Animated Creatures: ILX's top 100 animated films (results thread)

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My sister claims to still be traumatized by this film some 25 years later.

to welcome jer.fairall, pie is served. (jer.fairall), Monday, 16 July 2012 22:45 (eleven years ago) link

#98T: Gandahar
aka Light Years
dir René Laloux
1988, France
http://i.imgur.com/QH8sG.jpg?1
film

where can i get a mcdonalds quesadilla tho (silby), Monday, 16 July 2012 22:48 (eleven years ago) link

(78 points, 3 votes)

where can i get a mcdonalds quesadilla tho (silby), Monday, 16 July 2012 22:48 (eleven years ago) link

(as implied by the tie I guess)

where can i get a mcdonalds quesadilla tho (silby), Monday, 16 July 2012 22:48 (eleven years ago) link

I love Little Red Riding Hood doing splits over coals.

bamcquern, Monday, 16 July 2012 23:08 (eleven years ago) link

When I was a kid I really liked the bit of Riding Hood showing Bugs Bunny the rabbit in her basket.

bamcquern, Monday, 16 July 2012 23:17 (eleven years ago) link

I thought I watched a lot of cartoons, but I've not even heard of any of these! Not a complaint, btw.

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leeeon Uris (Leee), Tuesday, 17 July 2012 01:15 (eleven years ago) link

Wow, really, When the Wind Blows that low? I thought for sure it'd be in the top 20.

emil.y, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 03:28 (eleven years ago) link

Oh man, Gandahar looks awesome, got to check that one out.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 06:44 (eleven years ago) link

i was one of the three votes for for 'gandahar', dope movie, rad concepts

Lamp, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 07:00 (eleven years ago) link

I'm a little shocked by Where the Wind Blows' placing, I thought it would pick up some notice from the Threads discussion in the horror movies poll. On the other hand, I can see it being a niche character piece and it's not exactly in the canon - Grave of the Fireflies at 98 would amaze me as a comparison.

I will nonetheless go completely ape if The Wrong Trousers, with all of those handicaps, places outside the top 10 :)

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 10:59 (eleven years ago) link

i'm expecting the unexpected, i think the canon has much less stranglehold here. i only voted for one WB short, for example.

ledge, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 11:14 (eleven years ago) link

i put The Wrong Trousers very high on my ballot but seriously dude you need to stop talking about it until it shows up

some dude, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 12:22 (eleven years ago) link

I intend to bring it up every time there's a film well-regarded in the UK and unknown in the US to compare it to. So, not until it shows up.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 12:37 (eleven years ago) link

wallace and gromit are not unknown in the US

some dude, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 12:40 (eleven years ago) link

Gandahar is by the same dude as Planet Sauvage, yes? I had to cut that from my ballot as I've only seen clips and not the whole thing all the way through, but his animation style really is amazing.

emil.y, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 14:35 (eleven years ago) link

Sad, I'm reminded that I didn't beg my pop hard enough to have him take me to see Gandahar when it played in theatres (as Light Years in the US).

Spectrist, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 14:59 (eleven years ago) link

#97: Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro
aka Rupan Sansei: Kariosutoro no Shiro, ルパン三世 カリオストロの城
dir. MIYAZAKI Hayao
1979, Japan
80 points, 2 votes
http://i.imgur.com/OoD1K.jpg?1
trailer

where can i get a mcdonalds quesadilla tho (silby), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 04:11 (eleven years ago) link

Wow, really, When the Wind Blows that low? I thought for sure it'd be in the top 20.

have never been able to make it through a full minute of this, lrn 2 read u heathens my seven-year-old self thinks

¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 05:18 (eleven years ago) link

Have seen Cagliostro twice and still don't remember much about it, except that despite being straightforwardly cartoonish and not at all yer typical Miyazaki film, it was hella fun.

ledge, Wednesday, 18 July 2012 08:24 (eleven years ago) link

lrn 2 read u heathens my seven-year-old self thinks

I'm not sure what you mean here? As in, we should read the book instead and thus the film is worthless? Does that mean you've never enjoyed any adaptation ever? No matter how skilfully directed/acted/edited?

emil.y, Wednesday, 18 July 2012 14:49 (eleven years ago) link

Um... What's the projected time scale for this poll?

