewer fewer platinum discs than any previous album - Head Games and Records actually leapfrogged it.)

Some are more debatable than others, but feel like all deserve a home if we do a poll. Any others that meet this standard?

oh also i stuck entirely to US sales and career trajectories. if someone's offended they can do whatever, i just wanted to make a long list and look at stats.

foreigner's records is a best-of fwiw

i know, but i was still surprised there was a time agent had sold more, considering records had been out for a while when agent was released

Love the long list and the stats. Will have to digest. I think point B is super crucial - you would not immediately think, seeing this album's success, that this is anything but a band in a strong position career-wise. And yet in hindsight it's also easy to see that somehow the rot had set in here, that this album kind of basically was long on singles and short on deep cuts, that it was all kind of samey, that the biggest hits were actually riding momentum, whatever it is that makes New Jersey not feel like a major record despite the killer sales profile. This ineffable "feel" is pretty key to the whole thing but hard to quantify, naturally.

How many of those were real event albums? I feel like that's the magic element, an emptiness born of mass delusion, that turns a mere Agent Provocateur into a full-blown Use Your Illusion.

that's part of why i put them in order of sales - one of could easily make the argument that 7x platinum is the cut-off. I just chose 3x platinum since Spellbound was a pretty big deal and still pretty undeniably a success.

i'm not going to go to bat for my one contribution to this thread or anything, but i am having a hard time understanding this and would love it if you'd take another shot at explaining what it means. (note: it's not you, it's me. i'm dumb.)

b) achieved enough success as not to guarantee the next one would do even worse. I left out Adrenalize because even if 3 million sold and 4 top 40 hits is kind of stunning in hindsight, it's still a Fairweather Johnson following a diamond album with 6 top 20 hits.

or maybe, to put it more clearly, why is Adrenalize a FJ and not a NJ?

regardless, nice work on that list! very impressive

I don't know much about Def Leppard, but from the Wiki info it seems like it sold well enough to be a New Jersey - four singles in the US Rock top ten, with two of them hitting #1, and the album itself is 3x platinum. Maybe not a monster but surely a hit record, right? So all that's left is to determine whether it has the general feeling of dudness, irrelevancy, and failure to contribute meaningfully to the band's reputation, that hint at New Jersey "the hit that felt like a bomb" status.

Let's bear in mind here that Fairweather Johnson debuted at #1 on the albums chart, sold copies quickly to three out of the eleven million Cracked Rear View buyers... and then started slipping immediately. First single "Old Man & Me" (a pleasant tune IMO) made #13 on the Hot 100 - respectable, but the equivalent of the previous album's fourth single "Time" (anyone remember this one?) which got to #14. The followup, "Tucker's Town," (???) barely cracked the top 40 at #38, and "Sad Caper" (nooooo idea) did not chart, which would be true of all of the band's future singles. It's a flop that also happens to be a straight career-killer. It doesn't look to me like Adrenalize is either of those things.

Now let's get the rock outta here!

(note, Cracked Rear View has shipped 16 million and sold 11 million. And either way, holy fuck, that's a lot of copies of Cracked Rear View.)

I felt like, even before it came out, no one thought Fairweather Johnson had any chance of hitting anywhere close to CRV's success. Hootie felt like a novelty, not a group with a "career" ahead of it. The reviews all seemed along the lines of "maybe they could have have kept this shit up if they had written catchier songs, but oh well"

I had never heard of Fairweather Johnson before this thread.

regardless, nice work on that list! very impressive

OTM

Plus there's the whole 'most sold back CD ever' thing

Is this based on some statistic or is it just an impression people have? I've been wondering. I can believe that a lot of people might have sold it back, although I still think Monster is a good album, one I'd easily rate over Green and probably over Out of Time.

