Has The NME Got Good?

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Not sure if you were being serious or not, but actually I've been involved in that discussion. My take on it is that Mixmag don't pretend to be anything other than a dance magazine (although seeing as the dance mags tend to cover hip hop and post-rock as well they're probably about as diverse as the NME - doesn't mean they're doing what they do particularly well though). NME on the other hand has pretensions of universality that it just does not on the whole live up to.

Tim, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Great - so now I know all about NYC - it's changed my life.

tha ill presidente, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

NYC - it was rather pointless exercise - like some free holiday advertising for New York City /State overseas marketing department. An advertorial.

Next week its Destiny's Child - another useless front cover.

DJ Martian, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Look, DJ M, the NME are not going to put Ulver on the front cover. EVER. And what is more that is the RIGHT DECISION. A feature, maybe, but not the cover.

Destiny's Child - and the NYC issue for that matter - pretty much confirm my original qn, i.e. the NME is on the right track currently. Themed issues = good. Putting the people making exciting pop records on the cover = good. The records Destiny's Child are making at the moment are terrific - there shouldn't even be a question about them being on the NME front cover.

Tom, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

As regards ABC-figures, as Marcello mentioned, the best-selling NME of the 80s (by about 300%) had CILLA BLACK on the cover.

We didn't know where to put ourselves.

mark s, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Actually I don't have any plans for Ulver - to be front cover status on my weekly weblog feature. I have mapped out in my head the next 4 weeks in advance.

However the NME should at least have a 1 page feature of Ulver.

and a significant album review - in the old MM circa late 80s- a band released a significant and exceptional album then they would be rewarded with a large review (column inches) regardless of size profile.

I will be surprised if the NME review the Ulver album - as the NME are ignorant bastards when it comes to non US/British bands.

For the curious Ulver - Perdition City

Ulver - Perdition City - is released April 23th on Jester Records through Shellshock/Pinnancle in the UK.

There are also a number of important points on the NME current music coverage - that I want to expand on. Later.

DJ Martian, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

No, it still hasn't got good.

the pinefox, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

last night, on the bus home, someone was reading thee latest NME. When he got off, he left it on the seat. Despite there being another 1/2 hour to go before I got home, I didn't bother picking it up. I suppose that's my answer right there.

x0x0

norman fay, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one month passes...
Kids! Read the NME this week! There's this cool city called New York! It's happening like London isn't! We say you should be there! Cool bands with guitars! That's the future! The Strokes! The apex of popular culture! The most important group ever to emerge from music! We're not at all desperate! We've started slagging off Missy Elliott already! What? Still listening to hip-hop? That was two months ago! Keep up!

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 8 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Death to the NME! The future of thinking and writing about pop should be left to us, we've totally-by-accident formed our little Leninist core of revolutionaries, now we just need to storm King's Reach Tower and dispose of all the counter-revolutionary journos, preferably by drowning them in a big vat of Marmite.

DG, Friday, 8 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

But they have this really exciting feature where they ask people what was the last text message they sent! How could I give up such insight into the human mind?

Nicole, Friday, 8 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Shit, forgot about that. Such value for £1.20! I've said it before and I'll say it again, the future of music writing will probably be online and fan-based.

DG, Saturday, 9 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I do believe we are standing waist-deep in the future as we speak/type.

David Raposa, Saturday, 9 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The NME? wasn't that something to do with the 90s?

gareth, Saturday, 9 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

No.

the pinefox, Saturday, 9 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Travis are on the front of this weeks issue, with a coption that proves all the Missy/DC/etc stuff was only temporary until the "real" music returned: "THE BIGGEST BAND IN BRITAIN JUST GOT BIGGER".

In what way are Travis the biggest band in Britain? Hear'say? Westlife? Destiny's Child? Atomic Kitten? How many number ones have Travis had? Their definition of "band" seems to still be confined to a) Not manufactured (Whatever that means) b) Play guitars (and only guitars - none of this electronic nonsense) c) Male. It's the equivalent of Fruit and Veg Magazine putting Greengrocer Of The Year on the cover and describing them as "THE GREATEST PERSON WHO EVER LIVED", provided by "person" they mean "greengrocer".

