Not only easier to speak of, but it also has its real importance -- important enough so that when such encounters as the above three -- as opposed to any of the others I've described -- cease, one seeks out other cruising grounds. Several times since high school I've abandoned one area of the city for another, when forces I will never comprehend drive down the number of such accessible, satisfying exchanges, whose satisfaction is always, Sam, measured on a (or on several) scale(s) more complex than the sexual. Yet, in all cases, a dismal, gray and unresponsive ground is the incomprehensible template against which they occur, not throwing themselves into relief so much as providing a necessary obscurity to their outlines, making them bearable, even possible (making them hard of impossible for we who indulge in them to speak of in any terms save the sexual, even as they are, in their actuality, wholly social), in a world that largely denies they exist.
― thomp, Monday, 6 August 2012 21:00 (six years ago) Permalink
which is to say that the mad man has its elements of elegy for the cruising scene too, though the action (structure?) of the novel is weirdly orthogonal to that.
Man, I'm just finishing up The Mad Man(took me 5 months wtf?! I've been busy). Insane book, really, but Delany really knows how to challenge and reward I think, just as you're becoming insensitive to some bloke shitting all over another blokes face whilst a group of other guys are jacking off all over the guy who is getting shitted on, he throws you a bone. Fantastic.
― historyyy (prettylikealaindelon), Sunday, 14 August 2011 13:24 (11 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this seems like a really weird way to be reading this. ('that movie deep throat really manages challenge and reward the viewer, it's amazing how much you want to get to the end of the next blowjob..')
(weird how the rhythms of pornography are still deducible, compelling even if it's pornography you find (abhorrent? not to your taste? well, maybe reading some-hundred pages of it is enough to make it more the latter and not the former) -- either that or i secretly long to have homeless new yorkers of the 80s excrete in my mouth -- delany's reliance on parentheticals is both contagious and compelling.
i read this over like 72 hours, which is the quickest i've read anything of equivalent .. length, density .. in a while.
want to say something about the intersection of different narrative styles (campus novel, detective novel) with the novel's pornotopia, also the different characters as different biographical displacements of delany, also the enjoyably (deliberately?) stilted moments of dialogue common to all delany's 'serious' work. on the other hand, don't want to burn myself out when i will probably start in the valley of the nest of spiders tomorrow
― thomp, Monday, 6 August 2012 21:28 (six years ago) Permalink
I found a used paperback of The Mad Man in a store in Gainesville in 2001. In the SF section, natch. brought it home and discovered a $20 bill in the middle. Like you, thomp, I couldn't put the book down and read it in the course of a few days. There was an element of tourism I'm sure, as a straight male on the vanilla end of the spectrum, but that was far from the only driver. It really is an amazing book.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 15:55 (six years ago) Permalink
Mad ol' me, have an unread copy of this since since '07. Will get onto it ASAP.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 22:07 (six years ago) Permalink
on the other hand, i flicked ahead to see quite how long the first truck stop bathroom sex scene in ...spiders goes on for, and put the book down, and haven't picked it up again yet.
― thomp, Thursday, 9 August 2012 10:57 (six years ago) Permalink
(it goes on for a lot of pages.)
god i wish he'd finished splendor and misery, i liked stars in my pocket sooo much. i've been keeping my eyes peeled for more but there's only one used book store in town and the only time i went there i overheard the owner slumped over his computer and grumbling "goddamn fucking faggots" and i haven't been back.
only other book i've read was dhalgren. where should i go from there if i'm going to shell out some internet dollars?
― arby's, Monday, 13 August 2012 22:34 (six years ago) Permalink
Triton, Driftglass (short story collection with his best short work), Tales of Neveryon, Nova. If you like ToN, there are three more volumes in that series.
I think I'm going to go ahead and buy Nest of Spiders now in the 1st edition. I read the missing chapter online and it's just a couple of pages. Plus, with Delany's bad luck with publishers lately, I worry they'll go out of business before they ever come out with another printing.
― Romney's Kitchen Nightmares (WmC), Monday, 13 August 2012 23:39 (six years ago) Permalink
Not an expert either, but you might try Triton, Nova and The Complete Nebula Award-Winning Fiction of Samuel R. Delaney (compiled in miid-80s,good used copies easy to find online)Combined edition of two novels and two short stories which won the Nebula Award. Babel - 17 (winner, 1966 Nebula, 1995 James Tiptree, Jr. Award, Classics; nominated, 1967 Hugo Award; 1975 Locus Poll Award, All-Time Best Novel (Place: 36)); A Fabulous, Formless Darkness (original title The Einstein Intersection) (winner, 1967 Nebula Award; nominated, 1968 Hugo Award); Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones (winner, 1969 Nebula Award, 1970 Hugo Award); Aye, and Gomorrah (winner, 1967 Nebula Award; nominated, 1968 Hugo Award).