I think it's less about Monster's actual quality and more about its longterm appeal to the audience who bought in with "Losing My Religion" and "Everybody Hurts".

still think Rattle & Hum is a New Jersey, would add it to the list; it had a movie! Doesn't get more event than that.& now they've passed it over in their deluxe edition reissue project as though it doesn't exist

5x platinum btw

Great thread. In terms of UK stuff I feel like Arctic Monkeys - Favourite Worst Nightmare was a sorta-kinda-maybe example of this.

Alright, I'm convinced, re: Adrenalize. It was definitely a consistently purchased, promoted album through 4 top 40 singles, on MTV all the time.

U2 was another one I wrestled with - on one level Rattle & Hum has a lot of New Jersey qualities, but is it really an album-album or one of those continuance albums like Zooropa and the '80s live EPs? They definitely sacrificed their Rattle & Hum personas to survive - passes the "hollow" test - but what about How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb? That managed to go 3x platinum of mega-promotion - just south of All You Can't Leave Behind's 4x plat - despite far weaker singles? And Achtung Baby was no career decline compared to No Line On The Horizon.

Though basically, while I pruned the list to the strongest arguments, if there's a strong argument to be made for a multi-platinum album I think we should throw it on in a poll. So maybe put Adrenalize, Rattle and Atomic on?

as a coda:

New Kids on the Block - Step By Step

3x platinum with two top tens, including one #1 (the title track). The third single "Let's Try It Again," however, stopped at #53. Their next album generated one top fifteen and had one less New Kid (the Old Kid left).

"3x platinum off mega-promotion" i mean xpost

yeah nkotb probably deserves inclusion for managing to get "Tonight" in the top 10.

it's probably a point in Adrenalize's favor that 10-year-old me bought maybe a dozen CDs in 1992 and that was one of them.

I keep forgetting how young some of you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTo3N73hpPg

a horseshit Beatles homage second single in the top ten really is more New Jersey than Fairweather Johnson

(and before anyone says anything, Tears For Fears' Seeds Of Love only went single platinum)

not only a Beatles homage BUT a self-reflexive commentary!

Is this based on some statistic or is it just an impression people have? I've been wondering. I can believe that a lot of people might have sold it back, although I still think Monster is a good album, one I'd easily rate over Green and probably over Out of Time.

yeah it's not a hard stat but an impression that was included in any article about Used CD stores for a while. I love Monster, but have to admit there's been a drop in its estimation over the years, esp compared to Automatic.

A couple more contenders with big lead single(s) and no legacy:

Texas - The Hush
The Killers - Day & Age

I was wondering about Coldplay, specifically Viva La Vida, but I think they've probably managed to avoid this fate.

I'd say Sam's Town more than D&A.

Coldplay may count. i was gonna say X&Y is theirs but somehow that's their biggest selling album in the UK!?

Viva La Vida is one of their biggest singles - X&Y sounded like a New Jersey but they survived it handily.

I decided I'd rock New Jersey itself this afternoon, but tbh three songs in and I'm not sure how much more I can take.

Bombast! everywhere. This appears to be an album constructed entirely of moments to be hollered along to in stadiums. Which are mostly fine in isolation, actually, but they haven't been knitted together at all. 'Bad Medicine' is completely deranged - there are about six different choruses here, but no verses and no progression; chanting crowds burst in continually; guitar solos like jet engines; the key changes randomly. It reminds me of those Jive Bunny style megamixes that were popular around the same time.

The effect is like reeling around drunkenly inside an iron maiden.

bad medicine is terrible

Worst Summer job ever was working at the Tilly Balloon Co. (the Monster artwork is one of their balloons).
Spending all day "testing" balloons. Put balloon over spigot... send air into balloon... balloon pops in your face 3x outta 10 (no, you DON'T get used to this).

Was still more fun than listening to "Monster" though.

and we could've had more medicine!

The album was initially meant to be a double album; however, this idea was rejected by the record company because they got nervous about the higher price point and decided they would only release a single album

My theory re: New Jersey is that somewhere along the line they and Fairbairn (he produced, right?) realized Hysteria was turning out huge, went "Oh shit" and mixed the album accordingly.