Graham, Thursday, 21 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Graham, I love you.

Nick, Friday, 22 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

...well Travis have just had the biggest first week sales for any number one album this year and is predicted to be the biggest selling album of the year in the UK. They might have a point.

But to get back to the subject...I think NME has changed for the better this year, but basically there just isn't enough to read in it that's interesting.

Maybe it's trying to be all things to all people, when it will always be synonymous with indie/leftfield music. Personally I don't mind reading about Destiny's Child or Outkast as long as it's interesting. But people are going to read Mix Mag, Hip Hop Connection whatever, if they are really into the dance, hip-hop or R'n'B scenes.

What was it that Matt from Sarah Records once said..."if you're a fan of jangley guitars then you're narrow minded. If you're a hip-hop fan then you are a specialist." or something like that.

GD, Friday, 22 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

that's a stupid thing to say, typical of such insular minds. hip-hop is a genre in which it's impossible to be deeply into whilst still being "specialist" simply because its foundations are in turning parasitism into innovation (n.b., i'm not saying this is a bad thing at all).

to be heavily into hip-hop, understand the push/pull it enacts, you can't be fascistic about it, which is why the holier than thou attitude taken on by much of the uk hip-hop underground (trying to put pop in a cage where it can be looked at but not touched) - and, i suppose, that of our transatlantic counterparts as well - irks so much.

Izzie, Friday, 22 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

that didn't come out quite right: was saying matt sarah was insular not anyone else.

Izzie, Friday, 22 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Izzie - I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but I do know that there isn't one musical genre out there that doesn't have its share of closed-minded tunnel-vision purist ayatollahs, hip hop definitely included.

Patrick, Friday, 22 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"Some of the freelances approached NME's brand director, Steve Sutherland, asking to renegotiate the clauses. But after an initial meeting with Mr Sutherland, they claim to have heard nothing further." MediaGuardian, June 20
What on Earth is a 'brand director', eh?

DG, Monday, 25 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm Freaky Trigger's Brand Director. So there.

Tom, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Steve Sutherland is eee-vil and has been the recipient of an IPC pay packet for about 20 years now. 'Director' is what editors become when they get kicked upstairs, and rather than commission writing their job is to think of all sorts of reasons not to, while wearing a suit. Anyway, I'm not buying the NME or hitting their site until the followinbg is resolved:

NME freelancers are being told to sign these horrible new agreements. Say, for example, someone gets to do a feature with Destiny's Child. The writer turns in a pretty good interview but has some material left over. The LA Weekly or someone asks for that writer to file a piece on same. Under the terms of the NME's new agreement, they wouldn't be able to because the NME would own, forever, the TAPE of the interview and any other out-takes.

Any freelance who doesn't sign does not get any more work from the paper/website. They are paid something like 15p a word for work they do, which is a lot less than you can get for selling interviews to the American market or a British newspaper, and they have none of the benefits of being on staff, usually no retainer even. It's patently unfair to ask those without job security to agree to such terms, and 20 writers are looking into a potential case against IPC for restraint of trade/intellectual property rights etc. If you want to know more, Tom, ask Angus Batey to fill you in. I think he was the one who went to the Guardian in the first place.

The best part of the story DG's quoting? 'Mr Sutherland was unavailable for comment.' Now there's a great big fuckin' first!

suzy, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"to sutherland": to take downmarket, to reduce journalistic quality, to sensationalise, to tabloidise ("the sutherlanded Melody Maker").

Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

That shit will really help them, won't it? I give the NME till the end of the year before it goes the same way as the Melody Maker.

DG, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

NME The veteran title recorded an 8.2% period-on-period decline to 70,003, with 8% of that drop taking place in the past six months.

Source Media Guardian Feb 2001

I would think that if the NME dropped below 50,000 a week then questions would be asked about its future.

Sounds closed at around around 39,000 sales in 1991, Melody Maker closed at 32,500 sales in Dec 2000.

However much I dislike NME's music direction in 2001 To lose 20,000 sales from Feb 2001 to the end of the year, is unlikely.

