Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

doh

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/heQi0AZBH-0/mqdefault.jpg

The neat thing about Monster being a New Jersey is that it was dramatic style shift that America bought and then quickly regretted. Usually a New Jersey is a MORE OF WHAT YOU LOVE kind of album, but I guess while Monster certainly wasn't a "more nightswimming!" album, it was in touch enough with the post-grunge vibe that people didn't get grossed out until after the fact.

"Hands" was the big hit from Spirit.

Yes it was, which is the point; we're looking for a massive album that clearly telegraphs that the band was on a full tilt slide out of vogue and is retroactively embarrassing/terrible.

Well Jeckel Bros. is probably their least retroactively embarrassing/terrible release, and ICP was never really in vogue

Well Jeckel Bros. is probably their least retroactively embarrassing/terrible release

this does not compute at all

although looking back at the track list it looks like "Piggy Pie" was actually on Milenko so maybe I should be backing that one

its also got "The Neden Game" which is the one track even people who hate ICP tend to like

Rock Of The Westies, mentioned a while back, is a good one I think. Debuted at #1 on the Billboard chart, yet "Island Girl" was the only charting single, and I struggled to remember any song titles without looking it up. Pretty neglected/forgotten about today?

yeah survivors like Elton always muddy the waters a bit - he put out "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" the same year - but Rock definitely seems like a bloom is off the rose moment

Roll With It and Crash, good thoughts.

Tangentially, there were a lot of slumpy followups in those years: Edie Brickell, Ghost of a Dog; Lisa Loeb, Firecracker; Tori Amos, Under the Pink. I don't think the foregoing are "huge artists," though, rite?

Winwood had been huge-ish because of SDG and Blind Faith, but I don't think the audience for "Roll with It" was the same audience as for Blind Faith (or, for that matter, Arc of a Diver).

BTW, "I Go to Extremes" and "Matter of Trust" are still in my head as much as any Joel is (which is not that much, but still) "Remember the Time" was my high school class's prom song.

Aerosmith - Nine Lives

that was a big dropoff from Get A Grip, though -- GAG sold as much as Pump, but maybe it's too well remembered for its videos to be a New Jersey?

btw does anyone else hear Fred Armisen as David Paterson saying "New JERSEY!" in their head a lot while reading this thread?

i do now

George's Living in the Material World is a good one

yeah aerosmith's tough - Nine Lives was definitely a #1 debut BIG EVENT album but tanked fast. Get A Grip's singles were so similar SNL made a joke out of it, so I could see the argument they were already being propped up by Alicia Silverstone, but really their entire Geffen run was so on borrowed time that I don't see anyone begrudging the hits.

i still hear "Livin' On The Edge" on rock stations, i wonder if any '90s hits' stations play any of the Silverstone trilogy anymore

ha -- heard "Crazy" yesterday morning on the eighties/nineties station

that kinda lovin' sends a man right to his grave

I remember being amazed at how long "Cryin'" was played on the radio until I realized I was actually hearing "Crazy"

lol

Debbie Gibson - Electric Youth

i honestly considered that the other day but vetoed myself since I still remembered the hooks to the two biggest hits, plus I don't know if it sounds any less hollow than the debut. Others more invested may feel differently.

like "straight up" and "opposites attract" definitely get more love than "promise of a new day" and "rush rush" but do people really rate "foolish beat" above "lost in your eyes" or whatever?

If so, then Step By Step probably counts

the presence of "Vibeology" drags the whole thing into New Jersey territory imo

there's this blurry zone between a New Jersey and a flop that we hit a lot, the "commercial disappointment" that still does honorable business. Part of what makes New Jersey so interesting is that for anyone else it'd be HUGE. Like Spellbound - anyone would love having five top 20 hits off an album, but it feels like the beginning of the end now.

New Jersey rolled out a lot like Country albums do--two years after its predecessor, just after the singles from the last album had stopped coming out, and is pretty similar to that other album. A lot of other follow-ups to massive hits come after an extended break, and the artist has either "matured" or the music scene has changed.

