Pazz & Jop 2008

so this is pretty much what everyone expected, huh? i'll also say i'm pleased erykah got love

I know it's silly to complain about this poll being too MOR or whatever, but I'm kinda surprised how high Coldplay, Adele and Duffy got on the singles list.

I submitted an all-metal Top Ten, but if I hadn't, the Erykah Badu album would have made my list.

A guess--less bloggers and more contributors to regional newspapers. Also, internet or not, those who get commercial radio and tv or movie soundtrack attention do better, especially if they're pop.

Holy shit, that's like a Galactus of consensus

Where were you at ringtone cru?

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/singles/2008/WWFoaGgh

I wonder how many folks who voted in last year's idolator poll did or did not vote in this year's pazz & jop. I just spaced out on the name of that guy who does all the mathematical calculation on the number of ballots (etc.), but hopefully he will eventually show up here with such information.

That would be Glenn Mcdonald, who's currently busy helping with the roll out of the ILX Metal poll. But I'm sure he'll be here.

I didn't submit a ballot, just submitted the comment, but had there been an Idolator poll I would have done the same there.

"Donk" was almost on my ballot. "Yahhh" was never a contender.

Kinda surprised that I'm the only person that voted for "Lookin' Boy," but then part of my reasoning for voting for it was that everyone seemed to love it over the summer and then forget about it by September.

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2008/VGhlIFJlY2Vzc2lvbg==

Jeezy album ballots

they used my jeezy joke, which was nice. they also put me back in tennessee, where i haven't lived for 6 years, but that's ok. makes me sound more exotic.

torche was the highest album finisher i voted for. the only other things i voted for in the top 50 were jeezy and gang gang dance. i'm really kinda surprised how low ggd placed but shows what i know. also wondering how bad an album kanye will have to make to not get grandfathered into the top 10.

yeah, I knew 808s would be his lowest placing album to date, but I thought it'd be by a bigger margin (Graduation was only 1 spot higher last year). that album amassed a pretty large number of defenders.

any idea how many voted this time?

My favorite ballot so far (four Flipper albums!):

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2008/685463

I also think it's funny that the Top 40 albums includes bands called both Fleet Foxes and Frightened Rabbit (the latter of whom I swear I never heard of before, though I probably just wasn't paying attention.)

And Eddy Current Suppression Ring finished 73rd -- hey, that's pretty good! (Would have done even better if I'd voted for them, but still.)

woot Portishead!

I'm so tired of people always saying "woot Portishead"

woot woot Portishead

see, there they go again

Another thing I had no idea of til now: That some people still care about the Walkmen (32nd!?) and the Black Keys (55th).

Did Jess Harvell and M. Matos just post their lists at idolator or on blogs because they did not vote in P & J

so was that walkmen album any good after all? the third one was so blah i more or less gave up on 'em.

barely anyone voted for what i voted for, which i should be used to by now, but still bums me out.

seriously, only seven people voted for Atlas Sound, including me? come the fuck on.

only place i've seen Jess's top 10 is here: http://www.citypaper.com/special/story.asp?id=17187

matos' is there, too.

Thanks. x-post

But the Deerhunter one got a bunch of votes. I read someone describe the Walkmen album as a comeback effort that should be heard, but I never got around to hearing it.

I'm pretty sure both are considered persona non grata at New Times publications.

I seriously doubt the New Times would force P&J reject their ballots, though, if they wanted to vote. (Though I could be wrong.)

I totally forgot this was still happening!

(But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.)

I know this has already been called out, but WOW.

This ILM contributer also had a comment.

Btw: Is anyone else shocked Malkmus didn't place higher?

Who else rendered a song about fucking that somehow evokes every accidental headbutt, elbow in the eye, broken bed, leg cramp, and belly fart of lovemaking like the sloppy finale, "Lover's Day"?

Was is the horns that evoked the belly fart?

Was it, rather

Love that Kathleen Edwards placed before Laura Marling, Jenny Lewis, etc.

It looks like the only NY Times writer to participate is Jon Caramanica. No Ann Powers from the LA Times.