DJ Martian, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

They will if I genectically engineer some form of paper-eating louse that is attracted to the bad journalism of the NME. Or they keep printing obviously made-up letters in the letters page that say "We love you NME", only elaborate a bit more. Or they persist in this Strokes nonsense.

DG, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Isn't the NME coming up to its 50th anniversary fairly soon? Don't think IPC will close it before they celebrate this 'milestone'...

Andrew L, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

To clarify: until recently, freelance journalists enjoyed 'one use' rights, meaning, they have the right to sell on their copy etc. once the issue containing their writing is no longer current. I sometimes sell on interviews to an online syndication agency after they've appeared in mags that don't have sites. Obviously, the long-life nature of online journalism complicates matters and many magazines and newspapers have upped their freelance rates a smidgen in recognition of this.

When the Guardian went online it sent around a fait accompli letter to anyone submitting freelance work that said The Guardian owned the reprint rights on each piece submitted; notification of this fact equalled an expectation of compliance. A lot of people stopped dealing with them afterward because the freelance rate did not rise one jot. What's going on at the NME is about a million times worse, and might be one reason the thing appears to be written by monkeys and Muppets these days - good writers often have annoying characteristics like principles and the tendency to disagree with the logic of their 'superiors' at work.

I don't think the NME will go down the pan because the site gets a gazillion hits every week. Brand manager is the perfect job for an Oxbridge, sexist skinhead Muppet like Sutherland, the job can do itself.

suzy, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Sutherland is a scummer too - he supports Southamp[scum]ton FC.

Do the freelancers laugh at the Travis, Stereophonics, The Strokes and Linkin Park front covers ..like the rest of us?

Who decides on the NME front covers Sutherland or Knowles or 16 year old work experience kids on a focus market research panel? I want to identify blame.

DJ Martian, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Keith Cameron left the NME to go to rival publishers EMAP to work on Mojo. Why did he leave? As he one was one of the few decent writers at the NME [he started out at Sounds in the 80s.]

Also I noticed that Mojo are seeking a new editor at the mo Advert

DJ Martian, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

They also want a website editor... could this be my new career? mwah hah hah! Oh wait... deep understanding of Mojo. No, I don't understand Mojo, so never mind.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Well, Mark Sutherland supports Portsmouth, if that makes you feel any better.

But did you see the piece Keith Cameron wrote on Travis for the Guardian Weekend? I found it frighteningly ambivalent, as though he was just *describing* the situation where they have got so big, and he just didn't seem motivated to speak out against it. Maybe age has hit him where it hurts, but his pro-Oasis rhetoric wasn't what I wanted to read from the NME *at all* in 1995.

Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

No missed that Travis article and can't remember Keith Cameron on Oasis. Anything page/article with Oasis on I use to skip it as their music did not interest me one bit in 1995 or now.

Mark Sutherland - a pompey fan - well that is suprising.

DJ Martian, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Martian: who decides?

Definitely the editor, after feedback in editorial meetings, with pressure from upstairs. Yes, the freelancers do often laugh themselves sick at the choices made by the above. I actually don't think they're focus groupies at the NME (and anyway, no focus group I've ever been privy to asks for specifics about content, more general areas or should the spine be book-bound rather than stapled, yada yada). That's Emap's department: a pal of mine who once edited one of their music mags was rung on Boxing Day by the big cheese to be told if his cover choice didn't pan out, heads would roll.

Also, access is controlled by PR's who grant exclusives based on the promise of A Cover ('my client will not get out of bed for less than 5000 words') and how arsey the paper's tone has been to the other artists they represent. NME will generally be in the same queue for coverage as Mixmag, The Face, Q, Mojo. Dazed and Confused. i-D and Sleazenation choose who to cover based on sneakier means; getting early access to photographs because one of their people, say Wolfgang Tillmans or Juergen Teller or Corinne Day, has done a shoot (photographers have much, much better phone books than most editors). If style mags have the photos, then they have a powerful bargaining tool with the PRs who represent the artiste. No PR company would get angry at a 'cool' photographer for this kind of scoop, as they lend the artiste cred and in many cases get commissions from the record company direct.