Part of what makes New Jersey so interesting is that for anyone else it'd be HUGE

I don't think most artists would complain if they had Bon Jovi's post-NJ career either: going by Wiki, five platinum/multi-platinum albums and two gold albums in the US (only considering studio album), 8 Top 40 singles in the US, still touring stadiums 25 years after their biggest album.

so instead of studying for a test i'm trying to come up with TIERS

the New Jersey: a huge event album that's massive by all reasonable standards but is shadowed by the album(s) that ironically are the only reason it was massive, since it was pretty damn shallow on its own merits (i.e. New Jersey, Spellbound, For Those About To Rock, Spirits Having Flown, Afterburner, Fore!, Be Here Now in the UK)

the Fairweather Johnson: a huge event album that still sells better than it should've thanks to the band's previous success, but one could almost immediately sense fortunes going considerably southward even if one was a fan (i.e. Fairweather Johnson, Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie, Nine Lives, Be Here Now in the US)

haha dude you've taken this and run with it

but i think those are totally valid distinctions to make, the fundamental difference is that the Fairweather Johnson is viewed as underperforming or being slightly disappointing AT THE TIME, the New Jersey is only revealed in the fullness of time.

lol yeah sorry if i'm hijacking or anything, i just love this shit.

I don't think most artists would complain if they had Bon Jovi's post-NJ career either: going by Wiki, five platinum/multi-platinum albums and two gold albums in the US (only considering studio album), 8 Top 40 singles in the US, still touring stadiums 25 years after their biggest album.

yeah, though there was a serious drop off stateside after New Jersey, these guys were fucking troopers

more simply, everyone thinks a New Jersey is a Slippery When Wet at the time

you're not hijacking at all! i hadn't really thought it out ever but it was just kicking around in my head.

in movies this is Return of the Jedi

I don't think Spirits Having Flown is a New Jersey, I hear "Too Much Heaven" & "Love You Inside Out" too much for that. though the last time I heard "Love You Inside Out" was at a restaurant in Paris, & it was followed up by "Call Me Maybe", so really who knows

in movies this is Return of the Jedi

― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Wednesday, August 8, 2012 6:31 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

woah, totally.

yeah i was wondering re: bee gees if it was different in europe, in America I have a real sense that despite being #1s, "Tragedy" "Love You Inside Out" and "Too Much Heaven" get nowhere the play of the Saturday Night Fever/Main Course stuff.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cc/Lethal_Weapon_3_Poster.jpg

LOL re: Jedi, otm

Not sure I buy Fairweather Johnson as an 'event album,' but take that phrase out and it's a really useful category - things that sold massively in the first weeks, entirely on the momentum of the previous record, then died completely as everyone either realized it wasn't as good, or that the moment had simply passed. SFIJ is in this category, and probably a ton more much-hyped flops that are technically non-flops since they sold a million plus and had a ''hit'' in the first single (before the jig was up). The New Jersey is a much, much smaller club; I feel like this thread has maybe produced a dozen or fifteen, total, in between all the cult hits (not relevant), flop records (New Jerseys are successful, i like Elrond's point that they appear to be Slipperys) and ordinary sophomore slumps (which don't enjoy even the momentum sales of a Fairweather Johnson).

Xpost Re: Bee Gees, this may be a US/Europe divide. None of those songs are US radio regulars, although I did hear a dude request ''Tragedy'' a few weeks ago.

"Tragedy" rules so I'd be offended if it was forgotten entirely.

But yeah, re: Fairweathers forget "event album" - it's just a good way for us to make New Jersey a more exclusive honor

There's a phenomenon that's similar which I would dub the Journey Through The Secret Life of Plants (AKA the One From the Heart, in the film world), which is the instance wherein a respected artist, after having poured themselves into a critically-acclaimed and commercially successful work, basically opens up the pressure valve and sees a concurrent downturn in their critical and commercial success.

Step By Step def one.

Step By Step SO otm

Old Lunch, by "pressure valve," you mean doing what they want, marketplace be damned?

I don't know the band's discography well enough to pick one, but I have to believe the White Stripes have a New Jersey, right?

chocolate starfish and the hotdog flavored water

50 cent - the massacre

yeah i was wondering re: bee gees if it was different in europe, in America I have a real sense that despite being #1s, "Tragedy" "Love You Inside Out" and "Too Much Heaven" get nowhere the play of the Saturday Night Fever/Main Course stuff.