How many non-amurican writers participate(and do they have to write for American sites or publications)? I see Tim Finney.

Anthony Easton is Canadian.

Vampire Weekend make more amusing and thought-provoking play from the signifiers of wealth and exclusivity than any rapper I've heard these past several years. (But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.)

Even ignoring the latter part, surely Simey would recognize that the hiphopers' nouveau-riche anthems and VW's old-monied signifiers are coming from completely different places? Faulting an against-all-odds, self-made man for not exuding the trappings of wealth as properly as a priveledged trust-funder seems kind of asinine.

I think he's entirely aware of that; I take it as him arguing that old-money japery of VW is more interesting than the new-money braggadocio of hip-hop. And given how utterly fucking boring and creatively bankrupt that side of hip-hop is at this point, I can only say that I don't like Vampire Weekend either.

This is the same Simon Reynolds who was bothered by M.I.A.'s music because it wasn't real enough, aka the Simon Reynolds I stopped paying attention to.

plus she wasn't "exotic" enough (or some such) for him.

>This is the same Simon Reynolds who was bothered by M.I.A.'s music because it wasn't real enough, aka the Simon Reynolds I stopped paying attention to.

Yeah, it's important to have only one yardstick by which you measure every single artist.

How many non-amurican writers participate(and do they have to write for American sites or publications)? I see Tim Finney.

― curmudgeon, Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:06 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Anthony Easton is Canadian.

― dan, Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:35 PM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Ditto Phil Dellio, Barry Bruner, Ian Mathers, and probably a couple more I don't know. Jonathan Bradley is, like Tim, Australian. And Reynolds is, of course, British, though he lives in the US now.

the signifiers of wealth and exclusivity than any rapper I've heard these past several years.

so for us non-rock critics, this basically means dressing like "popular kid" extras in a john hughes movie?

also i heard that record and it's pretty tame rhymically to me, esp considering how Nomo fucking BROUGHT it so hard with african influenced stuff on Ghost Rock...or other bands like Gang Gang Dance etc etc

Q: what is it called when you at first really hated some indie critic's darling, but eventually reached a point where you just don't care enough to argue?

A: vamp ire, weakened

Ha

I like when VW quote Lil Jon

Heh, apparently I'm from New York now. And the way the two pages are formatted, my comment is credited on a completely separate page, so it looks like my name is paired with Michael Barthel's comments.

Yeah, it's important to have only one yardstick by which you measure every single artist.

Is this directed towards me or towards Reynolds? I can't tell if you are sarcastically mocking me for not caring about what Reynolds had to say after he accused an artist who pretty much freely admitted that she was ripping off a whole bunch of world music styles to make Western club music of not being authentic enough or sarcastically mocking Reynolds for privileging "keeping it real" above all else.

real links to your real ballots please. this thread could use some real laffs.

Laff away.

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2008/686603

:/

speaking of which: anyone heard Hot Chip and Peeta Gabriel too?

pink shorts = secret to awesome rhythms

i want to belatedly otm rev's point about rhythms in hip-hop being in the vocal lines as much or more than the beats. i know that's not what reynolds was thinking of, but that in itself says a lot.

pink shorts = secret to awesome rhythms

It's "riddims."

"riddim" this!

I went and looked up K'naan, who I didn't know. Album originally came out in 2005, so that might be part of why he didn't get more votes. But I think you'll agree that this, cribbed from iTunes, is all the explanation you need:

There is nothing i can say about K'naan accept pure poetry. This is the rap people should be listening to on the radios! I just can't imagine why this isnt more popular. Truely great in all ways K'naan Your a role model in the rap community.

Note that the apostrophe in "can't" is in the original.

if the drummer has a hard time keeping a beat you'd think it would make their "deft" ability to "deal with rhythm well" a pretty theoretical pleasure

i want to belatedly otm rev's point about rhythms in hip-hop being in the vocal lines as much or more than the beats

The appearance of these two statements in close proximity is not making me feel particularly better about the thing I'm saying bugs me -- in this case, one person thoughtfully talking about rhythm in hip-hop in terms of things like the fine metrical variations of the rapping, and another person talking about rhythm in a rock band in terms of "what beat is the drummer playing," as if rhythmic elements are not carried in vocal meter and guitar accents and melodies and c.!