Hate to be all insider/media ho' about this, but I think it's my duty, after 10 years' experience of these matters, to put that to use demystifying the media's methods.

suzy, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

More insider/meeja hoar info, please Suzy! I am utterly fascinated by the way it all works. My former friends at NME and MM have by this time become so disgusted with the entire process, that they have fled to other occupations and can no longer dish the dirt. I love to be horrified by the behind the scenes mechanations, even as they make me start to even loathe music.

That was the eye-opening thing inside books like _Powder_ - not the "Oh my god, rock stars are perverted, and singer/songwriters are ego-ridden gits" bit of it, but the insider (manager) information on how things like "cover articles" get handed out.

Then again, I suppose knowing too much can really leave a distaste in the mouth. If someone chose to do a Popstars style expose on how even the "indie"s are completely mechanised, I think I would move to Alaska with ProTools and never leave the house again.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Kate: totally. It does make me cynical about the process knowing how it works, but on the other hand it could never make me hate music. If I had 50p for every sneering comment I've had off the recording artists I know re. The Press I'd be very wealthy indeed. The best is when they insinuate you're less intellectual than them or some kind of whore for doing journalism, or think they're too high up the ladder to treat you with the civility you always show to them. PR's can be worse: they always moan that we ask for 'free' records and tickets to things but are the first people to moan if you're out of touch with what's happening. As if freelancers could ever afford to buy them; usually we're one step ahead of the bailiffs because some twunt hasn't paid us on time.

BTW my first job in London was, you guessed it, NME freelancer. I ran away to join the Riot Grrrls, as any sensible female would.

suzy, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

the same clan as Anjali?

Anjali

DJ Martian, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Yeah, she's a friend of mine. We used to be near neighbours, but she moved about 18 months ago so I only see her from time to time. London, eh?

suzy, Tuesday, 26 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

i did read the travis piece in the guardian. i thought the ambivalence of the piece was appropriate. i didn't think it needed cameron to *speak out*, the 'just describing' thing allowed travis to paint themselves as they wanted to be, and as they are.

gareth, Wednesday, 27 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Suzy- I guess it does not make me hate *music* per se, but it certainly does make me hate the *music biz* (including but not limited to The Music Press, record companies, PR and pluggers, etc.) and that suspicion can spill over into everything else. It can turn mere dislike that would previously mean ignoring into a bitter crusade of loathing (see The Strokes) and I have experienced a certain loss of the ability to "fall in love with" a band. You know, that feeling when you see a band live or hear a record for the first time, and listen utterly freely. I always find myself wondering what the angle is, what the catch is. Or perhaps that is just called growing up.

I would be interested in hearing your experiences of Riot Grrl, and whether you think it and its daughters have accomplished anything, but that's probably another thread.

Funny thing about "The Press" is... most musicians are unable to separate "The Press" (a faceless, corporate entity controlled by Brand Directors in IPC Towers) from the individual, badly paid, often cynical freelancers that are sent to review and/or interview them. Remember that musicians have been as badly burned by the Suits Upstairs as the freelancers have been, they just don't know it. (And vice versa)

masonic boom, Wednesday, 27 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

At Wire in 1992, we ran a policy of NO PEOPLE ON THE COVER for c.ten months — among other things we had a cardboard skull, a record, a toy robot, an opium poppy, an armchair, and, er , Brian Eno... Across the country millions failed to buy it each month, which was part of our Wire-Branes-Up strategy. I changed the policy when Thurston Moore told me to.

mark s, Wednesday, 27 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Those were the best issues of the Wire ever, too. One of your disgruntled ex-subscribers gave a load of them to Bookworm Books in Leatherhead and I got them for 20p each. "Blimey what is all this strange music" I asked myself, and bought none of it.

