the totally insane true story behind the 1970s film and book Sybil

Joanne Woodward as Eve and Dr Wilbur is a casting masterstroke.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Capturing_the_friedmans_dvd_cover.jpg

Debbie Nathan was interviewed in that movie!

one of the best docs I've ever seen, no lols implied

agree, one of my favorites of the last decade

one major parallel in both trends: the possibility of coaching testimony, false memory, etc--memory is so weird anyway

also see: false confessions under police interrogation

I really MUST READ SOMETHING IN THIS GENRE... SOON! I am going to the bookstore tonight. I remember the Connecticut devil book! It scared the shit out of me!

Someone give me the best one to start with first. Really wish MICHELLE REMEMBERS was still in circulation :(

have you read SYBIL?

lol I bought a used copy of Michelle Remembers at Powell's last month, read it in my hotel room over the next day or so, and left it there on purpose because I didn't have any more use for it & it was a totally creepy book - like so clearly a cynical made-up story that you feel like you're implicit in something gross by listening to the stories this person wants you to believe she believes are true

echoes of jt leroy too

on top of all of the "is it true" complexity, there's a huge undercurrent of really gruesome exploitation in all this stuff

Capturing the Friedmans story is so sad

I've never read Sybil. That might be the best one to start with.

At times like these I wish I had a Kindle.

on top of all of the "is it true" complexity, there's a huge undercurrent of really gruesome exploitation in all this stuff

Pretty much the entire "True Crime" section of any paperback dealer.

yeah
has anyone read LOBSTER BOY?
the guy who wrote the book becomes part of the story at the end, it's crazy

I mean while we're talking true crime, this is my alltime favorite -- the book has all of these letters written to William Corder from women who wanted to marry him. It's totally bonkers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Barn_Murder

Full title The Murder of Maria Marten Being an Authentic and Faithful History with a full Development of the most Extraordinary Circumstances which Led to the Discovery of Her Body in the Red Barn

homoII you should read sybil -- it's lurid, you'll love it

The Village Voice once published a round-up (by Richard Gehr?) of Christian horror fiction, incl at least one about parents who did not spare the rod and thus did not spoil the child, so attracted the attention of secretly Satanic social workers. This was by Roger Elwood, pretty sure (he used to flood the market with paperback-original science fiction and fantasy anthologies, finally announced he was leaving that game to the Godless)

At times like these I wish I had a Kindle.

Most of this stuff is not in print digitally either iirc

It was quite a trend, with the Satanic govt entities

Thanks for reminding me of Sybil Exposed. I found it completely fascinating and told all my friends to read it though none did. Some people probably think it's a simple debunking story but it really delves into many strange and creepy aspects of our recent cultural history. It would make a great choice for a book club.

What's disturbing is to read reviews of it and see people still defending the original Sybil book or at least trying to salvage some bit of truth from the whole premise of it.

I'm not sure about the veracity of the case of "Eve," but she only had three faces while Sybil claimed 16.

I remember as a kid, being inundated with "child abuse" media... lots of tv movies (I remember one about a father that sexual abused his kids but I don't remember the title), that one mini series wherein Farrah Fawcett murders her kids, Sybil, etc. I remember thinking every adult wanted to murder me and/or molest me. It was kinda creepy.

EIII please do

― nicest bitch of poster (La Lechera), Monday, July 30, 2012 10:23 AM (2 hours ago)

I would like a signet paperback covers thread.

― tokyo rosemary, Monday, July 30, 2012 10:55 AM (2 hours ago)

here ya go

signet horror paperback covers of the 70s and 80s and related desiderata

From the Age of Trilogies, of course
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PSM2KB02L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

not only social workers................................

this is the point in the conversation where I feel obligated to point out that child abuse is very very common and a lot of these people's fantasies about beyond-the-pale organized abuse rings are probably ways of coping with more garden-variety horrors like "an uncle abused me one time & when I mentioned it to my mother she said not to worry about it and that it wouldn't happen again, which it didn't, but it still had a terrible effect on me" -- stories like that in people's pasts that fuck them up real good but lack the Giant Demonic Cabal aspect that at least makes them feel like there was some meaning in there somewhere

like, my point is, it'd be nice to think of the people advancing these narratives as just cynical hucksters, but for your cynicism to be that total, probably something very fucked up happened to you at some point during your development

the above point is U & K

and only makes it sadder

That's what I meant about xpost Much more harrowing: sorting out truth and BS in child-abuse scandals

applies to genesis of Satanic too

one prob with exploitation in 70s and 80s, would to such stupefying heights, esp when cable TV talk shows ruled, there would be a pile-on of "experts", a lot of people would eventually automatically tune out, the circus would move on and/or just make regular news-cycle returns, real child abuse etc would still be a problem, with possibilities of hysteria, exploitation factored into hesitations and/or rationalizations of reporting abuse.

and only makes it sadder
agree 100%

that's part of why sybil exposed is so poignant -- each of these women are real people looking for something in their own lives, each a different thing, and to think that they got tangled up in something so extensive is totally fascinating.

