Lady Gaga - ARTPOP [2012]

As I said "imperfect metaphor" but i see her slipping into professionalism w/ wacky hair where someone like Ke$ha or Nicki Minaj seems to be doing a better job dishing out a ton of candy-pop and riling people just by being themselves.

every single off BTW is worse than any single off FM

& least when the same was true w/ justin it went in the service of his second album being undeniably better & more cohesive

BTW is certainly the only blockbuster pop album in recent memory whose album tracks I enjoyed more than the singles.

Man y'all are crazy; Fame/FM sounded so unexceptional and cookie-cutter (and also super repetitive) and BTW seemed like the first time she considered approaching something that might be on some planet "artistic" or "experimental" or some shit (even though it totally wasn't). Why does she refuse to make wacky music to fit her "wacky" persona?

i dunno, born this way is pretty arch

Isn't Kesha still at the album and ep stage? no second record from her yet, right?

i think cyndi lauper still has a p loyal following

She does. Now if only she'd record a proper album rather than collections of blues, showtunes and remakes of her old songs with trendy new artists, which is what she's been doing for the last decade-ish.

She made a pop album just a few years ago. It was terrible, but at least it wasn't any of those things you mentioned.

Born This Way is that weird case of an album that had four top-ten singles, including one number-one, and yet has somehow diminished the artist in some weird undefinable way. Like, after Fame Monster she was clearly a force of nature but after Born This Way she feels more like an ordinary musical act. And that's despite trying to seem as extraordinary as possible, keeping up the weirdness, etc. etc. I think it was just a little too soon - at least half the songs really could have benefited from a couple more rounds of work from everybody involved. (OTOH, maybe she just wanted to strike while the iron was hot - and who's to say that was the wrong call commercially?)

I have no real beef with any of the singles but the album material has never sunk its claws into me. Gonna give it another spin tonight, keep trying at it. I'm still a fan, still stoked about the new one (horrible title aside), but there was a point where I was really going out of my way to champion her and Born This Way kind of stalled that out.

yea Doctor Casino, jordan and lex all otm re BTW and FM

there are definitely moments on FM that changed me. like forever.

not sure what to say about artpop the title

That's a good insight, Doctor C. I don't agree with it at all though, mostly the part about Gaga being a force of nature. Forces of nature don't release to my ears so many crap singles.

really the only songs on that album I would ever actively choose to play are "Government Hooker" and "The Edge of Glory" (I wouldn't turn off "Born This Way", "Bloody Mary" or "You and I" if someone else played them)

This is pretty OTM, though I'd bump up all three of those "wouldn't turn off" songs to "would not skip past on my own iPod" in addition to maybe "Judas" and "Heavy Metal Lover."

In other words, I still like that album at least better than The Fame, fuiud.

yep

That's a good insight, Doctor C. I don't agree with it at all though, mostly the part about Gaga being a force of nature. Forces of nature don't release to my ears so many crap singles.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 6, 2012 7:47 PM Bookmark

YMMV I guess - - - I think this is a pretty damned solid run:

Just Dance
Poker Face
LoveGame
Paparazzi
Bad Romance
Telephone
Alejandro

I mean, the only one of those that I'd rank as sub-par is "LoveGame," but maybe it can get some bonus points for non-US "Eh, Eh" which I find very charming and hooky. Is there another pop act right now, working at her scale, with such a consistent string of singles straight out of the gate?

only like "Just Dance" and "Alejandro" from that sequence.

holy moly, well yeah in that case, definitely not your cup of tea!

Bad Romance --> Telephone is probably the best one-two of her career.

that run was undeniably huge chart-wise but i only really loved "Bad Romance" and liked "Alejandro," came around to a couple of the others after hating them initially. definitely prefer BTW's run of singles as inconsistent as it is, and enjoy BTW a lot as an album.

although Casino is definitely otm that BTW was too big to fail but managed to fail in the sense that it took the wind out of her sales, blew all that powerful momentum she'd had for a couple years.

Bad Romance --> Telephone is probably the best one-two of her career.