I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 15:26 (eleven years ago) link

Faster than it has been; my life is unexpectedly ridiculous lately. Progress shall be made.

where can i get a mcdonalds quesadilla tho (silby), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 15:26 (eleven years ago) link

All good, I was just wondering if the pace was deliberate!

I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link

#95T: 8 Ball Bunny
dir. Chuck Jones
1950, USA
80 points, 3 votes
http://i.imgur.com/Lh26o.jpg
film

#95T: Bad Luck Blackie
dir. Tex Avery
1949, USA
80 points, 3 votes
http://i.imgur.com/n65uK.png?1
film

where can i get a mcdonalds quesadilla tho (silby), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link

#92T: Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honnêamise
aka Ōritsu Uchūgun: Oneamisu no Tsubasa, 王立宇宙軍 オネアミスの翼
dir. YAMAGA Hiroyuki
1987, Japan
82 points, 2 votes
http://i.imgur.com/pvJDD.jpg
empire magazine's jeff yogel gave it four stars, saying 'animation equal to anything from uncle walt'

#92T: The Plague Dogs
dir. Martin Rosen
1982, UK
82 points, 2 votes
http://i.imgur.com/g86ia.jpg
trailer

#92T: Bimbo's Initiation
dir. Dave Fleischer
1981, USA
82 points, 2 votes
http://i.imgur.com/S6ct3.jpg
film

where can i get a mcdonalds quesadilla tho (silby), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 21:21 (eleven years ago) link

Not seen any of that lot. Heard of Plague Dogs due to the Watership Down connection, but never watched it.

emil.y, Wednesday, 18 July 2012 21:24 (eleven years ago) link

Wings of Honneamise is great; there's such loving attention to detail in the construction of its alternate Earth, and it's amazing they managed to produce a big-budget sci-fi movie that's essentially a slow-tempo meditation on what drives humanity forward. It's kinda like a anime counterpart to 2001: Space Odyssey, except that it's not boring.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 July 2012 21:38 (eleven years ago) link

and the trailer posted above says ryuichi sakamoto did the soundtrack!

your friend, (Z S), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 21:41 (eleven years ago) link

Oooooh Sakamoto. Cool!

emil.y, Wednesday, 18 July 2012 21:48 (eleven years ago) link

(Also: ignoring Tuomas on 2001, nyah)

emil.y, Wednesday, 18 July 2012 21:49 (eleven years ago) link

The soundtrack is awesome too.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 July 2012 22:03 (eleven years ago) link

Plague Dogs is great, one of my favorite movies. But totally heartbreaking, esp. if you like dogs.

Team Safeword (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 22:04 (eleven years ago) link

Now I am wishing I had had the time to vote in this poll!

Team Safeword (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 22:05 (eleven years ago) link

#91: Kung Fu Panda
dir. John Wayne Stevenson and Mark Osborne
2008, USA
82 points, 3 votes
http://i.imgur.com/Mz99n.jpg?1
trailer

where can i get a mcdonalds quesadilla tho (silby), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link

too low for Bimbo's Initiation!

I'm not sure what you mean here? As in, we should read the book instead and thus the film is worthless? Does that mean you've never enjoyed any adaptation ever? No matter how skilfully directed/acted/edited?

I'm slightly less hardline about this as a principle than when I was 7. but in this specific case, Briggs is so warm and inviting at first, and (as in all his work) the audience is drawn in so much by how much of a hand-made, one-creator artifact each page and panel is, with the colour so splotched and unblended; and then the adaptation hurls all of that charm away with herky-jerky motions and smoothed-out character models with dead eyes and iirc a really stiff clash btwn flat-colour figures and immobile painted bgs.

