Old School - Nethack

shift+@, but i've gotta hit it whenever i start a new game. essential tho.

still don't get why you would play nethack in 2012 when dungeon crawl exists. much better game imo

maybe its just because i could never beat nethack though, whereas i've won DCSS a few times

anyone else been messing with the xbox version of semi-roguelike platformer spelunky? i know it came out for pc a zillion years ago (for free) but it feels way more fun with a controller. (tho i'm not sure if the pc version has controller support, it probably does).

nethack is a lot of fun specifically bc of how challenging it is

that said, i've never played dungeon crawl so idk it might very well be better + more fun in every way!

despite what people say, i think DCSS is no harder than nethack, or at least it's better at rewarding logical thinking and caution. (this is also why i think it's a better game). i've had a lot of nethack deaths that seemed completely unavoidable (enemy randomly has a wand of death or whatever) whereas every time i've died in the mid-to-late game in DCSS, it was immediately obvious what i did wrong.

also, the hell levels in DCSS are a way more terrifying experience than should be possible in a game with ascii graphics.

both games are pretty similar in structure though, in that the early game is about survival, then once you get over that hump you can kind of just cruise through the midgame except for some challenging 'boss' maps, then the final sequence is beyond insane

here's a general strategy question about nethack:

i've found that if i take the early levels really slowly i can level up earlier on. i know the monsters that appear are something like dungeon level + character level / 2, so has anyone found whether it's good to move slower to build up character levels (and hp) while keeping a low dungeon level, or if you do want to move with some speed so that you can get better equipment before your character level alone throws you against more difficult monsters?

i always used to check each level as thoroughly as possible but that's more a general personality issue than a strategy

there's one early-game strategy specifically that involves reaching gnometown at level one, it sounds kind of lame though

i've also found that i greatly prefer being neutral or chaotic so that i can kill all those gnomes. good xp, decent early equipment from the dwarves, etc.

the gnome equipment is the sort of stuff you find yourself annoyed if you're still hanging on to it through the midgame i think? also i swear i remember doing a great deal of gnome murder with lawful characters. gnome and dwarf characters they're friendly too. i thought. i don't know.

i think u do need a decent set of armor for the midgame, AC around 0 or less from armor, boots, helm, cloak, gloves, shield, etc can be good.

nethack AC drops to way less than you might be thinking if you're still thinking in terms of d&d fyi

like a 'good' ac is ~ -20, if it is the focus of a strategy ppl will go for ~ -40

I'd definitely recommend the patient approach, assuming you have enough food that hunger's not a concern. Having enough hit-points is what lets you go toe-to-toe with the monsters.

+1 on Brogue. The prettiest ASCII game out there, super easy Levels 1-3, impossible Levels 8+. The auto play function is one of the coolest things ever

Gonna give Binding of Isaac a shot, Mordy try ADOM one day

Oh yah and relate heroic tragedies I love that shit

Best I ever did. Made it back down to the quest, mostly because early on I rubbed a lamp, got a wish, and asked for gray dragon scale mail (someone suggested it). Did blazingly well. Finally, tho, got down to a floor just filled with monsters. I made it passed them once, but I kept tempting fate by going back into the room/floor (I wanted to backtrack a bit) and ultimately they killed me. I think a leocrotta did the actual kill.

I ended up piously aligned, poison resistant (Barbarian), magic-protected (from the armor), telepathic (from an amulet), invisible (desperately quaffing potions to stave off death), fast (idk), fixed abilities (idk), lucky (not lucky enough apparently), and dead. I killed 242 creatures including a chickatrice (had gloves but it didn't leave a corpse), a doppelganger (that was weird), a long worm (got his tooth, but never got an enchant weapon scroll - I was actually backtracking to hit up a scroll store so I could enchant it), and a gelatinous cube (yeah, I ate it, so what?).

I used 1 wish, and didn't wish for any artifacts.

I would tell you my score, but every other game my application crashes before displaying my score and so. Ya know. Too bad.

in the beginning you care about the names u give your characters. in case this is the one that makes it to the end, u want to remember them w/ an appropriately heroic name. but tonight, the shopkeeper shouted out to my dwarven valkyrie: "Velkommen, Lawfucker! Welcome to Ymla's hardware store!"

Lawfucker is pretty good. Chickum McMagnets was mine for a while

so i played a bunch last night. had a few very disappointing encounters, but my final one of the night (which began at 10ish and which I saved and quit at 1 since i had to sleep) has been a smashing success. so successful in fact that i'm worried about playing more w/out devoting my full attention bc i don't want to lose my char.

anyway, L13 dwarven valkyrie.

a couple early things went right that made a big difference. i got Excalibur from dipping my longsword the moment i hit L5, and shortly thereafter found a magic marker, a cloak of displacement (which is tremendous), +2 pair of gauntlets of dexterity, picked up an amulet of reflection from Soboken (which i solved for the first time), a bag of holding just lying on the dungeon floor, and TWO unicorn horns. now i'm a few floors past the Quest (got to level that had tons of water before I quit for the night), though I haven't been able to play the Quest yet bc it says I'm not high enough level. i think at L14 i can do it, tho, and the valkyrie quest item looks tremendous.