Yup.

took the wind out of her sales

typo or pun?

lol typo

I would like to read more about how BTW stopped her momentum or stripped her of lustre (not being sarcastic).

i mean it was the 2nd best selling album of '11 behind (WAY behind) Adele, but the fact that anyone could upstage her in her preordained year was pretty damning (xpost)

I mean, is there really a sense that BTW reduced her to an "ordinary musical act"? The album went double platinum and produced four consecutive top ten singles.

Not everyone here likes "Hair" and "Government Hooker" as much as I do but those are the kind of batshit moments I want from forces of nature, and both were the first time she convinced me she had it in her.

yeah but it was also concurrent with someone previously considered not on her level having 6 consecutive #1s (xpost)

or i guess 5 consecutive, 6 non-consecutive

oh she'll never work with Dr. Luke and has been working less and less w/ RedOne. clunkers, though, yes, probably.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

― Diary of a Whiney Kid: Dog Days (some dude), Monday, August 6, 2012 5:43 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Can I get the underlined portion in writing?

seems like what made much of BTW ordinary was the production + lack of nuance in the songcraft. whereas those things made Edge Of Glory a success, they hindered a lot of the album.

well hey maybe you know something i don't, but iirc last year Luke signed a deal to work exclusively with Sony artists (which Gaga is not)

in a way i think BTW's performance was similar to Beyonce's B'Day -- came at a point when they seemed kind of unstoppable and there was a building expectation that they'd have a "Crazy In Love"/"Bad Romance" megahit out of the gate every time, negative reaction to "Deja Vu"/"Judas" not being that got a little over the top, album ended up with some chart-toppers and a healthy run of moderate hits anyway.

kind of surprised she didn't go with someone like 'artpop' for the LAST one since that was around the time she and kanye were buddying up and unsubtly putting themselves in the lineage of warhol

er someone = something

So it's the age-old "perception" problem. Do any of her fans think the success of Adele sullied Gaga's? While I'm sure both artists enjoy some overlap, I tend to think Gagas regard the Adele buyers with suspicion, kinda like Madonna vs. Mariah Carey in the nineties.

i don't think it's just Adele per se, so much as the sense that she's not even keeping pace with people she was considered way out of the league of like Katy and Rihanna

I mean, is there really a sense that BTW reduced her to an "ordinary musical act"? The album went double platinum and produced four consecutive top ten singles.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, August 6, 2012 8:23 PM Bookmark

Well, this is sort of what I was trying to get at - - that despite these really massive, imperial superstar sales, I feel like, on the ground, the sense that Gaga is super exciting and Where It's At has considerably diminished. Maybe I'm just hanging around the wrong people, but the general level of excitement and interest is lower. Plus, I'd say that at least some of the chart success was momentum-driven (plus steep discounts on release day for the album) - - feel like anything she'd put out at that moment would have debuted at #1. I actually have come to like BTW as a song, but I know a lot of people who thought it was kind of a loud and insistent bore.

Would also say that on Fame and Fame Monster there was this balancing act between persona and music, where the weirdness would show up around the edges of the lyrics but really be all over the place in the performances and public appearances. She definitely had a distinctive lyrical voice - "adult," unapologetic, embracing of trashiness without being cutesy and stupid, etc., etc., - but the themes of the songs were things lots of people could relate to. The apex is probably the "Bad Romance" -> "Telephone" one-two punch - - both kind of super weird songs but also exTREMely hooky and leaning on scenarios the audience can relate to: there are a lot of bad romance paperbooks on the shelf, after all, and "Telephone" is an everygirl story blown up to monster size by production, guest star, and video, as I think I was rambling about back on the general Gaga thread.

