Actually, all these films are broken save for the first two.
not true -- 'othello,' 'trial,' 'chimes,' and 'immortal story' all came out exactly the way welles wanted them.
By "broken," I didn't necessarily mean "not as Welles wanted them." I'm using it more to denote a kind of "inorganic" quality, e.g. the crummy soundtrack of Chimes which suits the film thematically and makes it all the greater.
But I don't see how you can say that Othello "came out exactly the way welles wanted (it)." For one thing, Welles clearly "wanted" it several different ways as he edited at least two different versions of it in the 1950s. For another, the various 1990s "restorations" created different artifacts, ones that most likely do not conform to how Welles would have wanted it.
All of which only augments the vertiginous pleasures of Welles fandom.
― Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 1 August 2008 08:56 (fifteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― ILX System, Tuesday, 5 August 2008 23:01 (fifteen years ago) link
you know, in retrospect, Kane is the best, and you're all being contrarians.
― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 13:22 (fifteen years ago) link
contrarian, zing thyself
― David R., Wednesday, 6 August 2008 13:25 (fifteen years ago) link
You voted for Othello, Morbs! It isn't even his best Shakespeare film.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 13:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Well I voted for Kane, so I win
― Tom D., Wednesday, 6 August 2008 13:33 (fifteen years ago) link
Alfred likes Macbeth, easily his worst Shakes film!
― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 13:36 (fifteen years ago) link
I haven't seen either his Othello or his Macbeth, but they'd have to be serious best-of-all-time material to be any better than Chimes.
― Eric H., Wednesday, 6 August 2008 16:27 (fifteen years ago) link
Macbeth is definitely not better than CAM.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 16:44 (fifteen years ago) link
the greatest het exchange in Hollywood history
which begs the question ...
― Eric H., Wednesday, 6 August 2008 16:52 (fifteen years ago) link
You're up at bat, Eric.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 16:53 (fifteen years ago) link
ambersons is sooo close, but I have to go with f for fake.
― t0dd swiss, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 21:09 (fifteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― ILX System, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:01 (fifteen years ago) link
dude wtf with the low Touch of Evil showing! guess I should've voted but I refrained cuz I haven't seen a bunch of these
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:02 (fifteen years ago) link
Answer: it's not that good.
― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:03 (fifteen years ago) link
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8894/kaneklapqo6.gif
― wilter, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:07 (fifteen years ago) link
Oh ILX, will your surprise poll results never cease?
― Eric H., Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:41 (fifteen years ago) link
I request that from now on all ILX instances of the Welles slow clap be replaced with Heath Ledger Joker slow clap
― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:43 (fifteen years ago) link
lol I was going to post both of them
― wilter, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:43 (fifteen years ago) link
Never seen The Immortal Story. Is this available?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:43 (fifteen years ago) link
no, but it gets an occasional late-night showing on TCM.
― J.D., Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:46 (fifteen years ago) link
how the hell did i note vote in this
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:48 (fifteen years ago) link
would have voted touch of evil ftw
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 6 August 2008 23:49 (fifteen years ago) link
ilx
― PappaWheelie V, Thursday, 7 August 2008 01:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Ambersons Ambersons Ambersons. Even what survives of it dwarves most filmmakers entire oeuvres
Touch of Evil = extremely overrated tho
― Vichitravirya_XI, Thursday, 7 August 2008 03:14 (fifteen years ago) link
ppl who voted for Arkadin or F for Fake: banned from filmwatching
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 August 2008 13:11 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm under the impression both are perfectly respectable choices. In fact, I'm under the impression anything short of The Fountain of Youth or The Hearts of Age is a respectable choice.
― Eric H., Thursday, 7 August 2008 14:37 (fifteen years ago) link
no way! The Stranger?!
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 7 August 2008 14:37 (fifteen years ago) link
I can see maybe saying that re: Arkadin (although I adore the shit out of it) but F for Fake? Please to explain.
― Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 7 August 2008 14:43 (fifteen years ago) link
it's a cute stunt. Doesn't operate on anywhere the number of levels that Kane, Ambersons, ToE, Othello etc do. Unless you fall for, OHHHH, MAGIC / HOAXES / REALITY, AH'M SOOO KONFUZED...
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 August 2008 14:50 (fifteen years ago) link
Touch of Evil doesn't really work on "the number of levels" either, but then again, I partially buy into Kael's pronouncement of Kane as a "shallow masterpiece" and don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
― Eric H., Thursday, 7 August 2008 14:52 (fifteen years ago) link
What people often miss when they get het up over Kael's remark is that she italicized "shallow." She wasn't at all denying that CK was a great film deserving all the kudos.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 7 August 2008 14:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, me neither. The deeper I think you get into Kane, the less rewarding, but if you just hang out at the surface, yeah, it's one of the greatest movies evah, obv.
― Eric H., Thursday, 7 August 2008 14:55 (fifteen years ago) link
ToE is the one I'd call the shallow masterpiece; brilliantly executed, and still "just" a tarted-up dirty-cop grinder. At least Welles never made a horror film. ;)
Kane's biggest weaknesses are in the parts of the dialogue where the Poor Little Rich Man theme is made overexplicit (more OW than Mankiewicz? I'll have to reread that Callow bio to check).
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 August 2008 14:58 (fifteen years ago) link
also, Simon Callow points out in his vol 2 that if Ambersons had been released acc to OW's wishes, there still would've been imperfect things about it, starting with the curious casting of Tim Holt.
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:00 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, no perfection in this filmography, thankfully.
― Eric H., Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:02 (fifteen years ago) link
I don't mind Holt much anymore. His awkwardness helps the character, and he does look chastened at the end.
Other Kane weaknesses: the chronology of the first marriage and meeting Suzie is muddled; "What would you like to have been?" "Everything you hate!"; and Thompson's last speech.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:04 (fifteen years ago) link
Tim Holt is fine
― Tom D., Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:05 (fifteen years ago) link
but he's the wrong kind of (cowboy) actor! Not a persuasive silver-spoon Hoosier brat.
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:07 (fifteen years ago) link
He persuaded me. I wanted to smack the shit out of him.
― Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:09 (fifteen years ago) link
Seth Rogen for the remake, then.
― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:10 (fifteen years ago) link
I bet Holt could have pulled off Mozart in Amadeus.
― Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:10 (fifteen years ago) link
He's much more in his element in The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, sure.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:11 (fifteen years ago) link
I don't know if F For Fake is all that great a film, but the section with Welles's monologue on Chartres cathedral is one of my favourite things in all cinema.
― Alba, Thursday, 7 August 2008 15:21 (fifteen years ago) link
i've decided to celebrate the new year by rewatching all of OW's films in order. anyone with me?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 7 January 2010 04:07 (fourteen years ago) link
― Alba, Thursday, 7 August 2008 16:21 (1 year ago)
pretty much came here to post this
F For Fake is an awesome and compelling mindfuck and OW is like some sort of sly jovial God lumbering with Iberian aspect throughout a maze of artistic deflections
― some men enjoy the feeling of being owned (acoleuthic), Sunday, 30 May 2010 19:56 (thirteen years ago) link
before Morbs leaps on me though I gotta say I need to see more Welles - only seen Othello aside from this
― some men enjoy the feeling of being owned (acoleuthic), Sunday, 30 May 2010 19:58 (thirteen years ago) link
Why on earth are Chimes and Ambersons not available on DVD??? Very frustrating.
― Moreno, Monday, 1 November 2010 17:07 (thirteen years ago) link
in the case of Chimes, rights disputes I'm sure.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 November 2010 17:12 (thirteen years ago) link
it'd be sad to watch these on youtube but i guess that's what i'll have to do.
