Old School - Nethack

both games are pretty similar in structure though, in that the early game is about survival, then once you get over that hump you can kind of just cruise through the midgame except for some challenging 'boss' maps, then the final sequence is beyond insane

here's a general strategy question about nethack:

i've found that if i take the early levels really slowly i can level up earlier on. i know the monsters that appear are something like dungeon level + character level / 2, so has anyone found whether it's good to move slower to build up character levels (and hp) while keeping a low dungeon level, or if you do want to move with some speed so that you can get better equipment before your character level alone throws you against more difficult monsters?

i always used to check each level as thoroughly as possible but that's more a general personality issue than a strategy

there's one early-game strategy specifically that involves reaching gnometown at level one, it sounds kind of lame though

i've also found that i greatly prefer being neutral or chaotic so that i can kill all those gnomes. good xp, decent early equipment from the dwarves, etc.

the gnome equipment is the sort of stuff you find yourself annoyed if you're still hanging on to it through the midgame i think? also i swear i remember doing a great deal of gnome murder with lawful characters. gnome and dwarf characters they're friendly too. i thought. i don't know.

i think u do need a decent set of armor for the midgame, AC around 0 or less from armor, boots, helm, cloak, gloves, shield, etc can be good.

nethack AC drops to way less than you might be thinking if you're still thinking in terms of d&d fyi

like a 'good' ac is ~ -20, if it is the focus of a strategy ppl will go for ~ -40

I'd definitely recommend the patient approach, assuming you have enough food that hunger's not a concern. Having enough hit-points is what lets you go toe-to-toe with the monsters.

+1 on Brogue. The prettiest ASCII game out there, super easy Levels 1-3, impossible Levels 8+. The auto play function is one of the coolest things ever

Gonna give Binding of Isaac a shot, Mordy try ADOM one day

Oh yah and relate heroic tragedies I love that shit

Best I ever did. Made it back down to the quest, mostly because early on I rubbed a lamp, got a wish, and asked for gray dragon scale mail (someone suggested it). Did blazingly well. Finally, tho, got down to a floor just filled with monsters. I made it passed them once, but I kept tempting fate by going back into the room/floor (I wanted to backtrack a bit) and ultimately they killed me. I think a leocrotta did the actual kill.

I ended up piously aligned, poison resistant (Barbarian), magic-protected (from the armor), telepathic (from an amulet), invisible (desperately quaffing potions to stave off death), fast (idk), fixed abilities (idk), lucky (not lucky enough apparently), and dead. I killed 242 creatures including a chickatrice (had gloves but it didn't leave a corpse), a doppelganger (that was weird), a long worm (got his tooth, but never got an enchant weapon scroll - I was actually backtracking to hit up a scroll store so I could enchant it), and a gelatinous cube (yeah, I ate it, so what?).

I used 1 wish, and didn't wish for any artifacts.

I would tell you my score, but every other game my application crashes before displaying my score and so. Ya know. Too bad.

in the beginning you care about the names u give your characters. in case this is the one that makes it to the end, u want to remember them w/ an appropriately heroic name. but tonight, the shopkeeper shouted out to my dwarven valkyrie: "Velkommen, Lawfucker! Welcome to Ymla's hardware store!"

Lawfucker is pretty good. Chickum McMagnets was mine for a while

so i played a bunch last night. had a few very disappointing encounters, but my final one of the night (which began at 10ish and which I saved and quit at 1 since i had to sleep) has been a smashing success. so successful in fact that i'm worried about playing more w/out devoting my full attention bc i don't want to lose my char.

anyway, L13 dwarven valkyrie.

a couple early things went right that made a big difference. i got Excalibur from dipping my longsword the moment i hit L5, and shortly thereafter found a magic marker, a cloak of displacement (which is tremendous), +2 pair of gauntlets of dexterity, picked up an amulet of reflection from Soboken (which i solved for the first time), a bag of holding just lying on the dungeon floor, and TWO unicorn horns. now i'm a few floors past the Quest (got to level that had tons of water before I quit for the night), though I haven't been able to play the Quest yet bc it says I'm not high enough level. i think at L14 i can do it, tho, and the valkyrie quest item looks tremendous.