I feel like Born This Way mostly held the balance on the singles, although I think "Judas" is a bit too removed to really hit home for most people ("I'm just a holy fool?"). "Born This Way," of course, deliberately swings away from a mainstream-appeal scenario and goes for a queer pride thing, which I think is tremendously to Gaga's credit. But the album tracks sort of lose that thread, for me - "Scheisse," "Government Hooker," "Highway Unicorn" - - I appreciate their nutsiness, I'm a fan of batshit weird wrapped up in a pop kitchen sink, sure, great, but is that what the worldwide, millions-strong audience was looking for? I'm not sure. Basically this is a really long and not really that convincing way of saying that I think the singles stayed strong so the big sales kind of mask a sense that, by and large, it was received as a dud album. IMHO!

sorry, that's kind of full of holes - though i stand by the final takeaway

No, I can follow you. We just disagree. I was and am contemputous, for example, of "Born This Way" precisely because of the queer pride thing.

Also, stepping away from the music and just talking persona/star-text - - I argued on the main Gaga thread that a lot of her appeal as Big Pop Weirdo was that people admired/envied the amount of fun she seemed to get away with, with the crazy costumes and goofy interview answers and all that kind of thing. You wanted to be that bold; she made it very appealing. The Born This Way era, and I'm just spitballing, but she didn't necessarily make it seem as fun to be Gaga. The videos were bleaker, darker, Serious Artist Is Serious affairs, and the arch themes, personal symbolism, German impressions, and so on of the music contributed to a sense of "she's leaving us behind" - - - - maybe? Really have nothing with which to back this up. Just generally she seemed less vivid and colorfully and full of fun.

Did you think "Marry The Night" wasn't fun

i didn't, prob one of my 2 or 3 least fav songs on the album

"Marry the Night" grew on me, I'd put it in the top quartile, but the video was exhausting if I'm thinking of the right one. Not Fun. I think "You and I" is the only straight up, no shenanigans, swing-for-the-bleachers crossover attempt. Pretty sure it'll be the long-term catalogue seller from this set (besides Born This Way).

btw here's my previous remarks on gaga's "fun factor" if it adds anything:

I think the fandom for her is still more visceral than you suggest, for many people... if Swift is best friend, Gaga is platonic girl crush. People want to BE her because she's so COOL and gets away with doing strange and wonderful things that you are too shy and ordinary to do (until you go to college and join some burlesque troupe or whatever). The details of what those things are - the bewildering forest of her "aesthetic self-construction" - provide lots of interest and give you something to link to almost daily on Facebook ("Grammy dress! heart gaga").... but people think she's *awesome*, not just intellectually interesting, etc.

Besides, I mean, again setting aside star-texts just for the moment, look at the songs - "Eh, Eh" for example is almost completely lacking any arch-ness and irony, and the dress-up for the video is familiar imagery of hyper-Little-Italy-land, about as elaborate as Swift putting on nerd glasses. The narrative is a completely straightforward romantic situation - she had a nice romance going, met somebody else, is excited about this somebody else, and is still kinda bittersweet about having to say goodbye to the other person. That story is WELL-worn, lyrics aren't anything to write home about... but I'll go ahead and say that it feels more real and relatable to me than the Swift songs. The song didn't chart and this isn't the thread for it, but for me it's all in the title/hook - there's a lot of lived experience packed into those dismissive "Eh"s that just clicks with me. I've been there.

Or "Pokerface," which I dunno if this got run into the ground upthread, but this is a song about pretending to enjoy sex when it's kinda ehh and you'd rather be with someone else. (A woman, it turns out, but that's not heavily implied in the lyrics.) Not saying Swift has to write songs about fucking to get a "serious songwriter" pass - just that I think a lot of people who like this song like it because it's an experience they can very directly relate to. Plenty more may like it just because of the great chorus and the funny pu-pu-pu-poker face hook (that's where I got on board anyway) but the material is a TOTAL "real life" situation.

― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, February 3, 2010 11:31 AM Bookmark

I think Gaga's appeal at street level has very little to do with anybody thinking her 'art' is particularly sophisticated, but a lot to do with people admiring and envying the amount of FUN she seems to get away with having. It's a different kind of liberationary politics than a lot of people may be ready to get down with, and I'm open to the idea that it's also kind of vacuous and lacking in content or complexity, but I basically appreciate what she's doing.

― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:37 PM Bookmark

...and basically, I feel like Born This Way, beyond a couple of the singles, kind of was lacking in all of the above. I'm more than willing to hold out hope that the new album reverses this course - but I've worn this into the ground, sorry y'all.

I think Gaga's appeal at street level has very little to do with anybody thinking her 'art' is particularly sophisticated, but a lot to do with people admiring and envying the amount of FUN she seems to get away with having. It's a different kind of liberationary politics than a lot of people may be ready to get down with, and I'm open to the idea that it's also kind of vacuous and lacking in content or complexity, but I basically appreciate what she's doing.

Sure -- that's the appeal of good pop artists, which was why the sloganeering of "Born This Way" grossed me out.

That Gaga's been an uneven pop artist is beside the point, I suppose.

"Marry the Night" grew on me, I'd put it in the top quartile, but the video was exhausting if I'm thinking of the right one. Not Fun. I think "You and I" is the only straight up, no shenanigans, swing-for-the-bleachers crossover attempt. Pretty sure it'll be the long-term catalogue seller from this set (besides Born This Way).

― Doctor Casino, Monday, August 6, 2012 9:04 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

oh man "You And I" was the biggest botch of them all, worst video AND nobody really likes the studio version as much as the live version. "Edge of Glory" will definitely always outsell it.

*ahem* i like the studio version much more than the live version. the sheen on "you and i" is magnificent whereas on too much of the rest of the album, it is drastically over-polished.

but the video is one of the worst i have ever seen.

The main mistake with the Born This Way era, was not releasing "Edge Of Glory" as the second single. It would have been so huge after "Born This Way" the single.
"Judas" was a bit too weird and too similar to "Bad Romance". It flopped and was the first time Gaga stumbled. So they rushed the release of "Edge" with a disapointing video that seemed like no effort went into making, that made Gaga's star dim a bit and the album lost momentum.

my favorite inane thing she has posted on littlemonsters.com was "Would you critic an English paper if you did not speak English?"

I am moving to a nice house on a lake and awaiting my Avalon 747 which should be here soon. I am in a place where I can't record. It is very noisy. That is why I have to move.

these have the feel of haunting last words

god she is so over

#buyartpoponitunes

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6487693/lady-gaga-r-kelly-obama-selma-50th

I stand by anyone who has ever been the victim of sexual assault: pic.twitter.com/67sz4WpV3i

— Lady Gaga (@ladygaga) January 10, 2019

Swine is really the only one off this I still listen to. The rest I can take or leave, even Applause, and I don’t think I’ve listened much to her material after that since (The Fame/TFM obviously still classics).

#2 in the iTunes store right now

Lady Gaga’s fans think ‘Artpop’ never got enough respect. So they’re changing that

The applause for “Artpop” lives on, reassuring what some of Lady Gaga’s fans already knew about the divisive and overlooked album: It was ahead of its time.

The pop star’s third studio album, released in 2013, landed at No. 2 on iTunes’ album chart Tuesday after #buyARTPOPoniTunes went viral on social media. The hashtag is part of a fan-powered movement for the “Applause” singer to release the second volume of “Artpop.”

And even Gaga is on board.

“The petition to #buyARTPOPoniTunes for a volume II has inspired such a tremendous warmth in my heart. Making this album was like heart surgery, I was desperate, in pain, and poured my heart into electronic music that slammed harder than any drug I could find,” Gaga wrote on Twitter late Monday.

“I fell apart after I released this album. Thank you for celebrating something that once felt like destruction. We always believed it was ahead of its time. Years later turns out, sometimes, artists know. And so do little monsters. Paws up.”

is this the one that goes ga ga ooh la la

Recently discovered the fantastic version of the title track (with Elton John) from the Muppets show.

it just was/is not a very good album

weird that that itunes/social media thing even got a writeup, temporarily rising to a semi-impressive-looking ranking on itunes in the middle of the week (or at all, as digital album sales are in the toilet nowadays) isn't hugely meaningful these days. this is the same platform where decades-old songs routinely rise to the top 10 just by being part of a discount promo

also, its best track is no longer on it