(That is not really a bit of scolding, except like a half-scold to croupier, who is kinda weirdly asking for burden-of-proof elaboration from the person who's not offering a judgment here)

nabisco, do you actually hear something really rhythmically interesting going on in Vampire Weekend's vocal delivery and guitar lines you could expand on? (Also, even in hip-hop, the fact that the basic beat is still pretty solid is what allows for the 'fine metrical variations of the rapping' to actually sound like fine metrical variations, surely.)

xpost

yeah, i agree with what yr saying nabisco, except that to me vampire weekend's uninterestingness doesn't begin or end with their drummer or beats per se, neither of which i think are terrible. the band as a whole (very much including the vocals) don't strike me as very interesting, rhythmically or otherwise. in terms of the rhythms specifically, there's very little depth to the band's engagement with its grooves, but the shallowness isn't imaginatively shallow (or paranoid and skittery, like the kind of dry-brittle rhythms you get in yr finer post-punk material).

Nabisco, I realize that was addressed more at croup than me, but I'd be the first to tell you that what's interesting about VW, rhythmically comes more from the guitar, bass, and keys (less so the vocals) than strictly from the drumbeats. Probably even more so from the way they all interact!

Sundar, he's not passing judgment on Vampire Weekend's rhythmic interest. He's saying that since so few of us understand rhythm in the first place (some of us even think it requires competency on the part of the musicians to appreciate its deft handling!) we shouldn't throw stones at those who claim to find it interesting.

it's 2009

stop talking about this band

I think you have to wait for the follow-up for that to happen

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/4/7151287_5d254b3944.jpg?v=0

Nachtmystium, Assassins: Black Meddle Vol. 1: Melody and groove were once as taboo in black metal as smiling, group hugs, and subscriptions to Cat Fancy, but this Chicago battering ram harnesses both into moments of dirt-beneath-the-fingernails grandeur, harsh atmosphere and Pink Floyd–indebted sonic landscaping that add new hues to the genre's once monochromatic palate. The Euros have had black metal in a headlock since its inception, but these dudes begin to pry Scandinavia's clammy hands from around its throat.

Jason Bracelin
Las Vegas, NV

So I wonder if this metal band does exhibit "melody and groove"

They're into the groove on this video-

A vivid demonstration of Chuck's point about indie dominance: I just went through the top 100 looking up anybody I couldn't immediately hum something by, and it was uncanny how many had Fleet Foxes in their "listeners also bought" list. And uncanny how few I bought.

On the other hand, I've listened to "If Rap Gets Jealous" about 9 times now. Rather more charming in the original version, I think, so I don't know if that bodes well for the new album.

i can't believe i ran and collated a couple of consensus polls before

I've listened to "If Rap Gets Jealous" about 9 times now. Rather more charming in the original version, I think, so I don't know if that bodes well for the new album.

Haven't figured out which version (or which album, having just recently gotten the new one) I prefer yet, but I assume you know that Kirk Hammett plays on the new version, right? (Pretty sure I like it better than anything on last year's Metallica album.)

Yeah, not sure Kirk adds much, but I'll wait until I can hear a better-quality version of the new version before giving up on it.

hey, they do get into the "Stranglehold" groove there (sort of), Steve. no lie.

xp

Late to say something, but the whole Q-Tip album grows on you--I wish I'd thrown my points behind it instead of the usual non-placers. Oh, and I voted for four hip-hop albums. Didn't vote for The Dusty Foot Philosopher, but liked it.

It's interesting that Pazz & Jop got 577 people to vote, while Continuum Press 33 1/3 series got 597 FULL PROPOSALS for books last month.

Fascinating.

Well sure, but each proposal only had to come up with a single album, and it didn't even have to have made its "impact" this year...

This is beginning to feel like a dog's lost a bone.

I don’t think you’d like it but “the 59 sound” is one of my favorite records ever