i'm pretty much strong enough at this point that i can solo dragons (i actually got some red dragon mail that i'm wondering if i should enchant since i'm not sure if i have fire protection yet - obv w/ amulet of reflection what i really want is grey dragon mail for the magic protection). a couple concerns tho: the only altar i've ever found was in minetown and it was no coaligned so i couldn't sacrifice on it. not a huge biggie (esp since i already have an endgame weapon) but it has come up as a problem a few times - particular re blessing water to get holy water (so i can dip some stuff - including a cursed tanning kit i got off bones). i did briefly find another unprotected altar, but i got to it by hitting a level teleport and then once i saw it, my very next step hit another level teleport and i haven't seen it again.

also - practically no stores! i've got something like 20k gold sitting in my bag of holding (along with a slew of identified wands and scrolls) and i've only run into 2 stores outside Minetown, and all the Minetown stores and those stores had basically nothing worth buying. i wonder if i can possibly run into anymore stores this far down in the dungeon. if not, maybe i should just stash all my gold somewhere. idk. i've never gotten this far, so if you guys have any advice, i'm very receptive. i'd hate for my char to die, but i know that i'm not ready for Gehinnim and below (for one, i should probably find a ring of levitation in the very near future).

you're hitting the same 'remember these two things from spoilers' bit that i always did (dipping a longsword, wishing for gray scale mail) so probably beyond any point where i can offer actual advice

My eyes are hazy and I read "ring of levitation" as "ring of television". Sounds like you've got lots of things to do before Gehennom?

i guess- i'm at the point in the game where i don't know what happens next, and far down enough where the general netbook advice doesn't really help. i've killed 2 liches + a mind flayer (elbereth + wands of striking/fire/lightning), and i've got a ton of resistances, tho i'm not positive which ones i'm missing. i'm putting my ascension kit together tho!

q: is the best use for my blank scrolls + magic markers making enchant armor scrolls?

Ohhhh you're doing Elbereth? Oh my god Nethack is the cruelest. Make sure you bless that magic marker iirc

elbereth is some straight up bullshit imo, one of the things i never liked about nethack was having 'cheats' built into the game like that which required spoilers

especially since you pretty much have to use them to have a chance

I'd forgotten about Elbereth that is straight up irritating but yeah I used it on my winning character too

i tried to resist using it until i learned about it in game somehow, but when facing off against a lich + mind slayer, having gotten farther along than ever before, i sac'd my principles on the altar of winning. i don't regret it.

and i'd love to bless my magic marker but i need to find an altar first so i can make some holy water!

you don't necessarily want to bless your magic marker because you wouldn't be able to write cursed scrolls (there are some benefits to them). best to keep it uncursed and bless/unbless blank scrolls as needed.

if you've hit a place where you can't spend your money anymore (no more shops), you should consider donating some to a temple. priests in temples look kindly on donations. there isn't much point in carrying it around after that, so stash it somewhere safe. it will weigh you down so that you can't carry other better stuff.

level 15 dwarven valkyrie - in the end i had a cloak of displacement, an amulet of reflection, the quest orb, a bag of holding, an excalibur +4, some boots of speed, a ton of wands, scrolls, etc. i had everything! (almost) but no ring of levitation. which meant that after i used wand of digging to skip medusa, that meant i couldn't backtrack from that point, and then i quickly hit the Castle - fell through a trap door - and died fending out a million crazy lichs, dragons, mind eaters, vampires, disenchanters, etc in Gehennom 1: level 27.

Resistances: Fire, cold, sleep, shock, poison, level-drain. I was warned, automatic searching, infravision, stealthy, regenerated, very fast, reflection, lucky, extra luck, and good luck did not time out for me.

I vanquished 1580 creatures. I used no wishes.

gg, taking a break for a few days.

my lesson from this: ring of levitation is essential

that ring is worth a wish.

trust me, if i had found a wish i would've used it on that ring!

ironically, isn't there a guaranteed wand of wishing in the castle if you hadn't fallen down the trapdoor?

...yes

i'll lick this thing yet!

i'll lick lich this thing yet!