I run a large-scale Satanic cult but we are 100% anti-abuse, we do all the other stuff like blood rituals and heavy doper parties but without the abuse part we can't seem to attract any media attention

― steven fucking tyler (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, July 30, 2012 7:14 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

there was an x-files episode that was basically about this (and fake repressed memories!), it didn't work out so well b/c satan got pissed.

I dated someone who claimed to have been a satanist in his 20's. He told me they had crazy orgies and goat blood and shit. And he had an altar to Baphomet in his apartment, but then freaky shit went down and he stopped being a satanist. Can anyone Satanists in the house confirm these rituals? I am curious. FOREVER CURIOUS.

"They had crazy orgies - involving goat blood n shit" (not actual shit)

Sorry, bad grammar today.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T5fAJG5vL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

click to look inside THIS PSYCHO'S BRRANE

see Ed Sanders' The Family Seemed pretty solid, don't know how it might compare to prosecuter Vincent Bugliosi's Helter Skelter

always thought trudi chase was like the punchline to the hardworkin' jamaicans gag on in living color

"you only got eighteen personalities? why so lazy, i got NINETY TWO!"

this is the point in the conversation where I feel obligated to point out that child abuse is very very common and a lot of these people's fantasies about beyond-the-pale organized abuse rings are probably ways of coping with more garden-variety horrors like "an uncle abused me one time & when I mentioned it to my mother she said not to worry about it and that it wouldn't happen again, which it didn't, but it still had a terrible effect on me" -- stories like that in people's pasts that fuck them up real good but lack the Giant Demonic Cabal aspect that at least makes them feel like there was some meaning in there somewhere

Agreed -- I think it would probably be easier to live with the idea of a mysterious satanic cult being responsible for your abuse than your dad or your favorite teacher.

Twin Peaks etc

So did Sybil's mom actually abuse her or was that all up to?

I'm not sure there's an easy y/n answer to that question.

All signs point to no, as far as this book is concerned. Mattie/Hattie was weird, but the really gory stuff detailed in the book did not happen if Sybil Exposed is to be believed, and I think it is. None of the accusations were confirmed by people close to her, including the family housekeeper who kept in touch with Shirley/Sybil long after she left home. There was no grain storage barn for her to be suffocated in. No one ever saw her defecate on their (or anyone else's) lawn, and the family doctor Otoniel Flores was long dead and his papers had been destroyed too.

I would hate to say that I "don't believe" Shirley because that's not true either. She was under the influence of a powerfully persuasive woman who injected her with powerful drugs and kept her otherwise medicated for a really really long time. Dr Wilbur also kept Shirley in debt to her for the years of therapy all while helping her to get jobs in the field of mental health. If anyone abused Shirley Mason to the point where her life was ruined, it's sadly more likely to be Dr Wilbur than her mother. The screenwriter expressed a lot of doubt about the stories, even Flora Schreiber expressed doubts about the stories, but everyone just kept going with the business of Sybil, LLC.

Plus, a lot of original material was destroyed when Dr Wilbur died and left her estate to one of her former patients and confidants, who proceed to shred/dispose of a whole lot of papers and notes and whatnot. It's a big mess, basically.

Yeah, that is what I sort of thought but wasn't clear on. Totally going to read this.

But Joanne Woodward's so kindly.

When I was in college, Ed and Lorraine Warren came to speak.

I had a work-study job for the activities board, and was assigned to pick them up in their hotel. I had them sit in the back seat of my Toyota, and I drove them to the college. They did not talk to me or each other for the entire twenty minute ride. I had forgotten some keys in my dorm room, so I had them come with me when I retrieved them. Ed stood downstairs (I think he smoked a cigarette) and Lorraine came up. I tried to make small talk with her, but she just stood in the doorway while I grabbed the keys.

When I went back downstairs, she said "He's got a veeerry interesting room, Eddie" and winked at her husband. And then I didn't sleep for two weeks.