― dow, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:47 (six years ago) Permalink
drift glass seconded.
― the late great, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:47 (six years ago) Permalink
iirc there is a complete short sci fi that's sweet
― the late great, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:48 (six years ago) Permalink
that's...a lotta stuff! thanks y'all. with school starting in a few weeks i'll scarcely read a thing for the next nine months :[
― arby's, Monday, 13 August 2012 23:50 (six years ago) Permalink
Try the short stories when you can catch a breath, usually works for me
― dow, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 00:11 (six years ago) Permalink
The Neveryon stuff is fucking great. Also, it starts out broken up into novella-like chunks which may aid in digestibility...
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 15:23 (six years ago) Permalink
haven't read a word of this guy... saw him read from his Times Square nonfic book before a showing of an early '70s gay porn film tonight.
He's kinda bored by gay marriage. "Tolerance, not assimilation" is the key to advancing civilization, he said.
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 7 July 2013 07:33 (five years ago) Permalink
every time this gets revived now i'm worried that he's ill or dead.
what was the film?
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Sunday, 7 July 2013 07:43 (five years ago) Permalink
also is there another delany thread we alternate with because i swear i remember talking about all the piss-drinking in 'through the valley ...'
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Sunday, 7 July 2013 07:56 (five years ago) Permalink
ask sam delany a question?
― WilliamC, Sunday, 7 July 2013 12:38 (five years ago) Permalink
― i better not get any (thomp), Sunday, 7 July 2013 15:02 (five years ago) Permalink
film was The Back Row
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 7 July 2013 16:50 (five years ago) Permalink
I have no idea whether to recommend Delany to you, Morbs -- either the sf or the porn.
― WilliamC, Sunday, 7 July 2013 17:02 (five years ago) Permalink
I just reread his Times Square book in may.
― Thelema & Louise (Jon Lewis), Sunday, 7 July 2013 23:24 (five years ago) Permalink
I recently started reading the tales of neveryon, i'm generally not a fan of short stories but since they're all set in neveryon, i'm interested in how the stories are going to relate to each other and if it's all going to fit together somehow.
― whos next with plex (prettylikealaindelon), Thursday, 22 August 2013 11:38 (five years ago) Permalink
saw him speak at the university of chicago for the second time tonight (he's just ending a visiting professorship). it was mostly sort of autobiographical this time; he told a great story about hooking up with a senegalese prince in paris in the mid-60s. i got him to sign my copy of trouble on triton
― 1staethyr, Saturday, 1 February 2014 03:52 (five years ago) Permalink
72nd birthday today
― Babby's on fiber (WilliamC), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 20:48 (five years ago) Permalink
The only one of his novels I have unequivocally enjoyed was Babel-17, of which the ebook is on sale for $1.99 today- as has been noted before, both Shakey and I find his style maddening - but the critical writings I have read from him are grebt.
― tl;dr5-49 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 12 April 2014 20:25 (five years ago) Permalink
Good (first half of an) interview: http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2015/07/interview-samuel-r-delany-three-novels-launched-career-part-1/
He was also interviewed by Gary Wolfe for the Coode Street Podcast — http://jonathanstrahan.podbean.com/e/episode-241-samuel-r-delany/ — but it seemed a bit lightweight and inessential. Getting a bit of press/doing a bit of promotional work for the new Vintage edition of three early novels.
― dart scar rashes (WilliamC), Friday, 24 July 2015 15:45 (three years ago) Permalink
i have a book of interviews with him and it is endlessly fascinating even when he repeats himself over the years.
― scott seward, Friday, 24 July 2015 19:01 (three years ago) Permalink
Terrific how Delany was worked into this piece on Chaturbate
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 October 2015 15:15 (three years ago) Permalink
Emily Witt has now built a fine, fine portfolio of pieces on this intersection of sex and the interwebs.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 October 2015 15:16 (three years ago) Permalink
I haven't read the whole thing so I can't judge but some stuff Delany has said about child abuse and nambla probably wouldn't have been received nearly as well if he wasn't considered such a hero and so good writing about race. He's in the comments too.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 20:41 (two years ago) Permalink
I struggle so much with this - as a person who, when underage, had meaningful relationships with people who were above the age of consent, which, 35 years later, I still don't think of as wrong or hurtful - it's a difficult discussion to have without seeming like a monster. certainly when Delaney says that, at the age of nine, he was entering into consensual sexual relationships with adults...I'm a dad now, two boys: I can't accept that, viscerally I reject that. but at the same time, I got a letter from a Joan Crawford fan a month ago or so: a dude who's doing twenty years in prison. he was in his late twenties having a relationship with a sixteen-year-old boy, and the parents got wind of it, and they threw the book at him. I looked up his case: his victim insisted no victimization had ever taken place, but the southern judge didn't care at all, and put him away. where's the justice in that? I feel like this is Delaney's point broadly put, but the concept of an age of consent feels valuable.