Mordy I'm not going to broken-record this on the Nethack thread but please try ADOM for a moment it's unbearable to read about the unfairness and insanity of Nethack, this is the last time I'll say it I promise.

Yeah, adom is good.

i can't help but feel like moving on from nethack without beating it first is a huge copout, but i'll check out adom

drowned in a moat by a water eel

sorry i have still not played ATOM but i would like to say

NETHACK IS THE MOST ADDICTIVE GREATEST FUCKING GAME OF ALL TIME

that is all thx for ur time etc

i just got to level 11 in brogue before dying. gonna delete now, before life passes me by.

ring of slow digestion really changes the game -- suddenly you can backtrack all you want w/out fear of running out of food

hey soda that is probably way further than i got before i deleted. read some "i won!" accounts and you'll be glad you did, that game just gets harder and harder. pretty, tho!

yeah roguelikes are super-addictive, probably the most addictive. i'm playing skyrim an hour a day these days and it feels way addictive but it wouldn't keep me awake all night the way nethack/adom/moria has done

I always get killed by a swarm of monsters in the damn gnomish mines.

anybody have success running ADOM on osx/leopard?

i'm taking a brief break from this game, so if you guys could give some feedback that would be good. i've got a magic lamp that i haven't used yet. i also have 7 holy water bottles so i can bless the lamp and then use it for a wish. normally at this point i'd wish for a grey dragon mail for the magic resistance (i got an amulet from sokoben), however i didn't get a bag of holding in gnomish mines (2 oilskin bags instead, bleh) and i could really use one. should i wish for a bag of holding instead? i'm only around level 7 or 8 in the main dungeon so i guess it's possible i could find one on the way down? i could also find more wishes... i do have a ring of levitation (and boots of levitation - when it rains...) so if i could manage my encumbrance and make it down to the castle (big if maybe?) there's a wand of wishing there and i could grab the bag. hitting the castle w/out some dragon mail armor concerns me tho.

advice? opinions?

yay, you guys all showed up while i was typing this, so plz give out teh advice

@ soda, I played ADOM twice to completion on OSX Snow Leopard. It seems to be working fine. Don't play Jade, by the way, it still in alpha and isn't any fun anyway.

@ Mordy I forget the priority sequence of items in Nethack at this point but I'd say just get the mail.

The good news is that I barely need any food bc of slow digestion. I do worry about managing my encumbrance otherwise... I hate leaving potentially useful scrolls/potions/wands behind.

iirc "potentially useful" is useless, "obviously necessary" is what you're looking for

woo! so i actually cleared the castle w/out even using the one wish, grabbed the wand, conjured up some recharge scrolls, and wished the mail, the bag of holding, the gauntlets of power, and now trying to figure out what to use the rest on. i've got the amulet of reflection, an uncursed hawaiian shirt +2, the uncursed small shield +3 valykrie starts with, normal helmet, rings of levitation, conflict, slow digestion, free action, (a cursed ring of polymorph control - in case i want to do something with that, i know where there's a polymorph trap handy), an uncursed luckstone, Mjollnir (which I guess I can throw now bc of the gauntlets), a few unicorn horns, a magic lamp...

def open to suggestions from experienced ppl. i haven't gone down into gehennim yet. oh, also i've blessed genocided all liches and eels. some wishes i was considering (my wand is at 1:1, which i think means i have one wish from it left, so that, plus 80% chance of a wish from my magic lamp):

speed boots/jumping boots? (seems like a waste - tho i haven't found them yet, they're not super uncommon + i've already blasted myself with a wand of speed and have valkyrie speed adv so i think i may be covered here?)
uncursed magic marker for, i guess, enchant weapon and enchant armor scrolls (i actually have an uncursed magic marker already at 0:31, so this might be a mistake -- i think i can recharge it and i have two recharge scrolls left to use on it)
Cloak of magic resistance -- i don't actually have a good cloak yet, and i know this is a popular combo w/ the mail and reflection amulet

um - blessed tinning kit? i have some intrinsics (poison, acid, cold) but not all
cloak of displacement? i already have invisibility intrinsic somehow - not sure how i got it

It might be time to check to see if you have been fired from your job whilst not paying attention