UGH I just looked at the first minute or so on youtube to check my decades-old memory and opening with real news footage! having him read TV coverage in the newspaper? crossing back and forth btwn film and cartoon! COMPOSITING FILMED SKIES INTO CARTOON BGS! him on the bus where Jim is animated by one person or team, the teenage couple on the other side are obviously animated by an apprentice team, rocking that 30's bouncy motion, LOOPING one second's action even though they then move afterwards, and the couple up the back being non-animated part of the background UGH UGH UGH

The Snowman can fuck off too imo (actually I've never seen it. I did see the Irn-Bru ad that parodies it, on the internets, though.)

¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Thursday, 19 July 2012 01:20 (eleven years ago) link

I'm p mad at D&Q just for making their G. Jim GN half-size too tbh, I dig my Briggs

¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Thursday, 19 July 2012 01:22 (eleven years ago) link

too low for Bimbo's Initiation!

I'd actually never seen it before seeing it nominated and looking it up — apart from the Popeyes I really didn't know the Fleischer stuff, wouldn't be surprised if others didn't either. The lack of decent home video versions may be partly responsible?

eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Thursday, 19 July 2012 01:36 (eleven years ago) link

Anyway I voted for it.

eatandoph (Neue Jesse Schule), Thursday, 19 July 2012 01:36 (eleven years ago) link

wouldn't have voted it so high myself if I hadn't been reacquainted with it by Jim Woodring showing the whole thing during a lecture at Sydney Opera House last year tbf

¥╡*ٍ*╞¥ (sic), Thursday, 19 July 2012 02:11 (eleven years ago) link

is Kung Fu Panda actually good

Number None, Thursday, 19 July 2012 02:28 (eleven years ago) link

No.

to welcome jer.fairall, pie is served. (jer.fairall), Thursday, 19 July 2012 02:32 (eleven years ago) link

kung fu panda is the first one where i'm really kicking myself i didnt get my shit together enough to vote.

big-mammed punisher (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 19 July 2012 02:35 (eleven years ago) link

don't blame me, i voted for Kung Fu Panda 2

Barack 2 Chainz Obama (some dude), Thursday, 19 July 2012 02:42 (eleven years ago) link

the way i feel about kung fu panda is that if fern gully had come out 4 years ago it might've appeared here too

Mordy, Thursday, 19 July 2012 04:36 (eleven years ago) link

for the Tone Loc rap

Team Safeword (Abbbottt), Thursday, 19 July 2012 04:50 (eleven years ago) link

Kung Fu Panda is one where I spent some time reconsidering where to put it in the ballot - it's shiny and corporate and it has a terrible sequel, but on the other hand it's flawless for what it is, it's funny and fat-positive and a great Kung Fu film made by people who clearly love Kung Fu. That trailer, though, is terrible.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 19 July 2012 07:00 (eleven years ago) link

Found The Wings of Honnêamise pretty dull tbh, protagonist a tool.

ledge, Thursday, 19 July 2012 08:21 (eleven years ago) link

is the sequel terrible? charlie kaufman's involvement gives me certain expectations

NASCAR, surfing, raising chickens, owning land (zachlyon), Thursday, 19 July 2012 10:36 (eleven years ago) link

8 Ball Bunny -- didn't find a decent YT of this, but damn did I feel the surge of memories, I couldn't believe how much empathy it elicited from me (well, there *is* the cute as hell penguin).