i'm pretty much strong enough at this point that i can solo dragons (i actually got some red dragon mail that i'm wondering if i should enchant since i'm not sure if i have fire protection yet - obv w/ amulet of reflection what i really want is grey dragon mail for the magic protection). a couple concerns tho: the only altar i've ever found was in minetown and it was no coaligned so i couldn't sacrifice on it. not a huge biggie (esp since i already have an endgame weapon) but it has come up as a problem a few times - particular re blessing water to get holy water (so i can dip some stuff - including a cursed tanning kit i got off bones). i did briefly find another unprotected altar, but i got to it by hitting a level teleport and then once i saw it, my very next step hit another level teleport and i haven't seen it again.

also - practically no stores! i've got something like 20k gold sitting in my bag of holding (along with a slew of identified wands and scrolls) and i've only run into 2 stores outside Minetown, and all the Minetown stores and those stores had basically nothing worth buying. i wonder if i can possibly run into anymore stores this far down in the dungeon. if not, maybe i should just stash all my gold somewhere. idk. i've never gotten this far, so if you guys have any advice, i'm very receptive. i'd hate for my char to die, but i know that i'm not ready for Gehinnim and below (for one, i should probably find a ring of levitation in the very near future).

you're hitting the same 'remember these two things from spoilers' bit that i always did (dipping a longsword, wishing for gray scale mail) so probably beyond any point where i can offer actual advice

My eyes are hazy and I read "ring of levitation" as "ring of television". Sounds like you've got lots of things to do before Gehennom?

i guess- i'm at the point in the game where i don't know what happens next, and far down enough where the general netbook advice doesn't really help. i've killed 2 liches + a mind flayer (elbereth + wands of striking/fire/lightning), and i've got a ton of resistances, tho i'm not positive which ones i'm missing. i'm putting my ascension kit together tho!

q: is the best use for my blank scrolls + magic markers making enchant armor scrolls?

Ohhhh you're doing Elbereth? Oh my god Nethack is the cruelest. Make sure you bless that magic marker iirc

elbereth is some straight up bullshit imo, one of the things i never liked about nethack was having 'cheats' built into the game like that which required spoilers

especially since you pretty much have to use them to have a chance

I'd forgotten about Elbereth that is straight up irritating but yeah I used it on my winning character too

i tried to resist using it until i learned about it in game somehow, but when facing off against a lich + mind slayer, having gotten farther along than ever before, i sac'd my principles on the altar of winning. i don't regret it.

and i'd love to bless my magic marker but i need to find an altar first so i can make some holy water!

you don't necessarily want to bless your magic marker because you wouldn't be able to write cursed scrolls (there are some benefits to them). best to keep it uncursed and bless/unbless blank scrolls as needed.

if you've hit a place where you can't spend your money anymore (no more shops), you should consider donating some to a temple. priests in temples look kindly on donations. there isn't much point in carrying it around after that, so stash it somewhere safe. it will weigh you down so that you can't carry other better stuff.

level 15 dwarven valkyrie - in the end i had a cloak of displacement, an amulet of reflection, the quest orb, a bag of holding, an excalibur +4, some boots of speed, a ton of wands, scrolls, etc. i had everything! (almost) but no ring of levitation. which meant that after i used wand of digging to skip medusa, that meant i couldn't backtrack from that point, and then i quickly hit the Castle - fell through a trap door - and died fending out a million crazy lichs, dragons, mind eaters, vampires, disenchanters, etc in Gehennom 1: level 27.

Resistances: Fire, cold, sleep, shock, poison, level-drain. I was warned, automatic searching, infravision, stealthy, regenerated, very fast, reflection, lucky, extra luck, and good luck did not time out for me.

I vanquished 1580 creatures. I used no wishes.

gg, taking a break for a few days.

my lesson from this: ring of levitation is essential

that ring is worth a wish.

trust me, if i had found a wish i would've used it on that ring!

ironically, isn't there a guaranteed wand of wishing in the castle if you hadn't fallen down the trapdoor?

...yes

i'll lick this thing yet!

i'll lick lich this thing yet!

Mordy I'm not going to broken-record this on the Nethack thread but please try ADOM for a moment it's unbearable to read about the unfairness and insanity of Nethack, this is the last time I'll say it I promise.

Yeah, adom is good.

i can't help but feel like moving on from nethack without beating it first is a huge copout, but i'll check out adom

drowned in a moat by a water eel

sorry i have still not played ATOM but i would like to say

NETHACK IS THE MOST ADDICTIVE GREATEST FUCKING GAME OF ALL TIME

that is all thx for ur time etc

i just got to level 11 in brogue before dying. gonna delete now, before life passes me by.

ring of slow digestion really changes the game -- suddenly you can backtrack all you want w/out fear of running out of food

hey soda that is probably way further than i got before i deleted. read some "i won!" accounts and you'll be glad you did, that game just gets harder and harder. pretty, tho!

yeah roguelikes are super-addictive, probably the most addictive. i'm playing skyrim an hour a day these days and it feels way addictive but it wouldn't keep me awake all night the way nethack/adom/moria has done

I always get killed by a swarm of monsters in the damn gnomish mines.

anybody have success running ADOM on osx/leopard?