― da croupier, Wednesday, August 8, 2012 4:33 PM (4 hours ago)

Same thing happened with Andy Gibb's three U.S. number ones though the local old school R&B station where I live revived "I Just Want to Be Your Everything" and it seems to have stuck around.

Old Lunch, by "pressure valve," you mean doing what they want, marketplace be damned?

Nah, I just mean there's a clear sense that, after serving up this magnum opus that ate up years of their lives (and possibly shaved a few off the back end), they're going to be putting significantly less than 100% of themselves into all subsequent efforts. The implicit statement being, "Well, I can't top that, so instead of even making that foolish attempt, I'm just gonna relax and have a mid-level career from here on out."

I don't know the band's discography well enough to pick one, but I have to believe the White Stripes have a New Jersey, right?

satan imo

so I just tried to compile a list of some of the biggest examples of this phenomenon with the reasoning. I tried to stick to albums that
a) sold at least 3 million copies.
b) achieved enough success as not to guarantee the next one would do even worse. I left out Adrenalize because even if 3 million sold and 4 top 40 hits is kind of stunning in hindsight, it's still a Fairweather Johnson following a diamond album with 6 top 20 hits.
c) few would argue these albums have been found wanting in hindsight - and wanting compared to their previous work (excluded seger and bizkit cuz i don't know people are raving about the Significant Other and Stranger In Town hits considerably more than Chocolate Starfish and Against The Wind hits, even if those latter albums were the end of their strongest sales period).

Garth Brooks, Sevens
(10x platinum #1 album with 4 top 5 country hits including 2 #1s. The previous album, Fresh Horses, went 7x platinum and also had 4 top 5 country hits including 2 #1s. However, Sevens was notorious for its heavy promotion, and his Chris Gaines follow-up only went 2x platinum. When he finally released another studio non-Christmas country album, it was his lowest seller - still 5x platinum - and his last to date.)

Backstreet Boys, Black & Blue
(8x platinum #1 album with two top 40 hits, including one top ten. The previous album went 13x platinum with four top 40 hits, including two top tens. The next album only went platinum. Notably, the hits comp released a year after Black & Blue only went platinum, too.)

Bon Jovi, New Jersey
(7x platinum #1 album with 5 top ten hits including 2 #1s. In comparison, previous album Slippery When Wet had only 3 top ten hits despite eventually going 12x platinum. However, follow-up Keep The Faith was a 2x platinum #5 album with 1 top ten hit. The three Slippery hits rank #1, 3 &4 in popularity on Spotify. While the two #1s from NJ make the top ten, you have to scroll past umpteen "Living On A Prayers" and "Always"s and "Bed of Roses"s to get to the other hits.)

Guns'n'Roses, Use Your Illusion I & II
(both albums went 7x platinum, with Vol. 1 offering two top ten hits and each giving another top 40. The previous release, G'n'R Lies, admittedly an EP, sold 5x million. While all the hits - and "Civil War" still get love on Spotify, it's definitely got nothing on Appetite and almost unanimously people see The Beginning Of The End in a way they didn't at the time.)

Cranberries, No Need To Argue
(7x platinum #6 album with two top 40 "pop" hits - it was that funky airplay time - that charted less than pair from the previous album, which only went 5x platinum. However, the follow-up To The Faithfully Departed only went 2x platinum, and if someone thinks this album is anywhere as good as the first, speak up cuz ILX hasn't heard you).

Journey, Frontiers
(6x platinum #2 album with 4 top 30 hits including 1 top ten. Previous album Escape went 9x platinum with 3 top 10 hits. The follow-up, Raised On Radio would have four top 20 hits but only go 2x platinum. Plus everybody got into side projects after Frontiers. Plus the highest charting song was "Separate Ways").

ZZ Top, Afterburner
(5x platinum #4 album - their highest charting ever - with four top 40 hits, including #8 "Sleeping Bag." In comparison, previous album Eliminator only had 2 top 40 hits, including #8 "Legs," despite going 10x platinum. However, follow-up Recycler only went platinum and had no top 40 hits. Only "Rough Boy" makes spotify's top ten in popularity and none of the tracks were deemed worth of inclusion of their "Hi-Five" digital pack).