Nothing cracks a turtle like Leeeon Uris (Leee), Friday, 20 July 2012 02:27 (eleven years ago) link

someone was playing Alice from a projector in this empty room next door to a bar a few days before i saw it listed at #30 here. I had never heard of it before, but the 30 minutes I saw were trippy as hell.

billstevejim, Thursday, 24 January 2013 06:18 (eleven years ago) link

i can't remember if this is underrated or not
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGAt0GQ703U

an old penis drawing is now "new and notable" (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 24 January 2013 16:00 (eleven years ago) link

did anyone else hang on to their ballot? was really looking forward to checking out everyone's lists.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 6 February 2013 19:44 (eleven years ago) link

^^^

☯ t (wins), Wednesday, 6 February 2013 19:47 (eleven years ago) link

Spirited Away
Alice
Incredibles, The
Rango
Whats Opera, Doc?
Akira
Up
Augusta Feeds Her Child
Your Face
Fantasia
Coraline
Bambi
Slap-Happy Lion, The
Wizard of Speed and Time, The
Toy Story 2
Triplets of Belleville, The
Persepolis
Wall-E
Heaven and Earth Magic
Brave Little Toaster, The
Chicken Run
Duck Amuck
Luncheon
Duck Dodgers in the 24 1/2th Century
Fantastic Mr. Fox
Iron Giant, The
Jumping
Lion King, The
Mechanical Monsters, The
Nightmare Before Christmas, The
One Froggy Evening
Rabbit of Seville, The
Red Hot Riding Hood
Robin Hood Daffy
Scanner Darkly, A
Baby Snakes
Beep, Beep!

Not the most adventurous ballot, but it's all mine, baby. I'm happy that I was able to bring "The Wizard of Speed and Time" to ILX's hivemind attention.

Dr. Alfred P. Falfa (WilliamC), Wednesday, 6 February 2013 19:52 (eleven years ago) link

i found mine! be kind.

1. Fievel: An American Tail
2. I Love to Singa
3. Ratatouille
4. Spirited Away
5. Waltz with Bashir
6. Secret World of Arietty
7. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
8. Wall-E
9. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
10. Secret of NIMH
11. Beauty and the Beast
12. Alice in Wonderland
13. Who Framed Roger Rabbit
14. Toy Story
15. Beavis and Butthead Do America
16. Charlotte's Web
17. Cinderella
18. The Incredibles
19. Kiki's Delivery Service
20. The Lion King
21. Monsters, Inc
22. Princess Mononoke
23. Akira
24. It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown
25. My Neighbor Totoro
26. Betty Boop and Grampy
27. A Scanner Darkly
28. Sleeping Beauty
29. South Park: Bigger, Longer, Uncut
30. Dot and the Kangaroo
31. The Hobbit
32. Coraline
33. Up
34. What's Opera, Doc?
35. Nightmare Before Christmas
36. All Dogs Go to Heaven
37. Aladdin
38. Bambi Meets Godzilla
39. Bambi
40. The Cat Came Back
41. The Brave Little Tailor
42. Pinocchio
43. Lady and the Tramp
44. Mulan
45. Land Before Time
46. The Little Mermaid
47. Peter Pan
48. Toy Story 2
49. The Rescuers
50. The Princess and the Frog

Mordy, Wednesday, 6 February 2013 19:52 (eleven years ago) link

Would quite probably be different if I did it again today, but my ballot:

1. Watership Down
2. When the Wind Blows
3. Spirited Away
4. Jabberwocky
5. One Froggy Evening
6. Motion Painting No. 1
7. Arabesque
8. Wolfman, The
9. Paprika
10. Darkness/Light/Darkness
11. Triplets of Belleville, The
12. Perfect Blue
13. Dot and the Line: A Romance in Lower Mathematics, The
14. Animal Farm
15. Wall-E
16. Komposition in Blau
17. Cat Came Back, The
18. What's Opera, Doc?
19. The Aristocats
20. Nightmare Before Christmas, The
21. My Neighbour Totoro
22. Persepolis
23. Robin Hood
25. Wizard of Speed and Time, The

emil.y, Wednesday, 6 February 2013 19:59 (eleven years ago) link

'spirited away' is the one i most regret leaving off. i rewatched it a couple weeks ago and it's just as good as everyone else says it is.

i vaguely remember seeing 'dot and the kangaroo.' didn't they make a bunch of other 'dot' movies in the 80s?