― though she denies it to the press, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 21:26 (two years ago) Permalink
one of the most struggly subjects there is. I have not even the faintest stab at encompassing it.
― I wish you could see my home. It's... it's so... exciting (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 21:28 (two years ago) Permalink
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, September 7, 2016 9:41 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's a very difficult topic but framing it this way is disingenuous garbage.
― until the next, delayed, glaciation (map), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 22:16 (two years ago) Permalink
delany isn't a race writer. did you mean "because he's black?"
― until the next, delayed, glaciation (map), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 22:20 (two years ago) Permalink
he's not a good writer either tbf
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 22:23 (two years ago) Permalink
I can't have much of an opinion on something I haven't finished but I doubt most other writers talking about similar things would be treated so well. The interview happened because it was being said too many big figures in the genre were getting a free pass while others were getting a ton of shit for relatively minor things, but nobody really knew a lot about Delany's stance on this stuff. Do you think I'm implying he should be dragged through the dirt for his opinions?
No, because he wrote some very good articles on racism in the past that have been heavily circulated and praised in the past several years when the topic has been at the forefront of sff discussions.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 22:42 (two years ago) Permalink
― until the next, delayed, glaciation (map), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 23:40 (two years ago) Permalink
sorry i had my hackles up
― until the next, delayed, glaciation (map), Wednesday, 7 September 2016 23:41 (two years ago) Permalink
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 7 September 2016 23:44 (two years ago) Permalink
Happy 75th birthday.
― scattered, smothered, covered, diced and chunked (WilliamC), Sunday, 2 April 2017 00:18 (two years ago) Permalink
I'm always scared to open this thread.
― change display name (Jordan), Sunday, 2 April 2017 00:27 (two years ago) Permalink
This thread is v repetitive
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 2 April 2017 01:20 (two years ago) Permalink
In Glasgow for several events during the next Arika eisode:
― Susan Stranglehands (jed_), Sunday, 29 October 2017 14:50 (one year ago) Permalink
Just finished Dhalgren, my first trip into Delany. I really liked large chunks of it, but other portions were definitely a slog. Even aside from the tedious descriptions of underage orgies, it did feel like some of the same plot points just kept cycling through without moving the story forward. But many of the characters were terrifically drawn and I enjoyed his world-building, what's a good next step?
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 13:14 (two months ago) Permalink
I enjoyed Dhalgren alright but somehow that's where I got off the bus, many years ago--several people have told me I should have at least gone on to Stars In My Pocket Like Grains of Sand, and maybe I will, but right now thinking of re-reading his fun, imaginative debutThe Jewels of Aptor, published when he was 19, I think, also should dig up my copy of a chunky drugstore paperback, The Complete Nebula Award-Winning Fiction of Samuel R. Delany. which Amazon describes thusly:Combined edition of two novels and two short stories which won the Nebula Award. Babel - 17 (winner, 1966 Nebula, 1995 James Tiptree, Jr. Award, Classics; nominated, 1967 Hugo Award; 1975 Locus Poll Award, All-Time Best Novel (Place: 36)); A Fabulous, Formless Darkness (original title The Einstein Intersection) (winner, 1967 Nebula Award; nominated, 1968 Hugo Award); Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones (winner, 1969 Nebula Award, 1970 Hugo Award); Aye, and Gomorrah (winner, 1967 Nebula Award; nominated, 1968 Hugo Award) The cheapest (by far) copy they have of this is $24.03, but worth it, if condition is okay. They have a lot more by him.
― dow, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 21:24 (two months ago) Permalink
that sounds like a good 'tracklist' for sure.
You might check out the Neveryon stuff, bronze age fantasy as vehicle for a dive into semiotics. I loved the two of them I read.
Triton is great also.
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 21:27 (two months ago) Permalink
I enjoyed the Neveryon books on rereading a couple of years ago. Reread The Einstein Intersection last year and understood it better than the first time I read it. Nova, Triton, and Stars in My Pocket are all good.
― The Mod Who Banned Liberty Valance (WmC), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:47 (two months ago) Permalink
imo triton and stars in my pocket are the masterworks
― the late great, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 23:52 (two months ago) Permalink
Thanks! I think I'm leaning to Stars In My Pocket next, though it may come down to what the library has available.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 April 2019 14:36 (one month ago) Permalink