― Moreno, Monday, 1 November 2010 17:14 (thirteen years ago) link
trying to go through all the ones I haven't seen yet and if there's a worst one I think Alfred is right, it's the Stranger
love everything else to varying degrees. still need to see Othello, the Immortal Story and the Fountain of Youth
― Οὖτις, Friday, 19 October 2018 15:53 (five years ago) link
The Stranger is the most nakedly commercial, and i always found it totally fine. Mr Arkadin and The Trial, while more ambitious and... stranger, take some getting used to.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 19 October 2018 15:57 (five years ago) link
it's not that The Stranger is bad, it's just that everything else is better! Or at least has more interesting things going on. Welles' performance isn't remotely convincing, and the rest seems fairly standard.
Mr. Arkadin is bonkers and a lot of the cast is appropriately scenery-chewing (my favorite being Welles drunkenly staggering around on the swaying boat) so although it is a mess in terms of narrative and pacing I give it points for being fitfully engaging instead of just boring.
Visually the Trial is fantastic. The constant jabbery overdubbed Welles' dialogue gets soporific though.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 19 October 2018 16:03 (five years ago) link
just saw lady from shanghai (part of a double feature — touch of evil is next). as I’m sure everyone agrees, the ending is fantastic. welles’ accent didn’t bother me nearly as much as the sound editing (unless it was just the theater?). I thought the courtroom scenes were probably the weakest part of the movie, and while she is very easy to look at, all the closeups of hayworth were a little distracting, but overall a really good film. agree with clemenza about grisby’s entrance
― k3vin k., Sunday, 23 June 2019 20:26 (four years ago) link
imo, F for Fake is hugely overrated. The idea was clever, but not enough to carry a full length film, and certainly not a full length film as poorly executed as that one was.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 23 June 2019 21:11 (four years ago) link
alright touch of evil fucking ruled
― k3vin k., Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:30 (four years ago) link
the opening long shot, wow, I need to find that and watch it again
some incredible performances in this — welles especially, heston, andthat fortune-teller lady
a really unnervingly charming blend of camp and menace
― k3vin k., Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:43 (four years ago) link
andthat fortune-teller lady
― If I were a POLL I’d be Zinging (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:46 (four years ago) link
touch of evil gets better every time i see it, there isn't really another movie that's anything like it
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 24 June 2019 01:21 (four years ago) link
otm
― godfellaz (darraghmac), Monday, 24 June 2019 02:17 (four years ago) link
― k3vin k., Sunday, June 23, 2019
I had the pleasure of showing it in my film class last Thursday, and I was delighted that half the class rode the groove even when it unnerved them. The idea of Heston playing a Mexican amused them; the quasi-rape scene did not.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 June 2019 03:36 (four years ago) link
I was a little more nagged-at by The Lady from Shanghai's filler when I watched it last night: the courtroom stuff (although Everett Sloane's soliloquy about Welles's fate is memorable), and, if I'm honest, just a lot of the film when they're not in the aquarium and not in the funhouse. The story is convoluted and absurd (hardly an anomaly in the world of noir). But those two scenes and Glenn Anders as Grisby make up for everything (Rita Hayworth in a sailor suit, too). Grisby is like Timothy Carey in The Killing, or Joseph Wiseman in Detective Story (or Dennis Weaver in Touch of Evil)--it's hard to say if Anders is even trying to remain in sync with the film you're watching, or if he's simply off doing some other movie known only to him, and if the two happen to intersect, all the better. Visually, the aquarium scene is somewhat of a practice run for the funhouse later on, and the funhouse sequence was the clip I showed my last few primary classes in trying to demonstrate what a film director did. The original trailer for the film is on YouTube--there is conspicuously nothing from the funhouse sequence, suggesting that Welles wanted to extract every last iota of astonishment from anyone who went to see the film. (There's a fan trailer that uses the funhouse liberally.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3lW5UKsbP4
― clemenza, Thursday, 23 December 2021 16:36 (two years ago) link
k*r*g*rg* has The Other Side Of The Wind
Strange way to spell "Netflix".
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 24 December 2021 17:51 (two years ago) link
Tbf that post was made 10 years before it was on Netflix.
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 24 December 2021 19:56 (two years ago) link