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 6 February 2013 20:16 (eleven years ago) link

Man, hope that's just the intro to _Tetsuo 3: Paperman_ and shit gets rolling in the next scene.

Øystein, Wednesday, 6 February 2013 21:09 (eleven years ago) link

my ballot

1 gantz graf
2 spirited away
3 paprika
4 your face
5 Creature Comforts
6 luxo jr
7 duck amuk
8 up
9 my neighbor totoro
10 akira
11 mind game
12 grand day out
13 who framed roger rabbit
14 Alice
15 a scanner darkly
16 wall-e
17 toy story 3
18 the wrong trousers
19 castle of cagliostro
20 Storytime
21 Girl who Leapt Through Time, The
22 porco rosso
23 watership down
24 jungle book
25 the tune
26 sledgehammer
27 when the wind blows
28 waltz with bashir
29 Triplets of Belleville, The
30 fell in love with a girl
31 gandahar
32 fantastic planet
33 patlabor 2
34 Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
35 shrek
36 Yellow Submarine, The

ledge, Thursday, 7 February 2013 09:30 (eleven years ago) link

Wrong Trousers, The
Toy Story 2
Lilo & Stitch
What’s Opera, Doc?
Spirited Away
Robin Hood Daffy
Duck Amuck
Alice
Toy Story
Close Shave, A (Wallace and Gromit)
Up
Finding Nemo
Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
Yellow Submarine, The
South Park
Princess Mononoke
Akira
Scanner Darkly, A
Millennium Actress
Tin Toy
Grand Day Out (Wallace and Gromit)
To Beep or Not To Beep
Duck Dodgers in the 24 ½th Century
Kung Fu Panda
Dimensions of Dialogue
Hopalong Casualty
Curse of the Were-Rabbit, The
Lord of the Rings, The
Chicken Run
Feed The Kitty
Monsters, Inc.
Nightmare Before Christmas, The
Toy Story 3
My Neighbor Totoro
Kiss Me Cat
Red Hot Riding Hood
Wall-E
One Froggy Evening
Bully for Bugs <- Write-in vote, genuinely surprised it wasn't nominated.
Emperor’s New Groove, The
Matter of Loaf and Death, A (Wallace and Gromit)
Incredibles, The
Rango
Creature Comforts
Tangled
When the Wind Blows
Ratatoullie
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Antz
Kiki’s Delivery Service

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 7 February 2013 09:39 (eleven years ago) link

http://goodfil.ms/films/by_genre/3-animation/most_popular

ledge, Tuesday, 12 February 2013 11:48 (eleven years ago) link

I like ours better.

Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Tuesday, 12 February 2013 20:15 (eleven years ago) link

Just watched Coraline, pretty disappointed. It seemed so sparse, full of dead air or cursorily written lines like it was just a draft script. The music was similarly thin and the set pieces were just odd - the mouse circus was boring, the old actresses' mermaid & venus double act frankly bizarre. And the story was cut and pasted from a bunch of traditional fairy tales with no spark of its own.

ledge, Saturday, 16 February 2013 23:42 (eleven years ago) link

On further reflection I think it just wasn't creepy or weird enough. Don't really know the age range of the book but this was firmly in young kids territory where it could have been closer to young adults; and having the entire film animated meant the other world never seemed other worldly; if the real world had been live action or even just done in a different style... would like an idea of what the book was like but bleugh.

ledge, Sunday, 17 February 2013 10:12 (eleven years ago) link

and having the entire film animated meant the other world never seemed other worldly; if the real world had been live action or even just done in a different style...

the 3D handled this beautifully though - when she first looks out into the "other" backyard and the rear of the image just plummets away from you, and then the whole world stays so depth-enhanced for her whole adventure there

( ͡° ͜ʖ͡°) (sic), Sunday, 17 February 2013 12:55 (eleven years ago) link

my ballot:

1. Fantasia
2. What’s Opera, Doc?
3. Wall-E
4. Wrong Trousers, The
5. Duck Amuck
6. How the Grinch Stole Christmas
7. It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown
8. Nightmare Before Christmas, The
9. Iron Giant, The
10. Ratatoullie
11. Robin Hood
12. Robin Hood Daffy
13. Hobbit, The
14. Sledgehammer (Peter Gabriel)
15. Incredibles, The
16. Up
17. Rabbit of Seville, The
18. Porky in Wackyland
19. Rabbit Seasoning
20. Pinocchio
21. Charlie Brown Christmas, A
22. Monsters, Inc.
23. Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
24. Little Red Riding Rabbit
25. Little Hiawatha
26. Emperor’s New Groove, The
27. Aristocats, The
28. Charlotte’s Web
29. Creature Comforts
30. Sword in the Stone, The
31. Finding Nemo
32. Rabbit Fire
33. South Park
34. Transformers: The Movie, The
35. Toy Story
36. Close Shave, A (Wallace and Gromit)
37. Duck Dodgers in the 24 ½th Century
38. Alice in Wonderland
39. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
40. Last Unicorn, The
41. Jungle Book, The
42. Fantastic Mr. Fox
43. Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, The
44. Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, The
45. Lilo & Stitch
46. Gulliver’s Travels
47. Grand Day Out (Wallace and Gromit)
48. One Hundred and One Dalmatians
49. Anastasia
50. Birds Anonymous

weed, tumblr whites and wein (some dude), Sunday, 17 February 2013 13:03 (eleven years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Think this was my ballot

1. Wall-E
2. Secret of Kells, The
3. Spirited Away
4. Iron Giant, the
5. Dumbo
6. Ratatoullie
7. Ghost in the Shell
8. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
9. Duck Amuck
10. Paprika
11. Incredibles, The
12. Toy Story 2
13. Monsters, Inc.
14. Finding Nemo
15. Brave
16. Duck Dodgers in the 24 ½th Century
17. G.I. Joe: The Movie
18. Feed the kitty
19. Scarlet Pumpernickel, The
20. 8 Ball Bunny
21. Great Piggy Bank Robbery, The
22. Operation: Rabbit
23. Robin Hood Daffy
24. kiss me cat
25. Bad Luck Blackie
26. Rabbit Fire
27. walky talky hawky
28. Beep, Beep!
29. Toy Story 3
30. Brave Little Toaster, The
31. Porky in Wackyland
32. What’s Opera, Doc?
33. I love to singa
34. Amazing Screw-On Head, The

Should've included Ponyo.

Also, Russian shorts like this that I just found:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUXNN9kk89o

Liz Phair Dinkum (Leee), Monday, 4 March 2013 06:10 (eleven years ago) link

six months pass...

Okay, so I'm in a fairly bad place at the moment anyway, but Film4 just showed Grave of the Fireflies and I basically just wept continuously for half an hour at the end. Really good film.

emil.y, Thursday, 12 September 2013 02:13 (ten years ago) link

haha just the thing to cheer you up! i bought some of these the other day

http://i.imgur.com/o3zYFZf.jpg

Hiroyasu Ishida is a name to watch out for, he made the following two short films on his own while at university, the second one was his graduation film. both won nearly every award going.

Fumiko's Confession

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QqT1P4VO30

Rain Town

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLAfM1RXwRs

his first "proper" film is coming out soon, here's a key visual

http://i.imgur.com/50uQMA7.jpg

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Thursday, 12 September 2013 10:16 (ten years ago) link

looks gorgeous.
however, suspect i will forget to record it with film4 show it at 2:45am in 2 years time.

mark e, Thursday, 12 September 2013 10:49 (ten years ago) link

seven months pass...

problem with the ILX poll (wait for it):

too much from the last 25 years

images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 16:41 (ten years ago) link

Finally, a list that includes Heavy Traffic!

Inside Lewellyn Sinclair (cryptosicko), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 17:19 (ten years ago) link


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