Billy Joel, River Of Dreams
(5x platinum #1 album with 2 top 20 hits, including the #3 title track. Billy's previous album, Storm Front, had 2 top 10 hits including a #1, but only went 4x platinum. However, "We Didn't Start The Fire" is a notch above "River" on Spotify, "The Downeaster Alexa" several notches above "Lullaby - Goodnight Angel" and about half of Storm Front passes before we see "All About Soul". His only follow-up has been a classical album.)

R.E.M., Monster
(4x platinum #1 album with two top 40 singles, both of which charted higher than the three top 40 hits from their previous album Automatic For The People, which also went 4x platinum - but peaked at #2. However, follow-up New Adventures In Hi-Fi only went platinum and had no top 40 hits. Ranking tracks on Spotify by popularity, you have to scroll through album tracks of Automatic to get to "Bang And Blame". Plus there's the whole 'most sold back CD ever' thing).

Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, The Art Of War
(4x platinum #1 album with two top 40 singles including one top 5. The previous album, E. 1999 Eternal, also was a 4x platinum #1 with two top 20 hits including a #1. The follow-up, BTNH Resurrection, only went platinum and had no pop hits. "Look Into My Eyes" has not had the longevity of "1st Of Da Month" or "Da Cross Roads."

Boston, Third Stage
(4x platinum #1 album with two top ten hits including one #1, despite coming eight years after the last album. However, in 1987, Boston had gone 9x platinum, Don't Look Back 4x platinum and Third Stage 4x time platinum. Today, Boston is at 17x platinum, and Don't Look Back is at 7x platinum. Third Stage remains at four, and the follow-up, Walk On only went Platinum).

Genesis, We Can't Dance
(4x platinum #4 album with 5 top 30 singles - including one top ten. Admittedly a notch down chart-wise from Invisible Touch - 6x platinum #3 album, 5 top 5 hits including a #1 - and Phil's But Seriously - 4x platinum #1 album, 3 top 5 hits including a #1. But still no reason to assume Phil's next solo album just two years later would fail to make the top ten and only go platinum. Until you remember the last top ten hit was "I Can't Dance.")

AC/DC, For Those About To Rock We Salute You
(4x platinum #1 album - their first and only chart-topper until 2008. While Back In Black has been printing money since its release, having gone 20x, both Salute and Highway to Hell hit 2x platinum in late '84. Highway is now at 7x platinum, Salute at 4x. None of the three albums that followed Salute have passed single platinum).

Lionel Richie, Dancing On The Ceiling
(4x platinum #1 album with four top ten hits, including one #1. In comparison, previous album Can't Slow Down had five top ten hits, including 2 #1s, and eventually went 10x platinum. Lionel wouldn't even release another single until 1992, so it's hard to say how another '80s album would have done, but Dancing is definitely considered inferior to CSD).

Spice Girls, Spiceworld
(4x platinum #3 album with three top 20 hits including 1 top 10, the aptly named "Too Much". Previous album, Spice, went 7x platinum with three top 5 hits including a #1. Following album, Forever, only hit #39 and had one top 20 hit, the aptly named "Goodbye.")

Huey Lewis, Fore!
(3x platinum #1 album with 5 top ten hits including 2 #1s. In comparison, previous album Sports had four top ten hits and nothing even in the top 5 despite going 7x platinum. However, follow-up Small World only went platinum and had just one top ten hit. Spotify suggests the hits off Fore! are just as popular as the Sports hits, though. Even "Jacob's Ladder". Still, ILX has consistently dissed this album.)

Paula Abdul, Spellbound
(3x platinum #1 album with 5 top 20 hits including 2 #1s. While the previous album, Forever Your Girl went 7x platinum with 4 #1s, the follow-up to Spellbound, Head Over Heels would only go gold with one top 30 hit.)

Foreigner, Agent Provocateur
(3x platinum #4 album with the band's first #1 single. However, the follow-up Inside Information would only go single platinum and Agent has garnered fewer fewer platinum discs than any previous album - Head Games and Records actually leapfrogged it.)

Some are more debatable than others, but feel like all deserve a home if we do a poll. Any others that meet this standard?