Tom, Wednesday, 27 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

cross-posted from a mailing list that some of us are on, I thought this was an interesting commentary on "what the heck is going on here?" times at the NME right now:

ht tp://news.independent.co.uk/uk/media/story.jsp?story=80594

Upmarket? Rolling Stone? What the blinkin' 'eck?

masonic boom, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Thanks Kate - you beat me to it. Saw it last night to looking for schnews on the freelancer crisis. Agggghhhhh...

suzy, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Doesn't mean they actually intend to ape the Stone: just means they want to shape a raison d'etre for an audience positional shift which ADVERTISERS (who don't read editorial, just ABCs and ad pages) understand. Stone sells = grate, to the adman. NME changes, fins a niche, sells = grate also. and adman doesn't give a fuck - or even notice - how utterly unlike RS it is.

It's all games.

Anyone got anything on David Lister? Name = familiar. Every time I read that Zappa quote (always quoted by eeevil sold-out pea- brains like Simon Hoggart) I find I despise FZ more.

mark s, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Check the Grauniad's version:

suzy, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

it's

http://www.mediaguardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/ 0,7495,513257,00.html

suzy, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Gosh, is that the NME's way of basically saying "we have dumbed down our lowest common denominator approach to Chart Pop to the point where even we can't stand it any more..."?

Circulation is dropping, but the website is increasing... so why the heck don't they take advantage of the nature of the internet to increase it even further beyond just a print version of the reviews, and a live news feed? Oh, I'm going to start ranting again, see remarks on the "what do you want from the press" thread.

masonic boom, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

he's not, he's pete simons :)

this is either forgetfulness on viv's part or the long-stewed beef of some ancient feud

mark s, Friday, 9 March 2018 12:39 (six years ago) link

Grauniad?

Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Friday, 9 March 2018 12:43 (six years ago) link

i blame Alba

mark s, Friday, 9 March 2018 12:46 (six years ago) link

for some reason the swells phrase which sticks with me comes from a mid-90s interview where he takes issue with some feeble waif of a frontman (possibly rick witter) and asks if he'd not prefer to be stalking the stage 'encased in 250lbs of rock-hard raw beef'

War, Famine, Pestilence, Death, Umami (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 9 March 2018 13:25 (six years ago) link

just realised that i have academic access to rock's back pages and thus i can confirm that swells did indeed use that exact phrase in conversation with rick witter in an article published on 9 may 1998, meaning it's been rattling around my brain for almost exactly 20 years :(

War, Famine, Pestilence, Death, Umami (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 9 March 2018 13:37 (six years ago) link

"When I am dead and opened, you shall find Calais engraved on my heart" — Queen Mary

^^it's like this but world-historical

mark s, Friday, 9 March 2018 13:42 (six years ago) link

also we have to open your head

mark s, Friday, 9 March 2018 13:42 (six years ago) link

i can't remember this morning's commute but i can remember something an nme hack yelled at the singer from shed seven three decades ago

War, Famine, Pestilence, Death, Umami (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 9 March 2018 13:47 (six years ago) link

i feel like my head is already open tbh

War, Famine, Pestilence, Death, Umami (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 9 March 2018 13:48 (six years ago) link

irl lolled at rock's back pages revelation

just noticed tears shaped like florida. (sic), Friday, 9 March 2018 16:37 (six years ago) link

three months pass...

A classic from the the Steve Sutherland era

Oof. Here's the original NME review of Baduizm. Yikes. pic.twitter.com/RXCXw6LSwY

— Caspar Salmon (@CasparSalmon) July 5, 2018

Alba, Friday, 6 July 2018 07:01 (five years ago) link

one year passes...

Music magazine NME's switch to all digital format led to a 72% collapse in reader engagement:
https://www.mediaite.com/print/heres-what-magazines-lose-when-they-go-digital-only/

Online readers of NME only spend an average of about three minutes a month with the publication, per the study, while print readers spent an average of about a half-hour a week with the magazine.

[...]

NME was founded in 1952. The publication was acquired earlier this year by the Singapore-based company BandLab Technologies and was previously owned by Time Inc., which made the decision to end the print product.

insecurity bear (sic), Tuesday, 19 November 2019 01:09 (four years ago) link

Well, there it isn't.

Mark G, Tuesday, 19 November 2019 07:34 (four years ago) link

two years pass...

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